I'd go for a votekick option with just some time for the kicked player to cool down before rejoining. No voteban option.
First votekick is just a kick. This is almost always enough and often does not need a cooldown, such as for AFKs or crashed players. In many cases it's not even desirable.
But if the player rejoins and get kicked again, which personally I have never witnessed, then "ban" for just enough time to deter a troll. Just 5 minutes should be enough to make it just too much work to keep rejoining that server to troll for a minute and not too much of a bother for the players to keep kicking if needed. With such short timers nothing needs to be persistent between map changes or server restarts either, as no one would notice a difference anyway.
Optionally the server keeps track of the name the kicked player had in addition to the SteamID and force it to be used on rejoin, if you want to get fancy. This too will simply be thrown away at a map change, so a kicked players nick won't be locked for longer than that.
I still feel like 15 - 30 minutes is just a slap on the wrist. The ban should at least be for an amount of time that would almost guarantee that the troll can't come back during the same match. 45 min - an hour maybe... and I still don't think 24 hrs is very severe if you're severely trolling. Meh.
I know some of the trolls I've seen would have no problem counting fifteen min then rejoining.
I feel we need to clarify something here - when we talk about voteban, are we talking about voting about a permanent ban or a temporary one?
Because when I say "voteban" I mean this as opposed to "votekick": A temporary ban (15 minutes or sth.) to get rid of the player for the session, whereas "votekick" does not hinder them to just rejoin.
If there is no distinguation, "votekick" should have a temporary "ban", anyway, because clearly, the current system does not work as well as it could.
I'm bringing this up because some people, like @Ots for example, seem to mistake "voteban" for permanent voted ban, and I think no one here wants that. Right?
So "voteban + votekick" or "votekick with attached ban" please yes, "vote permanent ban" please no.
I'm not mistaking it for a permanent ban, that's how it was back in the day as well.
But yes, it is important to distinquish the difference, votekick should disable you from joining the server, effectively banning you from the server for a certain amount of time, as currently it's completely useless mechanic with how small the community is. A troll can just rejoin the server and keep being an asshole. As such there shouldn't be a voteban option however, cause that would just give too much power to the players, as a lot of people just vote yes for kicks, or just for being assholes themselves. Banning "good players" or just those they dont like for w/e childish reason.
You would essentially choose the lesser evil, would you add a short ban 15-60min to votekick, to make sure people cant abuse others forever. Or do you trust everyone to be able to vote correctly and add a voteban option. I'd say votekick with a temporary ban seems a better solution, we can't have admins around all the time anyways.
Vote ban is dangerous. Sometimes I play on the terrible combat servers to warm up after not playing for a few days yet I can get kicked for pub stomping there due to the low quality of players overall, it's rare but I've seen it happen so the question is: are the pros of a voteban feature enough to warrant the inclusion while also considering the cons?
Take this situation:
- A troll on a server who actually wants to abuse the feature
- Initiates a vote ban on the commander who might be someone who doesn't talk much or communicate in chat, perhaps he misses the vote
- Troll says in chat, "troll commander, please vote, he's done this before"
- Conformity to voting results in a high amount of people voting for a ban
- The vote succeeds, troll jumps in the chair and does the usual trollish stuff like recycling IPs and generally screwing up the games
- Leaves server or stays in the server, changes name, repeats the process or does the usual commander troll stuff
- At this point you run into the problem of deciding how many people are required to initiate a ban, 75% of the server is pretty much impossible for most servers, 50% is probably too low for such a punishment which could be abused.
Vote kick with timeout is probably best as others have mentioned that exponentially gets longer but even this can be abused easily when lesser players vote kick better players like on combat servers where there might be only 1-2 up at any time. At most, I think the vote kick timeout should be 1hour max, trolls usually get bored at that point and move on, they can rejoin and if they get kicked again, keep at at 1hour.
I'm not mistaking it for a permanent ban, that's how it was back in the day as well.
But yes, it is important to distinquish the difference, votekick should disable you from joining the server, effectively banning you from the server for a certain amount of time, as currently it's completely useless mechanic with how small the community is. A troll can just rejoin the server and keep being an asshole. As such there shouldn't be a voteban option however, cause that would just give too much power to the players, as a lot of people just vote yes for kicks, or just for being assholes themselves. Banning "good players" or just those they dont like for w/e childish reason.
