Cannon_FodderAUSBrisbane, AUJoin Date: 2013-06-23Member: 185664Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
I love this. The only thing I found playing Captains is:
When you can get organised enough to get a captain, it means most of the server are communicating (or at least listening and reading chat), so it is in part a communication issue. I really hope this works, because Captained games are the best games I played. Even when you lost, you felt you had a fighting chance, and it wasn't a one sided stomp (or if it is a stomp both teams joke about it and will usually say, well that sucked, lets make sure teams are different next game). We usually play a game and swap sides instead of repicking teams. This was a while ago on the AUS servers.
If you already have communicative and mostly balanced teams, I find it unnecessary. Just the fact that it is a "captains game" suddenly everything becomes more serious. I can play on diamonds servers or TGNS and have fun. Then with the same group of people, when a captain game is going on, people get too serious. It is still public play, not a comp game. I am all for high level play, but not at the cost little fun things like trying to get a welder kill if I feel like it. In a captains game, if I try to finish off a skulk with a welder instead of reloading and I lose I get berated for not playing with the team in mind. I enjoyed myself though.
Although captains games can improve gameplay, it sometimes has a detrimental effect on what makes public ns2 great.
as somebody else said, the best part about the captain servers (I only have experience with calego's) is that almost everybody has a microphone and has a idea of how to play the game. admittingly when somebody joins with 200+ hours but still seems clueless, they do tend to sometimes get ridiculed to the point of them quitting especially if they're annoying or don't listen. i don't think it's a bad thing personally, I go in these servers to have close and fun games.
it's just a shame that lately the server has been suffering from severe performance issues due to bluefangs extremely poor servers.
as somebody else said, the best part about the captain servers (I only have experience with calego's) is that almost everybody has a microphone and has a idea of how to play the game. admittingly when somebody joins with 200+ hours but still seems clueless, they do tend to sometimes get ridiculed to the point of them quitting especially if they're annoying or don't listen. i don't think it's a bad thing personally, I go in these servers to have close and fun games.
it's just a shame that lately the server has been suffering from severe performance issues due to bluefangs extremely poor servers.
I played like a 30 min captains game last night lol and it wasn't turtling.
The attractiveness of captains mod is that you can create a pug from random people browsing and joining the server. Sure you may be able to organise a pug as effectively sitting in a mumble channel. But you can't attract pubbers into organised play which is what one of the main objectives of a captains mod server should be.
Cannon_FodderAUSBrisbane, AUJoin Date: 2013-06-23Member: 185664Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
I really enjoyed the captained pub matches I played. I think because many on the server are talking, suddenly you aren't playing alone, and other who are usually silent start to chat as well, and its all nice and friendly.
The first thing I thought about on this idea is that it might instead promote stacking, as captains would naturally pick those he knows are either his friends/clanmates or the best guys out there. The team captain picking teams problems go back to the original team picking at the school yard: the best guys get picked and the rest might as well random.
as long as both captains know all the good players, it shouldn't end in a stack. if they're both picking to win, they will pick the best available players.
having one knowledgeable person pick both teams (then randoming at the end) works well too I think, just less common.
I can see this being a double edged sword, the concept is fine itself but practically it could go either way.
Either this results in balanced games as you'll have even teams either side OR.
It could unbalance it, teams could be unfavoured specially on servers where it has a regular player base and everyone knows eachother for example.
Group of 3 highly skilled veterans decide to join the same team as they all know eachother (I know I would) while the other team could get mediocre players and 1 good player.
My view of team is that they would rather play with their friends more often than against them, this is of course, completely down to individual cases.
A way to get round this would be to maybe take a leaf out of SEK2000 mod where it actively displays the skill rating, maybe link it to hive stats? So it shows the team strength before the game actually starts so people can do last minute swaps.
Its like being back at school again standing in the cold on the school field waiting to get picked hahaha
A way to get round this would be to maybe take a leaf out of SEK2000 mod where it actively display the skill rating, maybe link it to hive stats? So it shows the team strength before the game actually starts so people can do last minute swaps.
A lot of people are questioning whether a captains mode works or not. I think that this thread is overwhelming response that Captains mode does work and is fun and proof is it running on a handful of servers already. Just wish there was a mod for it available on the workshop so that it can be implemented easily.
