Now I Understand what the Dev's meant by Exploration/Adventure.

MycroftCanadaNSMycroftCanadaNS Halifax Join Date: 2014-11-01 Member: 199263Members Posts: 302 Advanced user
Hi.

When the game first came out I was very hung up on survival meaning I wanted to have the game be like everything else out there which wasn't right for me to be asking.

What brought me around was a game I came across today called "PE" (I won't give the actual name), and this game is very similar (Exploration & Adventure) to Subnautica. As I started to play PE I began to see what the developers (Unknown Worlds) meant, and how they didn't want to go all out on the survival aspects of the game. Sure you need to Eat, drink every once in awhile, and bandage wounds but that shouldn't be what drives the game.

As I played PE, I spent less time worrying about eating, drinking & sleeping, instead I roamed around, and I started to colonize the planet, and build some incredible things which is what turned me around on Subnautica.

I apologize Dev's, I now see where you were coming from, and you are right.
Post edited by MycroftCanadaNS on
Al Swearengen: Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair or beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.

Comments

  • LachdananLachdanan Join Date: 2003-06-04 Member: 16995Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Onos Posts: 92 Advanced user
  • MycroftCanadaNSMycroftCanadaNS Halifax Join Date: 2014-11-01 Member: 199263Members Posts: 302 Advanced user
    edited November 2014
    Lachdanan wrote: »
    Incase anyone was wondering:
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=qjBgHP_2HPc

    Haaaa, that isn't the game I was speaking about.
    Al Swearengen: Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair or beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
  • zetachronzetachron Germany Join Date: 2014-11-14 Member: 199655Members Posts: 1,189 Advanced user
    I assume you mean Planet Explorers, because it's hard to talk with another if you don't know what someone is talking about.

    It has a big size to explore with lots of diversity. Crafting. NPCs with Dialog. Haven't played it much though, because of less good movement and sight controls. So can't talk much about it and don't even know if it's your PE.

    Generally I'd say that the world size tied to diversity matters much for exploration fun. Underwater you don't have streets or blocked passages though. Thus caverns, pressure and currents have to replace the surface obstacles or streets.
  • MycroftCanadaNSMycroftCanadaNS Halifax Join Date: 2014-11-01 Member: 199263Members Posts: 302 Advanced user
    zetachron wrote: »
    I assume you mean Planet Explorers, because it's hard to talk with another if you don't know what someone is talking about.

    It has a big size to explore with lots of diversity. Crafting. NPCs with Dialog. Haven't played it much though, because of less good movement and sight controls. So can't talk much about it and don't even know if it's your PE.

    Generally I'd say that the world size tied to diversity matters much for exploration fun. Underwater you don't have streets or blocked passages though. Thus caverns, pressure and currents have to replace the surface obstacles or streets.

    You are right, it is Planet Explorers. PE doesn't rely heavily on survival aspects so much as they do for exploring which is why I finally understand where the developers are coming from for Subnautica.

    The only similarities between these two games is the exploration, and adventure angle only.
    Al Swearengen: Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair or beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
  • NairitNairit NJ, USA Join Date: 2014-11-10 Member: 199589Members Posts: 48
    Well, i've been saying for awhile that survival should take a back seat to Exploration (I think we even traded arguments about that Mycroft ;) ). Of course I've been playing Planet Explorers for a while. ;)

    There other examples though, consider for instance Fallout: New Vegas. I always play in hardcore mode - which means hunger, thirst, sleep deprivation, no instant healing and few other elements. Those survival elements do enhance the experience, however it's exploration of the wasteland and adventure that make the game.

    P.S. For the open world exploration focused game you might also want to check No Man's Sky (PC version recently announced)
  • MycroftCanadaNSMycroftCanadaNS Halifax Join Date: 2014-11-01 Member: 199263Members Posts: 302 Advanced user
    edited November 2014
    Nairit wrote: »
    Well, i've been saying for awhile that survival should take a back seat to Exploration (I think we even traded arguments about that Mycroft ;) ). Of course I've been playing Planet Explorers for a while. ;)

    I believe we may have, and you are right, it should be in the background. :)
    There other examples though, consider for instance Fallout: New Vegas. I always play in hardcore mode - which means hunger, thirst, sleep deprivation, no instant healing and few other elements. Those survival elements do enhance the experience, however it's exploration of the wasteland and adventure that make the game.

