And worst of all, it unbalances the teams then refuses to let you balance them by switching. That mod was the worst. Can't wait for the skill system reset and random vote actually having a chance of being functional again! (there will still be the whiners on the other team, though)
And worst of all, it unbalances the teams then refuses to let you balance them by switching. That mod was the worst. Can't wait for the skill system reset and random vote actually having a chance of being functional again! (there will still be the whiners on the other team, though)
Two things --
You want 'Force even teams' once the skill system data is populated. I think Random remains, well, random.
I don't mind that mod that 'forces' you to stay on one side a while after allocating teams. There's no point allocating 'balanced' teams using the skill system if people are going to switch. Defeats the purpose.
And worst of all, it unbalances the teams then refuses to let you balance them by switching. That mod was the worst. Can't wait for the skill system reset and random vote actually having a chance of being functional again! (there will still be the whiners on the other team, though)
Two things --
You want 'Force even teams' once the skill system data is populated. I think Random remains, well, random.
I don't mind that mod that 'forces' you to stay on one side a while after allocating teams. There's no point allocating 'balanced' teams using the skill system if people are going to switch. Defeats the purpose.
Well I was referring only to the old mod that forces Elo-based skill. Invariably, these games were the least balanced, and it was obvious at the start just by looking at the scoreboard.
The new system should be much better (and of course improve over time), and of course can also take into account people switching teams in the outcome, which is a far better way of handling it than forcing locked teams (thereby stopping winning-team-switchers and people who prefer to even the teams out alike).
Well that explains why force even teams was a complete nonsense yesterday...
"again be prepared for a zero reset this weekend. Your lvl and HIVE stats should begin to populate quickly with a few rounds after that and you'll be right back on track!"
Its great, that it takes into account how long you've been on the server. For example if you joined a server on which the round is just about to finish.
That is, if they implemented it according to moultanos paper.
What about Commanding?
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
Commanding uses the exact same formula from what i understand, commanders are threated as normal players. All the data is recorded, so at a later date there could be a separate commander skill
I'm just concerned everyone's going to think this is a God send.
THERE WILL STILL BE ONE SIDED STOMPS!!
You put 2 teams together that don't change their rosters and they play 20 rounds against each other, you will find some rounds were stomps in favour of one team and some in favour of the other team. That's just how this game is, sometimes players have a particularly bad round, some have a particularly good round.
There were a lot of assumptions made in making this skill system and those assumptions are by no means going to be correct all the time. Therefore, it is extremely important people think about how often those stomps happen and don't fall down to confirmation bias thinking 1/10 games that are stomps feel like 5/10.
Equally, an important assumption might not have been made screwing up balance and the equation might need tinkering in the next 4-5 months.
I'm not great at maths and do not understand the equations nor have I even given much of a chance to read them, I don't think many other people in ns2 understand fully either, yet there has been a ridiculous hype train on this particular feature. PLEASE LEAVE PRECONCEPTIONS OUT AND FEEL IT FOR HOW IT IS.
Last night the first FET gave us an hour-long match on tram that was a total stalemate with nothing gained/lost until a 3-onos push resulted in base trades that we (aliens) fortunately won.
When the match was over everyone was exhausted and the server emptied :P
Last night the first FET gave us an hour-long match on tram that was a total stalemate with nothing gained/lost until a 3-onos push resulted in base trades that we (aliens) fortunately won.
When the match was over everyone was exhausted and the server emptied :P
So, the stats seem to be reset now, it shows skill = 0 for me. What happens next, can the system even work with skill = 0? Anyone know something about it?
So, the stats seem to be reset now, it shows skill = 0 for me. What happens next, can the system even work with skill = 0? Anyone know something about it?
I guess you just need to play on a few servers with higher skill levels than you. But yeah, this there's some votes kinda useless until players get their skill back. Things will return to normal in few days anyway.
i think the whitelisting could use some improvement (only whitelisted servers are allowed to contribute hive stats).
even using the steam overlay it's a bit difficult to find out which servers are whitelisted and which aren't (plus i have a feeling more should be whitelisted in general, but that's difficult for me to judge). i recon some people even don't know how to bring it up (clicking on your level and then chosing a not-so-obvious-button). maybe simply show on the server browser if a server is whitelisted or not? non-whitelisted servers could be a bit discriminated then, but i guess some people might want to play on those intentionally anyway in certain situations (that's my experience with other games at least).
