Balanced Teams
DocZ
Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9831Members
Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9831Members
<div class="IPBDescription">We start losing...people start leaving..</div> Do you guys think there is any way we can "force" balanced teams? I'm not whining, I'm actually wondering if there is any way we could force the teams to be even if not in numbers, then in the skills of the people in the teams. Since I play alien most of the time, I have noticed that more often than not (at least on the many servers I play on), there will be a general tendency to have more people on the marines side. Now I accept this, and I try to work with that, playing with a slight handicap most of the time. I do that mainly because I know that it's normal for people to feel more comfortable with the marines side. But then if we even start showing a hint of losing, many of my alien teammates will just leave the game. This usually causes my team to be down 2 players, sometimes even 3, and sometimes just 1. But on average I have found that being down 2 players is quite common.
Don't even think of asking the marines to even the teams up a bit, you'll be called a whiner. All I'm looking for here is a fun game. I just want two evenly matched sides to just go at it and try to outwit the other side. I understand you can't stop having people leave, and that force-switching someone from a team is generally a bad idea because that player being forced to switch might have put a lot of effort building his base up if he is a marine. And so I ask if there is any way to at least have the teams in general to be a little closer in numbers. Maybe only allow having one more player than the other team? Not two as it is now? Any other suggestions?
By the way whenever I'm marine I always switch sides if doing so would even the teams.
Thanks.
Don't even think of asking the marines to even the teams up a bit, you'll be called a whiner. All I'm looking for here is a fun game. I just want two evenly matched sides to just go at it and try to outwit the other side. I understand you can't stop having people leave, and that force-switching someone from a team is generally a bad idea because that player being forced to switch might have put a lot of effort building his base up if he is a marine. And so I ask if there is any way to at least have the teams in general to be a little closer in numbers. Maybe only allow having one more player than the other team? Not two as it is now? Any other suggestions?
By the way whenever I'm marine I always switch sides if doing so would even the teams.
Thanks.
Comments
It's just downhill.
What I want to see is mandatory even teams. Noted that odd total players means one person difference. I can live with that. No 2 person advantage, because marines will always have 2 more than aliens. TRUE EVEN-NESSNESS(sp). And don't give me that "commander dosen't count" BS, because aliens have at least one Gorge. They can't be equated with active soldiers, and they don't have a nice protective Command Center to keep them alive.
A good idea would be to make a sv_true_even option for servers, that would keep it truly even. Kicking any odd players every 15 minutes (to allow for even-ness to ensue within that time). Or some adminmod thing or something... Maybe.. it's 2:44 AM here..
What about this. Right now there is a resource bonus given to the team with fewer players. What would it take to have a HP bonus given to the side with less players!
(Example) Game 10 marines vs. 5 aliens.
Aliens would get a % HP bonus for each team member
If % is 10 % they would get a bonus of 50% HP
Now you could also take it a step further and do a divide % bonus by team skill
So if the teams are uneven but the skill lever of the lesser team is higher they would get less or no HP bonus.
I'm not sure how hard it would be to put in though.
You could be mistaking more rps per alien with fewer players with this. Or am <b>I</b> mistaken and this DOES exist?
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=8&t=9915&st=15' target='_blank'>AdminMod - plugin_nsteams.amx</a>
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Maybe add this as a server variable... mp_teambalance or smth.
Not to mention, as someone said before, it'd be very annoying to be switched if you were a major player/builder for most of the round...
I'd opt for more strict joining (i.e. You can't join a team if they have even a 1-player advantage), and some kind of balancing factor when the teams are uneven...
Possibilities:
<ul>
<li>Smaller team receives extra resources proportional to their player deficit
<li>Larger team becomes "overconfident", and loses accuracy on all weapons (Long-range weapons will have a wider spread, melee weapons will miss a certain percentage of the time), based on their player advantage
<li>Larger team does less damage with each weapon
<li>Smaller team gets a general speed boost
<li>Decrease respawn wait for smaller team
</ul>
Anyway, you get the idea...
i suck in explaining... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
You could be mistaking more rps per alien with fewer players with this. Or am <b>I</b> mistaken and this DOES exist?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, this does not exist. He was merely suggesting it as a way of giving unbalaced teams an advantage.
As it is now, each resource node gives off more resources per tick with more players. I'm not sure if it's a set amount per person added, of if it decreases a bit with each person added on. That is, if one marine gets 5 RPs every 5 seconds, do two marines get 10 RPs every 5 seconds, or, say, 9 RPs every 5 seconds?