You would essentially choose the lesser evil, would you add a short ban 15-60min to votekick, to make sure people cant abuse others forever. Or do you trust everyone to be able to vote correctly and add a voteban option. I'd say votekick with a temporary ban seems a better solution, we can't have admins around all the time anyways.
Vote ban is dangerous. Sometimes I play on the terrible combat servers to warm up after not playing for a few days yet I can get kicked for pub stomping there due to the low quality of players overall, it's rare but I've seen it happen so the question is: are the pros of a voteban feature enough to warrant the inclusion while also considering the cons?
Take this situation:
- A troll on a server who actually wants to abuse the feature
- Initiates a vote ban on the commander who might be someone who doesn't talk much or communicate in chat, perhaps he misses the vote
- Troll says in chat, "troll commander, please vote, he's done this before"
- Conformity to voting results in a high amount of people voting for a ban
- The vote succeeds, troll jumps in the chair and does the usual trollish stuff like recycling IPs and generally screwing up the games
- Leaves server or stays in the server, changes name, repeats the process or does the usual commander troll stuff
- At this point you run into the problem of deciding how many people are required to initiate a ban, 75% of the server is pretty much impossible for most servers, 50% is probably too low for such a punishment which could be abused.
Vote kick with timeout is probably best as others have mentioned that exponentially gets longer but even this can be abused easily when lesser players vote kick better players like on combat servers where there might be only 1-2 up at any time. At most, I think the vote kick timeout should be 1hour max, trolls usually get bored at that point and move on, they can rejoin and if they get kicked again, keep at at 1hour.
Can we please agree on some consistent terminology here?
A like the idea of a VoteTempBan. 30 minutes or so should be enough to keep the peace, sorta speak. Trolls who really want to troll will just keep rejoining. A TempBan would send them on their way. If that comes from a VoteKick 3 times, or a: VoteKick 1-2 times, then the option to VoteTempBan is "unlocked", both work imo.
A like the idea of a VoteTempBan. 30 minutes or so should be enough to keep the peace, sorta speak. Trolls who really want to troll will just keep rejoining. A TempBan would send them on their way. If that comes from a VoteKick 3 times, or a: VoteKick 1-2 times, then the option to VoteTempBan is "unlocked", both work imo.
So to get rid of an annoying player for good, we have to come up with the necessary votes several times? And when does the necessary period unitl voteban expire?
A like the idea of a VoteTempBan. 30 minutes or so should be enough to keep the peace, sorta speak. Trolls who really want to troll will just keep rejoining. A TempBan would send them on their way. If that comes from a VoteKick 3 times, or a: VoteKick 1-2 times, then the option to VoteTempBan is "unlocked", both work imo.
So to get rid of an annoying player for good, we have to come up with the necessary votes several times? And when does the necessary period unitl voteban expire?
Keep it simple.
Ok so how about this... make it by map.
First vote during a map = A regular kick as it is now, they can rejoin instantly.
Second vote kick during the same map = A "cool down" time of anywhere from 1-5 minutes before they can rejoin.
Third vote kick during the same map = Extend the "cool down" time to like 10-15 minutes.
Any following vote kicks during the same map = Another "cool down" time of like 10-15 minutes.
Then have it reset with the map change. Simple.
I honestly don't really see how something like this could be abused unless the server was full of trolls... and then who really wants to play there anyway you know. Hell I've been kicked for no reason before, and I just happily moved on to another server.
Also just for final clarification, we are NOT talking about any kind of permanent ban... Temporary only!
I was basing that off of the old ideas since everyone seems to have gotten confused at some point, that the idea was a tempban not a perm ban. Easy enough to add another "vote" that just says vote temp ban. Time limit or map change.
If people on here are having a hard time figuring it out, do you think it will work in a server with no forum members playing? Vote-kick can be trolled already. And people love the f1 button, as said before.
Meh, was gonna say more but I think it's mostly covered.
Seriously, it's rare that I see the mindless f1. Usually unless the person gives a reason for the kick like afk or recycled base, most people won't vote at all.