If one captain chooses first (typically a really good player), then the other captain chooses two people (better players, but not typically better than first choice). After that, it's one at a time. It works I tell ya! Played another 30 min back and forth game using captains.. and it wasn't lame turtling. Was very fun.
Captains games are by far the best way for me to find consistent good games. Infrequently there's still questionable games, probably more to do w/ the snowball effect, but mostly works. Really though, it is most effective when most of the players have at least a general idea of the capabilities of the other players in the server.
Cannon_FodderAUSBrisbane, AUJoin Date: 2013-06-23Member: 185664Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
+1 to this. I have played unbalanced captains games, but then everyone in the RR would all agree it wasn't really balanced, and we re-pick the teams. I find the captains games have a more communicative atmosphere because the captains call out the players by name at the RR to get them to join a team. This is like the "eye contact" when you talk to someone, and that is very powerful in getting the team to start working with each other.
+1 to this. I have played unbalanced captains games, but then everyone in the RR would all agree it wasn't really balanced, and we re-pick the teams. I find the captains games have a more communicative atmosphere because the captains call out the players by name at the RR to get them to join a team. This is like the "eye contact" when you talk to someone, and that is very powerful in getting the team to start working with each other.
Yep I totally agree, it gives players more feeling of responsibility and teamwork. When a new-to-6v6 player wins their first Captains game, it always a pretty amazing feeling for them knowing that coordination, communication and teamwork led to victory.
The first thing I thought about on this idea is that it might instead promote stacking, as captains would naturally pick those he knows are either his friends/clanmates or the best guys out there. The team captain picking teams problems go back to the original team picking at the school yard: the best guys get picked and the rest might as well random.
Just wanted to address this. I haven't found this to be the case at all. The captains should pick the people that are the best first - it's the only real way to get balanced teams, in general. If you're an unknown, yeah, expect to get picked last just because nobody knows what to expect of you. Once you've played a few games, they should have a feel for your skill level.
Personally, I'd never be happy with just randoming the last couple of guys (assuming they're all around equal skill level). There's some players I want every time because they listen really well, play a lifeform I'm short on, recap without whining, or are generally just delightful people. Even if they can't aim to save their lives
There's really a lot that goes into it. It's more complicated than you'd think :P
Scenario:
Players joined on teams by voteforceeven. A mod picks 5 players randomly out of each team. Both teams vote one of those 5 as their captain. Captain can command or pick a comm and be field commander.
This entire thing isn't forced but rather votable as one of x game start options of which one is standard captains, another is free choice (modless), etc.
A way to get round this would be to maybe take a leaf out of SEK2000 mod where it actively display the skill rating, maybe link it to hive stats? So it shows the team strength before the game actually starts so people can do last minute swaps.
Any server running NS2+ can toggle this setting in NS2PlusServerConfig.json
Just a note that NS2+ only displays the team's average skill, not the skill of the individual players. Which would be immensely useful (however skewed the skill levels of comp players are) for pointing out smurfs or sleeper picks.
You say that like I can't implement it. In fact, the scoreboard already has such data, but it's not shown, that's how I get the team averages, in fact... all the info was already there. I could add it if there's interest. To show player skill for players when the game hasn't started would be a sensible implementation I think.
You say that like I can't implement it. In fact, the scoreboard already has such data, but it's not shown, that's how I get the team averages, in fact... all the info was already there. I could add it if there's interest. To show player skill for players when the game hasn't started would be a sensible implementation I think.
Yup that would be the most common sense approach I reckon, good work Watson!
You say that like I can't implement it. In fact, the scoreboard already has such data, but it's not shown, that's how I get the team averages, in fact... all the info was already there. I could add it if there's interest. To show player skill for players when the game hasn't started would be a sensible implementation I think.
are the HIVE stats working as intended now?
I yet have to play a captains mode game but I think this is a great idea.
Some people can just organize it in a pub, but takes people to not be derps and an admin present (if not using a mod). I was a part of one on the DMD servers.
are the HIVE stats working as intended now?
I yet have to play a captains mode game but I think this is a great idea.
yeah, usually, someone calls out to have a captain's game on pubs (if they don't have the mod). With any luck, 1/3 of the server respond, and its decided. Like I said, when this happens, everyone is more invested because you have interacted with people and that is very powerful for them to feel like they are a part of a team and made a decision together (group think).
are the HIVE stats working as intended now?