    I'm with you on that, and it works great in the New Vegas. (Hardcore always)
    P.S. For the open world exploration focused game you might also want to check No Man's Sky (PC version recently announced)

    Thanks, I'll take a look at it.

    -- EDIT --

    Now that games looks very interesting....

    Thanks Nairit! :)
    Al Swearengen: Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair or beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
  • zetachronzetachron Germany Join Date: 2014-11-14 Member: 199655Members Posts: 1,189 Advanced user
    As I told somewhere else, survival is best used in context with its according environment.

    In Skyrim or the Long Dark with its winter setting, I would center survival on the most dangerous things there. That's food, temperature, blizzards, etc. but for example no thirst. In a desert environment like Fallout or Wasteland the primary dangers would be thirst, radiation and sandstorms. In Subnautica, diving on an alien water planet I would suspect primarily oxygen, pressure and currents. In all environments you can add specialized lifeforms and predators as dangers. I would call this survival part a natural one.

    Food and water are simply general survival needs in a standart barren environment. People who hear survival will expect hunger and thirst. You can ignore food in a desert game and still feel right. You might ignore thirst in a snowy game. But when you decide to bring in thirst or hunger in an underwater game, where it's only secondary need, than it might be better to have both for better immersion.

    Secondary needs can be hunger and thirst and surely sleep or disposal problems of all kind are secondary. Which means that if you bring them in, most players will get annoyed if there is no play value added.

    A value for hunger could be physical fitness (stamina). Working harder and moving faster with the body uses up more nutrients (food and water), while sleeping uses up less. Sleeping could make sense if you only want to dive at certain daytimes or use mind concentration to punish the player for actions, like blackouts after a day without sleep, research times increasing without sleep, reduced swimming speed of being tired, etc.

    But even with the best play value for each need, it gets a pain if you have to decide between harvesting for survival and exploration. And harvesting only gets a problem if the frequency is too high. Survivalists cry to harvest, while explorers hate harvesting, so I think customization is essential. Either two modes for two extremes or a dynamic slider ranging from survivalist towards explorer with explorer being the standart.

    I think event or awareness based survivals like predators, currents, etc. don't conflict with exploration but rather add exploration thrill. Turning around or reducing speed like it's necessary with refilling oxygen, pressure compensation or sleeping might add stress for explorers, but I think far less than harvesting the same things over and over again just to consume them.
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue Posts: 4,268 Advanced user
    edited November 2014
    I'd absolutely expect things like swimming to use up more energy, so drain your energy faster, then, when you have made sea glides and sea moths, the energy required for movement is greatly reduced etc.

    As swimming would use extra oxygen and energy. Initially, food and metaol for tanks etc would be the priority, until you had enough to get a sea glide. This then reduces food requirements or enables you to expand your range for new sources of food.

    For me, the most interesting aspect will be when you eventually get vehicles that have their own oxygen supply, then personal oxygen management becomes less relevant. That way the longer you play the game, the simpler it becomes.

    Different types of diving suit could also benefit players in different ways.
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  • zetachronzetachron Germany Join Date: 2014-11-14 Member: 199655Members Posts: 1,189 Advanced user
    Soul_Rider wrote: »
    I'd absolutely expect things like swimming to use up more energy, so drain your energy faster, then, when you have made sea glides and sea moths, the energy required for movement is greatly reduced etc.

    As swimming would use extra oxygen and energy. Initially, food and metaol for tanks etc would be the priority, until you had enough to get a sea glide. This then reduces food requirements or enables you to expand your range for new sources of food.

    For me, the most interesting aspect will be when you eventually get vehicles that have their own oxygen supply, then personal oxygen management becomes less relevant. That way the longer you play the game, the simpler it becomes.

    Different types of diving suit could also benefit players in different ways.

    As soon as you replace human energy with machines and diving in subs relieving you from oxygen needs, your main problem will be energy feeding.

    If you do battery harvesting it will get utterly boring and soon you'll find that it stops you from exploring even more than the search for simple food.

    So in the end you have to explore and search for long lasting energy sources in the ocean. Than research and build tools to construct a energy harvesting platform. You start searching the different depths for farming stations getting deeper and deeper until finally deep in the abyssal ocean you set up geothermal substations to harvest most ingredients for long lasting planetary habitation and energy use.

    Then again in the abyssal depths you have to use the exosuit to repair your station after an earthquake. Oxygen will come into game again. And thinking about it, everywhere you repair hulls from the outside in general. So oxygen will never really leave you, unless you avoid outside repairs.
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