Perhaps give the same amount to both teams each tick. The team with more players has to spread it thinner to keep up with the relatively wealthy opponents.
-Ryan!
If the English language made any sense, a catastrophe would be an apostrophe with fur.
-- Doug Larson
You're right there . When I say teams normally I suppose that nobody from the wining team will change to the other team ( it depends on the part of the game , if it is in the beggining then someone normally changes) . I say : Teams!! to make known to the other team that we have less players , and that they have an advantage so if they win I don't consider that a meritous (sp) victory.
The only thing that I hate is that when I say that teams are uneven (only once) a lot of people start swearing at me saying that last time it was uneven I didn't change to their team ,and now its my turn to lose ... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
1) Make it a 1 player difference cap (can't join a team if it's already up one player)
2) Decrease player spawn time for the smaller team. If one team has some % less players than the other, I propose that percentage times 2 = % quicker they spawn. So if it's 8 on 6, the team with 6 players is 33% smaller than the team with 8, and so their spawn time should be increased by 66%, which is a little bit more than half faster. This solution would be the most effective one at creating a "virtual additional player" by guaranteeing more of that team's players will be effectively replaced in the field than the other. I know that this might seem drastic but it's really not. The fight will still be 8 on 6 in the field. All that is changed is replacement time. In other words, the smaller team ISN't 66% better, only one of its assets is.
I have given up playing the game for the time being until this issue can be redressed. I cannot remember the last game whether it be Alien or Marine (admittedly mostly alien) when I was not on a team down by at least 2 players.
I have just joined a 16 player server to discover 10 marines and 4 aliens. I mean what is the point. The argument that you are losing anyway is beside the point it should not allow the game to become so unbalanced.
Team balance issues has other knock on effects mainly that the games become stale and boring very quickly. This does not prevent the opposition from evening things up and making more of a game of it. The inteligence they would bring over would be of limited use during these moments of massive player inbalance.
The marines are hugely popular and the almost routine 2 player down on the aliens is tiresome. Couple this with increasing marine teamwork and improving commander skills it is quickly becoming an Aliens to the lions event.
I think I quite like your second idea. In fact it sounds positively fandabidozi...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I hate people who ask for people to switch sides. There is a reason your team is leaving...YOU'RE LOSING!!! Why should I have to switch from my winning team to your losing one?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Even worse is when some admin gets on and threatens to kick people if they don't change. Teams are usually even until the mop up phase when one team has clearly won and the losing team quits.
"Vote for Surrender" is a great idea.
Am glad to hear that the team is putting in team balancing features. If they're still open to suggestions, then this is what I think
1) <b>Resource bonus</b> - It is my understanding that this is already implemented... If I'm wrong, then that should read "this should have already been implemented" <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
2) <b>Respawn Speedup</b> - Nice idea, especially combined with the resource bonus, but fighting a larger team means you're more likely to be outnumbered and killed. Dying costs resource points, especially if you've spent RP upgrading / evolving, plus you respawn away from the action (in most cases), and have to spend time traversing back to it. I think a better idea is:
3) --- NEW --- <b>Armour / damage bonus</b> - This is better rounded than Respawn speedup, because it essentially evens up the fighting capability of the sides. The calculation is simple:
<!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->{armour / damage multiplier for small side} = {players on large side} / {players on small side}<!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
For example, assume a marine side of 9 players and a kharaa side of 7 players. The kharaa side would all then receive a bonus 29% to armour and damage. <!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->9 / 7= 1.29<!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
Additionally, if the developers consider the base value of a freshly spawned marine different to a freshly spawned skulk, simply multiply the number of players on each side by a points value depending on marines / kharaa. (Using same sides & 40 per marine, 50 per kharaa)
<!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->(9*40) / (7*50) = 360 / 350 = 1.03 = 3% bonus to kharaa<!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
That's by 2c.
This is often quoted by marines as the reason why the numbers should be unbalanced.
"but we have one in the command pod"
This seems a bit weak as an argument as I beleive the commander to be doing more in his pod than his troops scurrying about. Maybe this is just me but I do not downplay commanders role in making up the numbers.
although not quite on topic but what would happen with structures you created as a gorge before switching over to marine? I assume you cannot kill yourself by a offence tower you built.
boyed by all this good news of fixes I have made a triumphant return and guess what teams remained 8v8 pretty all the way through. Only problem is the game was too balanced. Cannot win em all <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->