BTW the answer to your question is YES. It might take a few hours to grow on you, but you will find and enjoy the NS you used to play in this game. It is even more awesome then NS1 as many things were upgraded/changed for the better. Some for the worse but mostly for the better.
I miss sneaking away in the original, going gorge, and plopping down a hive when the marines thought it was over. All of a sudden the whole team spawns in and you could actually turn the whole game around.
It's been such a long time since I played the original, it would be difficult to decide which is better. Although, I'm very happy with NS2.
"Both skulks and fades have queued jumping to aid in this."
OMG - really? Wish there was a manual.
Most disappointed, game didn't come in a box with a 200 page manual.
I am about to answer your prayers. I am currently writing up a manual for the game. It is geared toward new players though (light on alot of detail mechanics). This is so new players can at least get an idea about whats what. All the info is in the Wiki, but I feel it isn't in an easily digestible form. The Wiki explains alot of mechanics without context. I hope to push out part 1 soon as the sale has put alot of new players in the game. Watch this space.
"Both skulks and fades have queued jumping to aid in this."
OMG - really? Wish there was a manual.
Most disappointed, game didn't come in a box with a 200 page manual.
I am about to answer your prayers. I am currently writing up a manual for the game. It is geared toward new players though (light on alot of detail mechanics). This is so new players can at least get an idea about whats what. All the info is in the Wiki, but I feel it isn't in an easily digestible form. The Wiki explains alot of mechanics without context. I hope to push out part 1 soon as the sale has put alot of new players in the game. Watch this space.
"Both skulks and fades have queued jumping to aid in this."
OMG - really? Wish there was a manual.
Most disappointed, game didn't come in a box with a 200 page manual.
I am about to answer your prayers. I am currently writing up a manual for the game. It is geared toward new players though (light on alot of detail mechanics). This is so new players can at least get an idea about whats what. All the info is in the Wiki, but I feel it isn't in an easily digestible form. The Wiki explains alot of mechanics without context. I hope to push out part 1 soon as the sale has put alot of new players in the game. Watch this space.
Pshhh noob teaching noobs h2p.
Thanks for the negativity. Playing over the last week, I see 3-8 greens regularly on servers. They generally don't use a mike, and don't ask questions (though I always type in chat telling them to ask questions of the Vets if they need to know anything). Most don't respond, a few keen ones will say stuff (which is great). You really want players engaged in this game because it is so team orientated. No team work = no win and no fun. I have the game since it came out, and even though I have about 160 games on steam, every day I come back to this. I have clocked 660 hrs on this playing 1-2 hrs a day, my next most play game is Borderlands 2 with about 20 hours (I got this before NS2 came out). This is the only game I play on Steam (pretty much).
I am thinking, there are alot of tutorials out there (vids), and some text (on Steam etc...). But they are text that explain what to do, and how to be uber and play like a pro. It is so dry, and the only people that would read that would be the guys would be the mad keen (they already see the potential of the game). The guys you want to engage are the ones that aren't sure, got the game (sale on), and think, f*** this is confusing, I ll just play it like CS or CoD. These guys could have been a regular player, but they don't because no one in game takes the time to explain anything and the context the thing is used for to them in a step by step fashion.
Personally, I miss the days where you get a manual that explains things in just enough detail for you to know what the things does, and leave you to explore its potential in game. And if it can be read while the game is downloading all the better (not too much deep detail but tells the lore and equipment in a story form).
"Both skulks and fades have queued jumping to aid in this."
OMG - really? Wish there was a manual.
Most disappointed, game didn't come in a box with a 200 page manual.
I am about to answer your prayers. I am currently writing up a manual for the game. It is geared toward new players though (light on alot of detail mechanics). This is so new players can at least get an idea about whats what. All the info is in the Wiki, but I feel it isn't in an easily digestible form. The Wiki explains alot of mechanics without context. I hope to push out part 1 soon as the sale has put alot of new players in the game. Watch this space.
Pshhh noob teaching noobs h2p.
Thanks for the negativity.
I could be wrong, but judging from his past posts I believe this was sarcasm which doesn't usually do well in text. I don't think anyone should be criticized for the act of making a guide. If your guide turns out poor quality, constructive feedback is in order, but that is indeed a whole other animal.
"Both skulks and fades have queued jumping to aid in this."
OMG - really? Wish there was a manual.
Most disappointed, game didn't come in a box with a 200 page manual.
