NS2_outerrimark "Outer Rim Ark"

UncleCrunch · May 2014

Hello

Here is a new map. There are 2 or 3 sections that looks like Veil (layout), the rest isn't at all.

How far it is done ? The map has some part close to final design and some are more basic. This is no gray box either. Proper lightning are set.

I'm at the point i have to make ppl play it to verify what's good and what's wrong.

I intend to make new textures and Skybox, so i don't want to go on that road before checking things are ok.

Feel free to contact me to report things like that. It is better when mappers get feed back from players.

If you want to test it (tactical) it will be nice. Maybe SCC on Sunday can try it. Thanks in advance.

Edit: Forgot the link isn't it?
There you go :
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=262105837

Some screenshots :

Pelargir · May 2014

Sounds good, I like it!

Just let me know if you want some tests by our NSL Maptesting team. Like ns2_relic previously, I think we have possibility to fight on your map, only to try & check layout itself. If SCC could try it before, that would be awesome as well. There's a lot of new maps, in beta or alpha from so many mappers, but it's just impossible to test all these maps once.
We've got some priorities for this current week & the next one, but I can imagine to do something, hopefully, in 2 weeks.

Do you have any idea for a potential history of your map? And how many Tech/Res points? I guess 4/10, like Veil?

UncleCrunch · May 2014

@Pelargir

It's a 5 TPs in cross with a particularity. The center TP is a little hard to ARC. 9 RTs. So Teams have to fight hard for center both ways (defending / attacking).

My 1 million dollar question is : should i add an alley from center to North ? Right now i tend to yes. But it has to be confirmed. It changes many things on the tactical layer.

I did test with bots, but bots are bots. It is good to see how "hoomans" behave in there and how commanders innovate. What I'm seeking for is validation on the tactical layer. Measuring distances is Ok but to some extend not enough.

No need to write novels. Just something like "this vent should be better here", "add a vent here because", "room un-defendable while it should be a little more", "here needs more obstacles". etc.

I can join a server if invited but only as spectator. I know it like the back of my hand already. Wouldn't be fair.

Notes :
-The circle alleys are a little thin for some taste. It's done like that for WJ purposes as it is big and looks shaped like a straight line.
-Some rooms may looks large but in the end when it's all filled up with tons of stuff, it won't.

Scenario; An arch is something that travel to deliver or save what is important. So a starship will do. More in the mod description.

UncleCrunch · May 2014

A little update :
-Added some custom textures
-Added Custom Skybox
-Starting to populate one little room.

Pls test if you can/like.

UncleCrunch · June 2014

Hi,

It is now time to say things are going forward.

I worked on many things in there. Here are some screenshots :

The walls feel a little empty (if i can say that). I won't cut them in many pieces and throw props on it until I have a solid tactical report on this areas. I'm planning to add more stuff on the ceiling of course mr skulk. For now the layout need to be proven suitable for a game. So you wait a little.

Hope you enjoy.

UncleCrunch · June 2014

Hey

Some news

Change log:
2014 06 22
Better make a % for each room. So...
95% is finished but not yet tested in a proper game.

Game name		Editor			%	Note
Nano Workshop		TP Center		95%
Red Sector		Quarter circle NE	95%
Yellow Sector		Quarter circle SE	95%
Black Sector		Quarter circle SW	95%
			Q SW Hole		95%
Blue Sector		Quarter circle NW	95%
Dispatch		Connector South		95%
Bridge			RT North		15%
Captain's room		Connector N - NE	10%
Analysis		TP North East		10%
Generator		Connector NE-E		25%	This room will be totally reworked
Converter		RT East			75%
Pipelines Exchange	Connector E-SE		95%
Recycling		TP South East		15%
Pipelines		Connector S-SE		30%
Cargo control		RT South		95%
Ramps			Connector South B	95%
Holographic		Connector SW		70%
Botanic			TP South West		95%
Catwalk Access		Connector SW-E		95%
Drone maintenance	RT West			95%
Maintenance access	Connector West - NW	75%
Astro mapping		TP North West		95%
Lockers			Connector NW-N		75%
----------------------------------------
All						72%

Texture:
New ora_conduit_croisement_001 & ora_conduit_pavage_plat_001 for vents.
ora_glass_decal_001 for glass stuff.

Fixed Bug:
Solved bug "Shader is missing technique for rendering a light".
Message are spaming the console and render the editor slower and slower with time. Not the engine during game. It was a set of lights and spots accidently set with "shader fade rate = 0". So "Shadow fade rate" should never be set to 0. Editor doesn't have a search tool that would have been helpful on that case.

Now as the file grows, it's better to work without this annoyance.

UncleCrunch · July 2014

Ok guys this is no longer a WIP. I'm far beyond that.

The map is almost complete. Playable, (add)bots behave properly, so it is time to get humans into it.

