Without proper 'hltv', demo recording or first person spectate, it's next to impossible to make frag movies. Something that has been part of fps culture since quake.
I agree with everything in your post except this. You can use Dxtory, Shadowplay, or Fraps to record footage and make frag movies, so it's definitely not next to impossible. Recorded footage has also improved in 267 because of the smoother frame rate. If you mean the lack of features for more interesting and convenient footage (third-person perspective, teammate's/enemy's perspective, free cam, etc.), then I agree that this would greatly benefit video editors and their creative drive. This can be useful for lending a cinematic mood and for creating build up toward frags.
The problem with this is also the reason why demos are so popular with filmmakers, because you don't have to worry about recording at the time or having shadowplay open at all. Demos allow you to go back, only record what you need and allow you to do it with much more flexibility.
People want to watch or Stream NS2 matches, but it is obvious that servers are spectator non-friendly, because they use precious slots. How about to implement spectator-specific or spectator-mode-only slots? So, people can watch the matches even if the server is full, spectator slots can be passworded, use reserve slots and so on, but only to spectate? I think, that spectator-restricted players consume much less server's processing power then normal players... Or I'm wrong?
I suggested this during the alpha but it never got any traction...
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
A proper server-side, full first-person-possible, slow-mo/highlighting replay is possible and desireable. Just so many more important things to do first :-/
People want to watch or Stream NS2 matches, but it is obvious that servers are spectator non-friendly, because they use precious slots. How about to implement spectator-specific or spectator-mode-only slots? So, people can watch the matches even if the server is full, spectator slots can be passworded, use reserve slots and so on, but only to spectate? I think, that spectator-restricted players consume much less server's processing power then normal players... Or I'm wrong?
I suggested this during the alpha but it never got any traction...
Without proper 'hltv', demo recording or first person spectate, it's next to impossible to make frag movies. Something that has been part of fps culture since quake.
I agree with everything in your post except this. You can use Dxtory, Shadowplay, or Fraps to record footage and make frag movies, so it's definitely not next to impossible. Recorded footage has also improved in 267 because of the smoother frame rate. If you mean the lack of features for more interesting and convenient footage (third-person perspective, teammate's/enemy's perspective, free cam, etc.), then I agree that this would greatly benefit video editors and their creative drive. This can be useful for lending a cinematic mood and for creating build up toward frags.
Yea, most frag movies are showcasing third person perspective. First person perspective is one thing, you could make decent videos I suppose with just that - but you are wrong, it's not really viable to record all of your matches. The performance decrease alone is not worth it, even in b267. Those few high level players who do stream occasionally, do so in a very low resolution, not really suited for a good frag movie imo.
I said it was next to impossible. It's not impossible, it's difficult, but I doubt you will ever be able to make one with the same quality standard as the old quake and half-life games etc. with our current tools.
Without proper 'hltv', demo recording or first person spectate, it's next to impossible to make frag movies. Something that has been part of fps culture since quake.
I agree with everything in your post except this. You can use Dxtory, Shadowplay, or Fraps to record footage and make frag movies, so it's definitely not next to impossible. Recorded footage has also improved in 267 because of the smoother frame rate. If you mean the lack of features for more interesting and convenient footage (third-person perspective, teammate's/enemy's perspective, free cam, etc.), then I agree that this would greatly benefit video editors and their creative drive. This can be useful for lending a cinematic mood and for creating build up toward frags.
Yea, most frag movies are showcasing third person perspective. First person perspective is one thing, you could make decent videos I suppose with just that - but you are wrong, it's not really viable to record all of your matches. The performance decrease alone is not worth it, even in b267. Those few high level players who do stream occasionally, do so in a very low resolution, not really suited for a good frag movie imo.
I said it was next to impossible. It's not impossible, it's difficult, but I doubt you will ever be able to make one with the same quality standard as the old quake and half-life games etc. with our current tools.
Just as in general, setup that allows you to play the game in an optimal way is usually quite far away from one that is enjoyable to look in a frag movie. For any serious fragmovie project you want to strip away half of the HUD, mute the microphone chatter, adjust a dozen settings, run different grapthics driver settings and so on. Obviously something like Shadowplay is better than nothing, but it doesn't really get anywhere close to the stuff you can do with demos.
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As for other uses of demos, I think they're huge if the community dev team wants to keep on developing the gameplay further long term. It's a huge benefit for any gameplay discussion to have the possibility to point out real games where something important happens and then replay and analyse the details from multiple viewpoints and have multiple people to say their thoughts on the very same situation.
WyzcrakPot Pie AficionadoJoin Date: 2002-12-04Member: 10447Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Not at all the full-fledged NS2TV we'd like, but TGNS allows spectators during full games. There's a menu that lets you choose which voicecomms you hear, and you see team chat of any team whose voicecomms you've chosen to hear. It can be VERY entertaining, and you can join anytime, even when the server's full.
A proper server-side, full first-person-possible, slow-mo/highlighting replay is possible and desirable. Just so many more important things to do first :-/
I don't see why ppl tag this as awesome. Basically (s)he's saying, it's not on the top of the TODO list...