Seriously, it's rare that I see the mindless f1. Usually unless the person gives a reason for the kick like afk or recycled base, most people won't vote at all.
If a troll vote bans and tells everyone on the server that another player is being a troll, he has a chance to get that person to be banned.
Vote to ban (or # kicked to be unbanned)
People either vote ignorantly or
"Why ban?"
Troll- "he's trolling!"
Everyone on other team - "how?"
Troll - a random lie is given
The "troll" in question can only type to the other team, trying to plead their case while people vote
The "troll" (who was never a troll) gets banned or
People start spamming ban for the real troll.
Cycle can continue all day.
It happens enough with kicks. I already know of the aforementioned "kidmins", and that is bad enough. Add a group of people that could have grudges or have no idea why they vote yes (besides trusting what someone said on the other team), and the entire server becomes "kidmins", with a portion of the admins powers.
Unless they're not told, votes usually pass on most servers given that half the players aren't AFK. It's harder to initiate a vote half way through a game absolutely but it is possible which can still leave a voteban type feature to be abused. Try to vote kick someone (preferably if their AFK as this might be a bit unfair), type in chat "AFK" or "troll comm" and its very likely that if its not filled with rookies, the vote will pass but if you don't display why you started a vote, most people won't vote for it or even realize its there. You can also implicitly make people vote by simply reminding them that it exists. "F1 guys, lets play veil" which will likely get you a lot more people to do so and if you can do the same for a voteban feature that could get abused, you might have problems.
This is off-topic but I'd actually like a comment added to vote kicks like they do in WoW. Usually it's done by right clicking someones name/portrait/unitbar, vote kick option, a little box appears that displays "Please type in your reason to initiate a vote kick" with an empty box that allows you to give a reason why. This could be useful for NS2 because the only way you can rally enough people is to type it out in chat and some people somewhat refuse to do so which ends up in a wasted vote. Somehow I think something like this might be too consuming to add, just a minor QoL thing really.
A like the idea of a VoteTempBan. 30 minutes or so should be enough to keep the peace, sorta speak. Trolls who really want to troll will just keep rejoining. A TempBan would send them on their way. If that comes from a VoteKick 3 times, or a: VoteKick 1-2 times, then the option to VoteTempBan is "unlocked", both work imo.
So to get rid of an annoying player for good, we have to come up with the necessary votes several times? And when does the necessary period unitl voteban expire?
Keep it simple.
Well I don't think we necessarily need to keep it simple. WoWs vote kick feature is so bloody confusing that it boggles my mind sometimes but it serves its function most of the time despite people not knowing how it truly works. I'd say, make the cooldown 3hours. If you get kicked, banned for 1 hour and rejoin an hour later and don't get banned for the next 2 hours then I think its pretty safe. Like I said, trolls usually get bored at that point and find another server or game.
How I would do a vote kick timeout:
- kicked once, no ban
- kicked twice within 3 hours, 15 minute ban
- Kicked three times within 3 hours, 1 hour ban
- Kicked four times within 3 hours, 1 hour ban again and at this point, the troll must be the most patient troll in existence
I don't think there would be a perfect system but just my idea on the subject. Ideally we would have admins who actually care about their servers and communities enough to frequently play or make frequent and valuable server regulars admins. Luckily, most servers have these admins in place and I've even reported a few myself and got them banned permanently.
Seriously, it's rare that I see the mindless f1. Usually unless the person gives a reason for the kick like afk or recycled base, most people won't vote at all.
My scenario showed that a troll, or a couple of trolls, could give a random reason (like the ligitimate ones you mentioned), to try and vote ban someone. People already have the trigger-finger to kick if given any reason (true or not).
There are just too many ways to make this get out of hand. If someone happens to get a faulty ban (even easier when seeding), they probably won't join that server again. New people could just quit. I guess we can disagree because we must play on different servers and experience different atmospheres.
Seriously, it's rare that I see the mindless f1. Usually unless the person gives a reason for the kick like afk or recycled base, most people won't vote at all.
I wish to add that it would be great if vote kick, ban, changemap should be auto off (or as an option to set on the server configs) if AN ADMIN IS ON THE SERVER...