I am about to answer your prayers. I am currently writing up a manual for the game. It is geared toward new players though (light on alot of detail mechanics). This is so new players can at least get an idea about whats what. All the info is in the Wiki, but I feel it isn't in an easily digestible form. The Wiki explains alot of mechanics without context. I hope to push out part 1 soon as the sale has put alot of new players in the game. Watch this space.
Pshhh noob teaching noobs h2p.
Thanks for the negativity. Playing over the last week, I see 3-8 greens regularly on servers. They generally don't use a mike, and don't ask questions (though I always type in chat telling them to ask questions of the Vets if they need to know anything). Most don't respond, a few keen ones will say stuff (which is great). You really want players engaged in this game because it is so team orientated. No team work = no win and no fun. I have the game since it came out, and even though I have about 160 games on steam, every day I come back to this. I have clocked 660 hrs on this playing 1-2 hrs a day, my next most play game is Borderlands 2 with about 20 hours (I got this before NS2 came out). This is the only game I play on Steam (pretty much).
I am thinking, there are alot of tutorials out there (vids), and some text (on Steam etc...). But they are text that explain what to do, and how to be uber and play like a pro. It is so dry, and the only people that would read that would be the guys would be the mad keen (they already see the potential of the game). The guys you want to engage are the ones that aren't sure, got the game (sale on), and think, f*** this is confusing, I ll just play it like CS or CoD. These guys could have been a regular player, but they don't because no one in game takes the time to explain anything and the context the thing is used for to them in a step by step fashion.
Personally, I miss the days where you get a manual that explains things in just enough detail for you to know what the things does, and leave you to explore its potential in game. And if it can be read while the game is downloading all the better (not too much deep detail but tells the lore and equipment in a story form).
I made a thread in the New player forum. Also, if anyone want to share the link on steam or Reddit, please feel free to do so. I also welcome any feedback on the style of writing for the manual. Please don't comment on the crappyness of the pictures (I know about that). If a forum Mod think it deserves a new thread in General to get more new players on it, please feel free to make it.
Overall the game is hugely improved from the terrible lows of the gorgeous patch and it doesn't hurt to try it again.
But if you're looking for the snappy, responsive, butter-smooth movement of quake/HL engine games you will not find it here.
If you're looking for improved performance, it has improved somewhat since release, but you still need a fast CPU to get > 100 FPS. A high framerate is required in NS2 to combat microstutter and mouse lag; most games provide a smoother experience at half the framerate.
*prepares flame shield*
I find the NS2 skulk movement to be so much more fluid, intuitive and almost rhythmic compared to NS1's skulk.
I have no problem with the NS2 skulk movement by itself. What made NS1 so great for me was the gameplay and the vast potential to outplay your opponent.
2 SG Marines could get outplayed by one focus skulk, or those 2 SG marines could kill 4 skulks and a lerk.
1 HMG JPer could outplay and kill 2 fades or 1 fade could take down 2 JPers.
I could replay those engagements for years (and literally did) and never tire of it.
This was high skilled players mind you. Now imagine a premier team crushing 2 SGers with 4 skulks and a Lerk in NS2. They would literally clear the marines 100 out of 100 times. Not fun at all. Not fun to watch. Not fun to play.
Hell, I mean NS1 had motion tracking upgrade for marines and it still wasn't OP! That's how good the combat system was in NS1. But please, keep talking about your fluid jumping NS2 skulk or whatever...
I will go a step further and hypothesize that UWE did a disservice to themselves making the hitboxes wrap around the model (and thus sometimes very frustrating to even the good player, let alone the rookie) when aiming. I think potentially more rectangular hitboxes balanced with faster movement and easier landing of bites would have actually had a huge effect on keeping players in this game, and would have lessened the frustration the majority of players feel without 100s of hours of practice.
Maybe someone has brought this point up somewhere along the line, but it definitely gets drowned out compared to the "match making, CPU performance, blah blah blah" typical talk.
@NotPaLaGi I dont get what you're trying to say in that first post. Total straw man;
"Here's an example of balanced play, possible in NS1" (wont mention the scenario still holds in NS2)
"Now, IMAGINE a premier division team crushing 2 shotgunners (of undefined skill level) with 5 aliens, this only happens in NS2"
@NotPaLaGi I dont get what you're trying to say in that first post. Total straw man;
"Here's an example of balanced play, possible in NS1" (wont mention the scenario still holds in NS2)
"Now, IMAGINE a premier division team crushing 2 shotgunners (of undefined skill level) with 5 aliens, this only happens in NS2"
But please, keep talking about your fluid jumping NS2 skulk or whatever...