What would have been a serious marketing asset ? It would definitely be the demo system. Casters would have been able to make live cast in a better way, and then make "replay-cast" by removing all the boring parts or making it fit in a 15min format for example. It would have definitely; without any doubt, improve the situation and allow for player retention much better than what we saw.
Not to mention spectating a player suspected of exploit/cheat. When the suspected one dies you have to cycle over the entire list of player to get the view back. Having "right click options" (for ex) and record a demo would have help a little. instead of casting votes 2 or 3 times before getting rid of the ugly peasant.
I'm sad that UWE didn't took the time to provide an improved user interface. That's a thing you can make while improving performances. I mean getting fanatic about performances is kind of dumb for me when the very ppl who talks about it are programming with high level languages.
When a player feels right :
-with the keyboard settings
-with the user interface
->performances start to be... not so important after all. I'm more comfortable than any other game, let's stay.
Look at Halflife (and HL²). So many bugs and hit box issues... But configuration panel and tutorials made the difference. Of course early version had their issue. But now it's better.
Hardware has it's limits. Games are heavier and heavier (more graphic, more sound and stuff, more, more, moaar). It's like a rule since the 90's. Hard drives got faster but now it's SSD. The main issue is see today are the one related to loading time. HDD won't go faster now. The average player have the PC that allows to play these games. It's not only NS2 that is concerned with this kind of performance issues.
Too late or not ? I don't know. But focusing only on that will definitely achieve to kill it. This means the game is only a performance issue to the eye of a potential new NS2 player.
NS2 can live a long life as it is unique. But expansion is deeply related with advertising. The image (signal) sent since a lot of months are performance and balance issues. I'm not sure it's relevant any more.
Comments
The problem with this is also the reason why demos are so popular with filmmakers, because you don't have to worry about recording at the time or having shadowplay open at all. Demos allow you to go back, only record what you need and allow you to do it with much more flexibility.
I suggested this during the alpha but it never got any traction...
Back then it was UWE, now it is CDT time! .D
Yea, most frag movies are showcasing third person perspective. First person perspective is one thing, you could make decent videos I suppose with just that - but you are wrong, it's not really viable to record all of your matches. The performance decrease alone is not worth it, even in b267. Those few high level players who do stream occasionally, do so in a very low resolution, not really suited for a good frag movie imo.
I said it was next to impossible. It's not impossible, it's difficult, but I doubt you will ever be able to make one with the same quality standard as the old quake and half-life games etc. with our current tools.
Just as in general, setup that allows you to play the game in an optimal way is usually quite far away from one that is enjoyable to look in a frag movie. For any serious fragmovie project you want to strip away half of the HUD, mute the microphone chatter, adjust a dozen settings, run different grapthics driver settings and so on. Obviously something like Shadowplay is better than nothing, but it doesn't really get anywhere close to the stuff you can do with demos.
---
As for other uses of demos, I think they're huge if the community dev team wants to keep on developing the gameplay further long term. It's a huge benefit for any gameplay discussion to have the possibility to point out real games where something important happens and then replay and analyse the details from multiple viewpoints and have multiple people to say their thoughts on the very same situation.
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/133979/spectate-full-games-anytime-and-choose-voicecomms
I don't see why ppl tag this as awesome. Basically (s)he's saying, it's not on the top of the TODO list...
What would have been a serious marketing asset ? It would definitely be the demo system. Casters would have been able to make live cast in a better way, and then make "replay-cast" by removing all the boring parts or making it fit in a 15min format for example. It would have definitely; without any doubt, improve the situation and allow for player retention much better than what we saw.
Not to mention spectating a player suspected of exploit/cheat. When the suspected one dies you have to cycle over the entire list of player to get the view back. Having "right click options" (for ex) and record a demo would have help a little. instead of casting votes 2 or 3 times before getting rid of the ugly peasant.
I'm sad that UWE didn't took the time to provide an improved user interface. That's a thing you can make while improving performances. I mean getting fanatic about performances is kind of dumb for me when the very ppl who talks about it are programming with high level languages.
When a player feels right :
-with the keyboard settings
-with the user interface
->performances start to be... not so important after all. I'm more comfortable than any other game, let's stay.
Look at Halflife (and HL²). So many bugs and hit box issues... But configuration panel and tutorials made the difference. Of course early version had their issue. But now it's better.
Hardware has it's limits. Games are heavier and heavier (more graphic, more sound and stuff, more, more, moaar). It's like a rule since the 90's. Hard drives got faster but now it's SSD. The main issue is see today are the one related to loading time. HDD won't go faster now. The average player have the PC that allows to play these games. It's not only NS2 that is concerned with this kind of performance issues.
Too late or not ? I don't know. But focusing only on that will definitely achieve to kill it. This means the game is only a performance issue to the eye of a potential new NS2 player.
NS2 can live a long life as it is unique. But expansion is deeply related with advertising. The image (signal) sent since a lot of months are performance and balance issues. I'm not sure it's relevant any more.