A like the idea of a VoteTempBan. 30 minutes or so should be enough to keep the peace, sorta speak. Trolls who really want to troll will just keep rejoining. A TempBan would send them on their way. If that comes from a VoteKick 3 times, or a: VoteKick 1-2 times, then the option to VoteTempBan is "unlocked", both work imo.
So to get rid of an annoying player for good, we have to come up with the necessary votes several times? And when does the necessary period unitl voteban expire?
Keep it simple.
Well I don't think we necessarily need to keep it simple.
And this is already where I disagree with you, not only with votes, but with life in general.
I think now that the CDT is aware of this issue, they will come up with a satisfactory solution. One person sitting down and thinking about it for a while - using common sense - is way better than any random brainstorming we can come up here, anyway.
I would like to add that in my whole ns2 career, I've seen vote abuse about twice. On European servers, that is. One time the actual troll was quickly dealt with, the other time I just left the server after a while. Which is a perfectly valid way of dealing with this sort of thing, too.
My scenario showed that a troll, or a couple of trolls, could give a random reason (like the ligitimate ones you mentioned), to try and vote ban someone. People already have the trigger-finger to kick if given any reason (true or not).
Again, I never said I wanted a vote ban, and I think the consensus here is that nobody really does. A kick w/ a temp ban is all, and that's really not an extreme punishment. Like @F0rdPrefect said, in my roughly 1400 hrs, I've seen people get kicked who shouldn't have maybe 2 - 3 times. So yeah, I guess we don't play on the same servers. Also, I've seen your scenario being TRIED to be carried out... maybe a few times, but never successful because usually someone will chime in w/ an "f2, trollvote." So yea, I agree that every now and again, I see a troll vote, but very rarely has it passed, in my experience at least. And if you guys are really seein the mindless f1 "all the time," then I wonder what ass hat of vets you all play with because those are things nubs do.
A like the idea of a VoteTempBan. 30 minutes or so should be enough to keep the peace, sorta speak. Trolls who really want to troll will just keep rejoining. A TempBan would send them on their way. If that comes from a VoteKick 3 times, or a: VoteKick 1-2 times, then the option to VoteTempBan is "unlocked", both work imo.
So to get rid of an annoying player for good, we have to come up with the necessary votes several times? And when does the necessary period unitl voteban expire?
Keep it simple.
Well I don't think we necessarily need to keep it simple.
And this is already where I disagree with you, not only with votes, but with life in general.
I think now that the CDT is aware of this issue, they will come up with a satisfactory solution. One person sitting down and thinking about it for a while - using common sense - is way better than any random brainstorming we can come up here, anyway.
I would like to add that in my whole ns2 career, I've seen vote abuse about twice. On European servers, that is. One time the actual troll was quickly dealt with, the other time I just left the server after a while. Which is a perfectly valid way of dealing with this sort of thing, too.
I guess we have to agree to disagree then, my viewpoint on keeping it simple isn't something I would find necessary, the only applicable matter is whether or not it serves its function adequately.
I could argue that because the community is so small, players become more recognised and as a result, server abuse has much greater potential repercussions involving permanent bans (not many servers left). However also, abusing a vote kick isn't really something that has any real effect because someone can just rejoin instantly so why bother to try it if you can just troll by jumping in the comm chair which is both much easier and much more effective. At this point, most people who would want to troll have already done it and moved on or been banned enough to give up which brings me to my next point.
While a vote temp ban is an interesting idea, I don't think it's necessary. I would agree with you that I don't see too much trolling or abuse myself in spades (last time was the 2013 humble bundle) which is why even though its sparked some interesting viewpoints, it's largely irrelevant. Most server communities have admins in place and if they don't, get involved with the community and add them to friends or join a group.
I stated that vote abuse was very rare, I've been kicked maybe twice by voting for pub stomping on a combat server but I don't know what would happen if a vote ban was initiated, I only know what COULD happen.
My question is: is this really required with such a tight community of players?
okay.
We need a vote kick that kicks the user and adds a temporary rejoin ban.
we do not need a vote ban that results in permanent ban.