God forbid I talk about actual movement - what was being romantically reminisced - and not mention every other element involved with it like combat engagement variance etc
I think potentially more rectangular hitboxes balanced with faster movement and easier landing of bites would have actually had a huge effect on keeping players in this game, and would have lessened the frustration the majority of players feel without 100s of hours of practice.
Maybe someone has brought this point up somewhere along the line,
NS2 already has hitboxes that are larger than the models now, unless you forgot the changes made in BT. Its probably hard to visualize how much that actually adds, but the hitboxes are not why NS1 skulks were easier to hit.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited July 2014
@xDragon
eh?..
The hitboxes are the same.
The rifle spread and bullet size increased slightly though.
And I would throw out a suggestion (that could be off) that the reason why ns2 skulks are harder to hit beyond the more dark, rich and busy environments - is due to their animation transition issues and occasional position warping.
Making the size of your hitscan object bigger effectively makes every model's hitbox bigger doesn't it, just semantics at that point.
I would say its the complex animations, environments and netcode which all make it harder. Netcode including more that just warping however, interp delays also make it much harder to gauge bite ranges unless you play the game quite frequently.
in NS2 there is a delay to a button being pressed so the game feels laggy. back in NS1's jetpack i could fly around the map without stopping no problem.
Making the size of your hitscan object bigger effectively makes every model's hitbox bigger doesn't it, just semantics at that point.
There is actually a real difference between those two approaches. See for instance gorge spit, which needs a hole the size of a melon for it to pass through; making it super-annoying and finicky when trying to spit a moving target through handle bars, between walls and columns/supports or any other kind of clutter.
Gorge spit is one of the few exceptions to that, and thats because it is actually a projectile. All of the hitscan weapons that use the bullet size do a first trace without it, to pass through small gaps if it could cause a problem.
^^
Regards to this - Is it possible (or instead, would it be wise) to have two separate projectile radii? A smaller one to handle collisions with the environment and structures, and a larger one to handle collisions with players.
This might mitigate the issue of gorge spits and parasites colliding unexpectedly with the environment when trying to hit a player (due to how fat the projectile is), but still retain the benefits of a fatter projectile when it hits a player (easier to hit with).
Perhaps there's a more elegant solution, or perhaps it's not really enough of an issue to really bother with at the moment (bigger priorities), or perhaps it's not really addressing the root problem that causes this (like poorly defined collision geometry* in some environment pieces like pipes where bullets and projectiles may collide with perceived empty spaces instead of passing through).
*unsure if this is the right term. I am a mere pretender when throwing out game development terminology.
Making the size of your hitscan object bigger effectively makes every model's hitbox bigger doesn't it, just semantics at that point.
Maybe, but the difference wasn't enough to be comparable to the hitbox sizes of every other twitch FPS out there, let alone NS1.
I advocate for a greater bullet size, personally.
What we have now:
Edit:
Examing the bullet width further compelled me to make a gif just for a visual comparison :
*FLAME SHIELDS ON!*
*I am not advocating for that exact value in the gif
Comments
It's been such a long time since I played the original, it would be difficult to decide which is better. Although, I'm very happy with NS2.
OMG - really? Wish there was a manual.
Most disappointed, game didn't come in a box with a 200 page manual.
I am about to answer your prayers. I am currently writing up a manual for the game. It is geared toward new players though (light on alot of detail mechanics). This is so new players can at least get an idea about whats what. All the info is in the Wiki, but I feel it isn't in an easily digestible form. The Wiki explains alot of mechanics without context. I hope to push out part 1 soon as the sale has put alot of new players in the game. Watch this space.
Pshhh noob teaching noobs h2p.
Thanks for the negativity. Playing over the last week, I see 3-8 greens regularly on servers. They generally don't use a mike, and don't ask questions (though I always type in chat telling them to ask questions of the Vets if they need to know anything). Most don't respond, a few keen ones will say stuff (which is great). You really want players engaged in this game because it is so team orientated. No team work = no win and no fun. I have the game since it came out, and even though I have about 160 games on steam, every day I come back to this. I have clocked 660 hrs on this playing 1-2 hrs a day, my next most play game is Borderlands 2 with about 20 hours (I got this before NS2 came out). This is the only game I play on Steam (pretty much).