That gave me a thought, what if we put the individual's skill rating on the scoreboard next to everyone's name and the average skill rating for each team? (At least in your relation to each individual player)
Using the ^^,^,=,V,VV or whatever symbols to signify how good each player is in relation to you.
It would potentially allow for more balanced teams. (Though it would lead to discrimination of players and you might as well add Ranks at that point.)
i asked about that during the last clogcast, answer was basically "definately not in b267" so i guess they simply didn't decide by then (more important/urgent things at hand).
as for discrimination: from what i've experienced, greenies are often treated nicely (at least as long as they communicate) so i'd expect the same for people with low skill values. displaying the values tells you (to some degree) what to (not) expect, which might even help to reduce the raging instead of increasing it. ofc there are always some jerks but i don't see how more people suddenly become a-holes due to some additional number on the scoreboard (we have score and k/a/d there already).
from another point of view, it could help to judge how well the system is working (hopefully building up some trust) and people might finally stop using badges to estimate skill.
you could give people the option to have their skill value hidden, but that might stick out like a lerk on fire and lead to assumptions again.
i think the whitelisting could use some improvement (only whitelisted servers are allowed to contribute hive stats).
even using the steam overlay it's a bit difficult to find out which servers are whitelisted and which aren't (plus i have a feeling more should be whitelisted in general, but that's difficult for me to judge). i recon some people even don't know how to bring it up (clicking on your level and then chosing a not-so-obvious-button). maybe simply show on the server browser if a server is whitelisted or not? non-whitelisted servers could be a bit discriminated then, but i guess some people might want to play on those intentionally anyway in certain situations (that's my experience with other games at least).
Maybe when you're joining a server, somewhere on the loading screen showing you're on whitelisted server on the Hive?
But the best thing would be to have every servers added on that list, I even have no idea why it's not did yet. What's more, it really depends of people playing on what servers, I mean, personally, I often play on the same ones & so I'm aware if they're on the Hive or they are not. But yeah, it would be nice to have these indications about servers on the browser or on the loading page if nothing will change about this on the future. Not really important that's right but as already said, a ton of people only wants to play on whitelisted servers & it seems legit.
i think the whitelisting could use some improvement (only whitelisted servers are allowed to contribute hive stats).
even using the steam overlay it's a bit difficult to find out which servers are whitelisted and which aren't (plus i have a feeling more should be whitelisted in general, but that's difficult for me to judge). i recon some people even don't know how to bring it up (clicking on your level and then chosing a not-so-obvious-button). maybe simply show on the server browser if a server is whitelisted or not? non-whitelisted servers could be a bit discriminated then, but i guess some people might want to play on those intentionally anyway in certain situations (that's my experience with other games at least).
@Wasabione, just in case you didn't already see it from the other thread, the skill system is currently broken: it only counts the last game you played in, and every player on the winning team gets + points (let's say +325), and everyone on the losing team gets -325 in this example.
if someone that played 2 years before does not play for that very day, but a person who bought game that same morning plays 1 hour will now be higher rank?
if someone that played 2 years before does not play for that very day, but a person who bought game that same morning plays 1 hour will now be higher rank?
know sure if i understand you correctly, but the skill value can obviously be quite off for the first few games. but in the long run, a person playing 2 years will usually contribute much more to the team and win more/harder games than a fresh rookie.
or are you refering to people who took a long break from the game and are now coming back? i think their experience will still help them a lot. but anyway, i don't see the point of giving people super-high skill values for being good ages ago if it does not reflect their current skill. that would imbalance the teams and their skill-value will go down again anyway, until they become better at the game again. in fact, this is a phenomenon that annoyed me a lot regarding challengenging games such as LoL or SC2: if you take a longer break and come back, you will be stomped for quite a while (because it still thinks you are the good player you used to be) unless you find other ways of getting back into the game.
if someone that played 2 years before does not play for that very day, but a person who bought game that same morning plays 1 hour will now be higher rank?
Until said player play enough games showing he has more skill.