Sorry, I was on my way out the door when I posted previously. If you check Trello, I proposed creating a Temporary Vote Ban option. Not a permanent voteban. I completely agree with you, that should be left up to server administrators, end of story.
The more I thought about it, I don't like the idea of attaching a rejoin ban on votekicks. Players will get kicked for being AFK, being too high skilled, being too low skilled, etc. If you're just trying to remove someone from the server, you shouldn't also be voting to keep them away from the server. A kick and a temporary ban are two different things, they should have two different options.
I am in no way proposing that players have the option to permanently ban someone. Ever.
I do agree that there is the potential for trolls to use it, but I don't feel that it would be rampant. It would be hella frustrating if it happened to you, but you'd only be removed for what, 15-30 minutes? And while anyone can initiate a vote, I really don't think that the majority of players would just mindlessly F1 for a voteban that was started by a troll. I've had enough games ruined by people trolling that I feel it's an issue that needs addressed.
There's some ideas in here that I'm not sure how possible it would really be to use them. How do we keep track of a player getting votekicked between servers? Or even on that singular server? I don't know how the game handles kicks and if it keeps a log of it. I'm also not sure how it would handle it with servers that have reserved slots. I think that simplicity is best in this case.
Hmm I really think the rejoin ban is the whole point here, though. Not after the first kick, just to clarify. So say someone is afk and they get kicked, once they come back, they can freely rejoin. If they're repeatedly going afk and get kicked again, what's the harm in keeping that player out til map change or something? And just have it based like map to map? So like, kicked twice before server rotates maps, auto temp ban til map change?
Clearly they're not joined up to make an impact on their team if they're just taking up a slot then going afk (border-line trolling anyways, isn't that what we're trying to deter?), so why not keep em out til they're ready to sit down and be a productive teammate?
Comments
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Temporary voteban/votekick with timeout period should not be much of an issue. As Decoy pointed out, most other games have it already.
First votekick is just a kick. This is almost always enough and often does not need a cooldown, such as for AFKs or crashed players. In many cases it's not even desirable.
But if the player rejoins and get kicked again, which personally I have never witnessed, then "ban" for just enough time to deter a troll. Just 5 minutes should be enough to make it just too much work to keep rejoining that server to troll for a minute and not too much of a bother for the players to keep kicking if needed. With such short timers nothing needs to be persistent between map changes or server restarts either, as no one would notice a difference anyway.
Optionally the server keeps track of the name the kicked player had in addition to the SteamID and force it to be used on rejoin, if you want to get fancy. This too will simply be thrown away at a map change, so a kicked players nick won't be locked for longer than that.
I know some of the trolls I've seen would have no problem counting fifteen min then rejoining.
EDIT: Maybe ban lasts til map changes?
Because when I say "voteban" I mean this as opposed to "votekick": A temporary ban (15 minutes or sth.) to get rid of the player for the session, whereas "votekick" does not hinder them to just rejoin.
If there is no distinguation, "votekick" should have a temporary "ban", anyway, because clearly, the current system does not work as well as it could.
I'm bringing this up because some people, like @Ots for example, seem to mistake "voteban" for permanent voted ban, and I think no one here wants that. Right?
So "voteban + votekick" or "votekick with attached ban" please yes, "vote permanent ban" please no.
But yes, it is important to distinquish the difference, votekick should disable you from joining the server, effectively banning you from the server for a certain amount of time, as currently it's completely useless mechanic with how small the community is. A troll can just rejoin the server and keep being an asshole. As such there shouldn't be a voteban option however, cause that would just give too much power to the players, as a lot of people just vote yes for kicks, or just for being assholes themselves. Banning "good players" or just those they dont like for w/e childish reason.
You would essentially choose the lesser evil, would you add a short ban 15-60min to votekick, to make sure people cant abuse others forever. Or do you trust everyone to be able to vote correctly and add a voteban option. I'd say votekick with a temporary ban seems a better solution, we can't have admins around all the time anyways.
no? The votekick should just prohibit the kickee from rejoining the server until a predetermined time has elapsed (10, 15, 30 minutes, etc...)
Leave permanent ban to admins only.