I am thinking, there are alot of tutorials out there (vids), and some text (on Steam etc...). But they are text that explain what to do, and how to be uber and play like a pro. It is so dry, and the only people that would read that would be the guys would be the mad keen (they already see the potential of the game). The guys you want to engage are the ones that aren't sure, got the game (sale on), and think, f*** this is confusing, I ll just play it like CS or CoD. These guys could have been a regular player, but they don't because no one in game takes the time to explain anything and the context the thing is used for to them in a step by step fashion.
Personally, I miss the days where you get a manual that explains things in just enough detail for you to know what the things does, and leave you to explore its potential in game. And if it can be read while the game is downloading all the better (not too much deep detail but tells the lore and equipment in a story form).
I was joking :-(
No worries mate.
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/135035/my-take-on-a-ns2-manual?new=1
I made a thread in the New player forum. Also, if anyone want to share the link on steam or Reddit, please feel free to do so. I also welcome any feedback on the style of writing for the manual. Please don't comment on the crappyness of the pictures (I know about that). If a forum Mod think it deserves a new thread in General to get more new players on it, please feel free to make it.
thanks sewlek and test server players, without you we would have had brick skulks still! - ironhorse
that code has actuelly been written by me
But if you're looking for the snappy, responsive, butter-smooth movement of quake/HL engine games you will not find it here.
If you're looking for improved performance, it has improved somewhat since release, but you still need a fast CPU to get > 100 FPS. A high framerate is required in NS2 to combat microstutter and mouse lag; most games provide a smoother experience at half the framerate.
I have no problem with the NS2 skulk movement by itself. What made NS1 so great for me was the gameplay and the vast potential to outplay your opponent.
2 SG Marines could get outplayed by one focus skulk, or those 2 SG marines could kill 4 skulks and a lerk.
1 HMG JPer could outplay and kill 2 fades or 1 fade could take down 2 JPers.
I could replay those engagements for years (and literally did) and never tire of it.
This was high skilled players mind you. Now imagine a premier team crushing 2 SGers with 4 skulks and a Lerk in NS2. They would literally clear the marines 100 out of 100 times. Not fun at all. Not fun to watch. Not fun to play.
Hell, I mean NS1 had motion tracking upgrade for marines and it still wasn't OP! That's how good the combat system was in NS1. But please, keep talking about your fluid jumping NS2 skulk or whatever...
Maybe someone has brought this point up somewhere along the line, but it definitely gets drowned out compared to the "match making, CPU performance, blah blah blah" typical talk.
"Here's an example of balanced play, possible in NS1" (wont mention the scenario still holds in NS2)
"Now, IMAGINE a premier division team crushing 2 shotgunners (of undefined skill level) with 5 aliens, this only happens in NS2"
What an insultingly poor anecdotal argument.
I do wonder about the hitboxes.
Do you think their complexity could have something to do with the hitreg issues?
Did you even ns1?
*Steeaaaaddy ...Must.. not.. be.. baited, Iron..* *Points to self*
Over a year ago or so
eh?..
The hitboxes are the same.
The rifle spread and bullet size increased slightly though.
And I would throw out a suggestion (that could be off) that the reason why ns2 skulks are harder to hit beyond the more dark, rich and busy environments - is due to their animation transition issues and occasional position warping.
I would say its the complex animations, environments and netcode which all make it harder. Netcode including more that just warping however, interp delays also make it much harder to gauge bite ranges unless you play the game quite frequently.
There is actually a real difference between those two approaches. See for instance gorge spit, which needs a hole the size of a melon for it to pass through; making it super-annoying and finicky when trying to spit a moving target through handle bars, between walls and columns/supports or any other kind of clutter.
Regards to this - Is it possible (or instead, would it be wise) to have two separate projectile radii? A smaller one to handle collisions with the environment and structures, and a larger one to handle collisions with players.
This might mitigate the issue of gorge spits and parasites colliding unexpectedly with the environment when trying to hit a player (due to how fat the projectile is), but still retain the benefits of a fatter projectile when it hits a player (easier to hit with).
Perhaps there's a more elegant solution, or perhaps it's not really enough of an issue to really bother with at the moment (bigger priorities), or perhaps it's not really addressing the root problem that causes this (like poorly defined collision geometry* in some environment pieces like pipes where bullets and projectiles may collide with perceived empty spaces instead of passing through).
*unsure if this is the right term. I am a mere pretender when throwing out game development terminology.
I advocate for a greater bullet size, personally.
What we have now:
Edit:
Examing the bullet width further compelled me to make a gif just for a visual comparison :
*FLAME SHIELDS ON!*
*I am not advocating for that exact value in the gif