Comments
Well I was referring only to the old mod that forces Elo-based skill. Invariably, these games were the least balanced, and it was obvious at the start just by looking at the scoreboard.
The new system should be much better (and of course improve over time), and of course can also take into account people switching teams in the outcome, which is a far better way of handling it than forcing locked teams (thereby stopping winning-team-switchers and people who prefer to even the teams out alike).
"again be prepared for a zero reset this weekend. Your lvl and HIVE stats should begin to populate quickly with a few rounds after that and you'll be right back on track!"
That is, if they implemented it according to moultanos paper.
What about Commanding?
THERE WILL STILL BE ONE SIDED STOMPS!!
You put 2 teams together that don't change their rosters and they play 20 rounds against each other, you will find some rounds were stomps in favour of one team and some in favour of the other team. That's just how this game is, sometimes players have a particularly bad round, some have a particularly good round.
There were a lot of assumptions made in making this skill system and those assumptions are by no means going to be correct all the time. Therefore, it is extremely important people think about how often those stomps happen and don't fall down to confirmation bias thinking 1/10 games that are stomps feel like 5/10.
Equally, an important assumption might not have been made screwing up balance and the equation might need tinkering in the next 4-5 months.
I'm not great at maths and do not understand the equations nor have I even given much of a chance to read them, I don't think many other people in ns2 understand fully either, yet there has been a ridiculous hype train on this particular feature. PLEASE LEAVE PRECONCEPTIONS OUT AND FEEL IT FOR HOW IT IS.
When the match was over everyone was exhausted and the server emptied :P
Damn FET is making games too even now!
This is what I'm talking about. The stats don't reset until the 9th or 10th. That's SATURDAY or SUNDAY.
People aren't aware of what's going on and only look at results and pass (bad) judgement on psychological placebo effects.
Thanks for your in-depth explanation of my joke, m8
I guess you just need to play on a few servers with higher skill levels than you. But yeah, this there's some votes kinda useless until players get their skill back. Things will return to normal in few days anyway.
You did not notice you was alone at work?
even using the steam overlay it's a bit difficult to find out which servers are whitelisted and which aren't (plus i have a feeling more should be whitelisted in general, but that's difficult for me to judge). i recon some people even don't know how to bring it up (clicking on your level and then chosing a not-so-obvious-button).
maybe simply show on the server browser if a server is whitelisted or not? non-whitelisted servers could be a bit discriminated then, but i guess some people might want to play on those intentionally anyway in certain situations (that's my experience with other games at least).
as for discrimination: from what i've experienced, greenies are often treated nicely (at least as long as they communicate) so i'd expect the same for people with low skill values. displaying the values tells you (to some degree) what to (not) expect, which might even help to reduce the raging instead of increasing it. ofc there are always some jerks but i don't see how more people suddenly become a-holes due to some additional number on the scoreboard (we have score and k/a/d there already).
from another point of view, it could help to judge how well the system is working (hopefully building up some trust) and people might finally stop using badges to estimate skill.
you could give people the option to have their skill value hidden, but that might stick out like a lerk on fire and lead to assumptions again.
Maybe when you're joining a server, somewhere on the loading screen showing you're on whitelisted server on the Hive?
But the best thing would be to have every servers added on that list, I even have no idea why it's not did yet. What's more, it really depends of people playing on what servers, I mean, personally, I often play on the same ones & so I'm aware if they're on the Hive or they are not. But yeah, it would be nice to have these indications about servers on the browser or on the loading page if nothing will change about this on the future. Not really important that's right but as already said, a ton of people only wants to play on whitelisted servers & it seems legit.
Is a worldwide misunderstanding?
I will look into this, thank you!
Needs fixing!
or are you refering to people who took a long break from the game and are now coming back? i think their experience will still help them a lot. but anyway, i don't see the point of giving people super-high skill values for being good ages ago if it does not reflect their current skill. that would imbalance the teams and their skill-value will go down again anyway, until they become better at the game again. in fact, this is a phenomenon that annoyed me a lot regarding challengenging games such as LoL or SC2: if you take a longer break and come back, you will be stomped for quite a while (because it still thinks you are the good player you used to be) unless you find other ways of getting back into the game.
Until said player play enough games showing he has more skill.