Take this situation:
- A troll on a server who actually wants to abuse the feature
- Initiates a vote ban on the commander who might be someone who doesn't talk much or communicate in chat, perhaps he misses the vote
- Troll says in chat, "troll commander, please vote, he's done this before"
- Conformity to voting results in a high amount of people voting for a ban
- The vote succeeds, troll jumps in the chair and does the usual trollish stuff like recycling IPs and generally screwing up the games
- Leaves server or stays in the server, changes name, repeats the process or does the usual commander troll stuff
- At this point you run into the problem of deciding how many people are required to initiate a ban, 75% of the server is pretty much impossible for most servers, 50% is probably too low for such a punishment which could be abused.
Vote kick with timeout is probably best as others have mentioned that exponentially gets longer but even this can be abused easily when lesser players vote kick better players like on combat servers where there might be only 1-2 up at any time. At most, I think the vote kick timeout should be 1hour max, trolls usually get bored at that point and move on, they can rejoin and if they get kicked again, keep at at 1hour.
Can we please agree on some consistent terminology here?
We need a vote kick that kicks the user and adds a temporary rejoin ban.
we do not need a vote ban that results in permanent ban.
Nice summary.
So to get rid of an annoying player for good, we have to come up with the necessary votes several times? And when does the necessary period unitl voteban expire?
Keep it simple.
Ok so how about this... make it by map.
First vote during a map = A regular kick as it is now, they can rejoin instantly.
Second vote kick during the same map = A "cool down" time of anywhere from 1-5 minutes before they can rejoin.
Third vote kick during the same map = Extend the "cool down" time to like 10-15 minutes.
Any following vote kicks during the same map = Another "cool down" time of like 10-15 minutes.
Then have it reset with the map change. Simple.
I honestly don't really see how something like this could be abused unless the server was full of trolls... and then who really wants to play there anyway you know. Hell I've been kicked for no reason before, and I just happily moved on to another server.
Also just for final clarification, we are NOT talking about any kind of permanent ban... Temporary only!
Meh, was gonna say more but I think it's mostly covered.
If a troll vote bans and tells everyone on the server that another player is being a troll, he has a chance to get that person to be banned.
Vote to ban (or # kicked to be unbanned)
People either vote ignorantly or
"Why ban?"
Troll- "he's trolling!"
Everyone on other team - "how?"
Troll - a random lie is given
The "troll" in question can only type to the other team, trying to plead their case while people vote
The "troll" (who was never a troll) gets banned or
People start spamming ban for the real troll.
Cycle can continue all day.
It happens enough with kicks. I already know of the aforementioned "kidmins", and that is bad enough. Add a group of people that could have grudges or have no idea why they vote yes (besides trusting what someone said on the other team), and the entire server becomes "kidmins", with a portion of the admins powers.
Edit - missing words lol
This is off-topic but I'd actually like a comment added to vote kicks like they do in WoW. Usually it's done by right clicking someones name/portrait/unitbar, vote kick option, a little box appears that displays "Please type in your reason to initiate a vote kick" with an empty box that allows you to give a reason why. This could be useful for NS2 because the only way you can rally enough people is to type it out in chat and some people somewhat refuse to do so which ends up in a wasted vote. Somehow I think something like this might be too consuming to add, just a minor QoL thing really.
Well I don't think we necessarily need to keep it simple. WoWs vote kick feature is so bloody confusing that it boggles my mind sometimes but it serves its function most of the time despite people not knowing how it truly works. I'd say, make the cooldown 3hours. If you get kicked, banned for 1 hour and rejoin an hour later and don't get banned for the next 2 hours then I think its pretty safe. Like I said, trolls usually get bored at that point and find another server or game.
How I would do a vote kick timeout:
- kicked once, no ban
- kicked twice within 3 hours, 15 minute ban
- Kicked three times within 3 hours, 1 hour ban
- Kicked four times within 3 hours, 1 hour ban again and at this point, the troll must be the most patient troll in existence
I don't think there would be a perfect system but just my idea on the subject. Ideally we would have admins who actually care about their servers and communities enough to frequently play or make frequent and valuable server regulars admins. Luckily, most servers have these admins in place and I've even reported a few myself and got them banned permanently.
modify votemanager.lua, voting.lua, votekickplayer.lua
My scenario showed that a troll, or a couple of trolls, could give a random reason (like the ligitimate ones you mentioned), to try and vote ban someone. People already have the trigger-finger to kick if given any reason (true or not).