I yet have to play a captains mode game but I think this is a great idea.
Although the above answers are correct, no one answered if hive stats are working as intended. I can say that hive stats are far improved and do seem to work very well in my experience.
Comments
When you can get organised enough to get a captain, it means most of the server are communicating (or at least listening and reading chat), so it is in part a communication issue. I really hope this works, because Captained games are the best games I played. Even when you lost, you felt you had a fighting chance, and it wasn't a one sided stomp (or if it is a stomp both teams joke about it and will usually say, well that sucked, lets make sure teams are different next game). We usually play a game and swap sides instead of repicking teams. This was a while ago on the AUS servers.
If you already have communicative and mostly balanced teams, I find it unnecessary. Just the fact that it is a "captains game" suddenly everything becomes more serious. I can play on diamonds servers or TGNS and have fun. Then with the same group of people, when a captain game is going on, people get too serious. It is still public play, not a comp game. I am all for high level play, but not at the cost little fun things like trying to get a welder kill if I feel like it. In a captains game, if I try to finish off a skulk with a welder instead of reloading and I lose I get berated for not playing with the team in mind. I enjoyed myself though.
Although captains games can improve gameplay, it sometimes has a detrimental effect on what makes public ns2 great.
it's just a shame that lately the server has been suffering from severe performance issues due to bluefangs extremely poor servers.
I played like a 30 min captains game last night lol and it wasn't turtling.
having one knowledgeable person pick both teams (then randoming at the end) works well too I think, just less common.
Right now the heirarchy is like this: Competitive>pug/scrim>captains mode server>pub game>Woozas
lol. Woozas is a meme.
Either this results in balanced games as you'll have even teams either side OR.
It could unbalance it, teams could be unfavoured specially on servers where it has a regular player base and everyone knows eachother for example.
Group of 3 highly skilled veterans decide to join the same team as they all know eachother (I know I would) while the other team could get mediocre players and 1 good player.
My view of team is that they would rather play with their friends more often than against them, this is of course, completely down to individual cases.
A way to get round this would be to maybe take a leaf out of SEK2000 mod where it actively displays the skill rating, maybe link it to hive stats? So it shows the team strength before the game actually starts so people can do last minute swaps.
Its like being back at school again standing in the cold on the school field waiting to get picked hahaha
Actually, that idea was coined by us.
Kudos to @Mendasp for adding it to NS2+
Any server running NS2+ can toggle this setting in NS2PlusServerConfig.json
Yep I totally agree, it gives players more feeling of responsibility and teamwork. When a new-to-6v6 player wins their first Captains game, it always a pretty amazing feeling for them knowing that coordination, communication and teamwork led to victory.
Just wanted to address this. I haven't found this to be the case at all. The captains should pick the people that are the best first - it's the only real way to get balanced teams, in general. If you're an unknown, yeah, expect to get picked last just because nobody knows what to expect of you. Once you've played a few games, they should have a feel for your skill level.
Personally, I'd never be happy with just randoming the last couple of guys (assuming they're all around equal skill level). There's some players I want every time because they listen really well, play a lifeform I'm short on, recap without whining, or are generally just delightful people. Even if they can't aim to save their lives
There's really a lot that goes into it. It's more complicated than you'd think :P
Players joined on teams by voteforceeven. A mod picks 5 players randomly out of each team. Both teams vote one of those 5 as their captain. Captain can command or pick a comm and be field commander.
This entire thing isn't forced but rather votable as one of x game start options of which one is standard captains, another is free choice (modless), etc.
Now if only we could get a mod that can be deployed on any server that had a nice UI system and an array of features...
Yup that would be the most common sense approach I reckon, good work Watson!
That sounds good to me. I'm interested.
I yet have to play a captains mode game but I think this is a great idea.
Some people can just organize it in a pub, but takes people to not be derps and an admin present (if not using a mod). I was a part of one on the DMD servers.
yeah, usually, someone calls out to have a captain's game on pubs (if they don't have the mod). With any luck, 1/3 of the server respond, and its decided. Like I said, when this happens, everyone is more invested because you have interacted with people and that is very powerful for them to feel like they are a part of a team and made a decision together (group think).
Although the above answers are correct, no one answered if hive stats are working as intended. I can say that hive stats are far improved and do seem to work very well in my experience.