There are just too many ways to make this get out of hand. If someone happens to get a faulty ban (even easier when seeding), they probably won't join that server again. New people could just quit. I guess we can disagree because we must play on different servers and experience different atmospheres.
This.
And this is already where I disagree with you, not only with votes, but with life in general.
I think now that the CDT is aware of this issue, they will come up with a satisfactory solution. One person sitting down and thinking about it for a while - using common sense - is way better than any random brainstorming we can come up here, anyway.
I would like to add that in my whole ns2 career, I've seen vote abuse about twice. On European servers, that is. One time the actual troll was quickly dealt with, the other time I just left the server after a while. Which is a perfectly valid way of dealing with this sort of thing, too.
Again, I never said I wanted a vote ban, and I think the consensus here is that nobody really does. A kick w/ a temp ban is all, and that's really not an extreme punishment. Like @F0rdPrefect said, in my roughly 1400 hrs, I've seen people get kicked who shouldn't have maybe 2 - 3 times. So yeah, I guess we don't play on the same servers. Also, I've seen your scenario being TRIED to be carried out... maybe a few times, but never successful because usually someone will chime in w/ an "f2, trollvote." So yea, I agree that every now and again, I see a troll vote, but very rarely has it passed, in my experience at least. And if you guys are really seein the mindless f1 "all the time," then I wonder what ass hat of vets you all play with because those are things nubs do.
I guess we have to agree to disagree then, my viewpoint on keeping it simple isn't something I would find necessary, the only applicable matter is whether or not it serves its function adequately.
I could argue that because the community is so small, players become more recognised and as a result, server abuse has much greater potential repercussions involving permanent bans (not many servers left). However also, abusing a vote kick isn't really something that has any real effect because someone can just rejoin instantly so why bother to try it if you can just troll by jumping in the comm chair which is both much easier and much more effective. At this point, most people who would want to troll have already done it and moved on or been banned enough to give up which brings me to my next point.
While a vote temp ban is an interesting idea, I don't think it's necessary. I would agree with you that I don't see too much trolling or abuse myself in spades (last time was the 2013 humble bundle) which is why even though its sparked some interesting viewpoints, it's largely irrelevant. Most server communities have admins in place and if they don't, get involved with the community and add them to friends or join a group.
I stated that vote abuse was very rare, I've been kicked maybe twice by voting for pub stomping on a combat server but I don't know what would happen if a vote ban was initiated, I only know what COULD happen.
My question is: is this really required with such a tight community of players?
Sorry, I was on my way out the door when I posted previously. If you check Trello, I proposed creating a Temporary Vote Ban option. Not a permanent voteban. I completely agree with you, that should be left up to server administrators, end of story.
The more I thought about it, I don't like the idea of attaching a rejoin ban on votekicks. Players will get kicked for being AFK, being too high skilled, being too low skilled, etc. If you're just trying to remove someone from the server, you shouldn't also be voting to keep them away from the server. A kick and a temporary ban are two different things, they should have two different options.
I am in no way proposing that players have the option to permanently ban someone. Ever.
I do agree that there is the potential for trolls to use it, but I don't feel that it would be rampant. It would be hella frustrating if it happened to you, but you'd only be removed for what, 15-30 minutes? And while anyone can initiate a vote, I really don't think that the majority of players would just mindlessly F1 for a voteban that was started by a troll. I've had enough games ruined by people trolling that I feel it's an issue that needs addressed.
There's some ideas in here that I'm not sure how possible it would really be to use them. How do we keep track of a player getting votekicked between servers? Or even on that singular server? I don't know how the game handles kicks and if it keeps a log of it. I'm also not sure how it would handle it with servers that have reserved slots. I think that simplicity is best in this case.
Clearly they're not joined up to make an impact on their team if they're just taking up a slot then going afk (border-line trolling anyways, isn't that what we're trying to deter?), so why not keep em out til they're ready to sit down and be a productive teammate?