Average +100 FPS (even with infestation) on a I7 3570k + AMD 7950

So far i tried to keep low the "crate" syndrome. if you feel some crates (or other obstacles) are needed on some areas for tactical purpose. We can work on that.

Feel free to play and test. Whatever the feed back as long as it is constructive is welcomed.

Hope you SCC guys can find a slot to test it. See ya on Sunday.

Here:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=262105837

The boring stuff:

TODO

*Overview.exe doesn't render map when it's a custom texture. While it looks ok in game and / or in editor. Maybe i'll have to replace these texture with NS2 original texture for a map rendering.

*Rework colors for textures
ora_sol_001

*Rework textures
ora_vaisseau_exterieur_001 (outside)
the skybox textures
remove the background galaxies and procedural nebulae clouds
Try to make a better blue galaxy (more detailed)
remove the pink galaxy (even we don't really see it).
render 2048x2048
ora_conduit_pavage_mur_001
ora_conduit_pavage_plat_001

*Make
A proper "Tube texture" for the quarter circle hole (maybe the alpha is the problem)
New posters / TV textures (quick win)
Textures for Secret room. The Mapper gods are counting on it.
Secret room (theme already selected)

*complete Locker with little props.

* Find a way to keep grate shadows and improve FPS on some areas like Black sector and Holographic. Something is wrong in there. I suspect spot with shadows enabled.

Would do:
* Animation of a drone drifting outside
*Make a animation and video with completed areas.

Change log:
2014 07 10 :
-Occlusion walls have been optimized to remove useless vertice.
-Colors in map have changed a little
The north side is blue / bright most of the time / clean
The south side is green / yellow / red / with atmospheric / darker (alien side)

Game name		Editor			%	Note
Nano Workshop		TP Center		95%	
Red Sector		Quarter circle NE	95%	
Yellow Sector		Quarter circle SE	95%	
Black Sector		Quarter circle SW	95%	
			Q SW Hole		95%	* FPS issue/ Create a texture with alpha to replace tube texture. 
Blue Sector		Quarter circle NW	95%	
Dispatch		Connector South		95%	
Bridge			RT North		95%	
Captain's room		Connector N - NE	95%	
Analysis		TP North East		90%	* It needs a proper testing before adding more props in there
Generator		Connector NE-E		90%	* It needs a proper testing before adding more props in there
Converter		RT East			95%
Exchange		Connector E-SE		95%
Recycling		TP South East		95%	* Line of sight potential issue
Pipelines		Connector S-SE		95%
Cargo 			RT South		95%
Ramps			Connector South B	95%
Holographic		Connector SW		90%	* FPS issue. Remove glass box and use wallmod props
Botanic			TP South West		95%
Catwalk 		Connector SW-E		95%
Maintenance		RT West			95%
Access			Connector West - NW	95%
Mapping			TP North West		95%
Lockers			Connector NW-N		80%	*

Pelargir · July 2014

Looks interesting, I'm kinda impatient to find out ingame this map, I hope your map will be tested & played next sunday.

Oh and personally, I didn't take a look on your 'boring stuff". hehe.

Vetinari · July 2014

Screenshots? The minimap? Anything?

UncleCrunch · July 2014

F0rdPrefect wrote: »

Screenshots? The minimap? Anything?

above this post and on steam workshop.

MauvaisVitrier · July 2014

The layout looks weird as f***

But the map looks good.
The SCC has recorded a maptest of it by the way (published today on youtube).

UncleCrunch · July 2014

Many Thx.

Here is the minimap without the texture bug

It was clear teams were unbalanced. That said; this video shows that :
Marines can go south and keep aliens busy. I do think that knowing the map better would help. We clearly see that Meatmachine and Daan were the "death dealer duo" on the second round.

I still wonder (as others) why alien surrendered on the second round. You were keeping us busy, ...truly. It means if marines focus on something; aliens have an opportunity to do something and that matters on the tactical layout.

Nano Workshop is a "one exit nest" and needs to be opened on North side.

So... what should i do ?

this :

or this

Stay the little questions
Should i add another RT point on north side, between Nano and Bridge (10Th RT) ?
More light on north side ?
A vent from Nano to North location or south ?

zipy124 · July 2014

Looks beautifull although some walls look a tad bare and need some texturing work done IMHO.

example at 8:40 in that video, the wall just looks bare to me.

Vetinari · July 2014

I'd go with the second layout; it gives marines a better way to push out. And move converter north a bit, the map is very south-heavy if you know what i mean.
A tenth RT between nano and bridge would be weird...

MauvaisVitrier · July 2014

Hmm, yeah Nano Workshop needs to be openned up. But it's easy to ARC from dispatch anyway so, I don't know if this is that essential.
Biggest problem is the two tech points in the north. It has a Veil FIVE vibe that I don't like, because it focuses the marines on the north side of the map.
This is why I like the official Veil map, because the Central North marine tech point forces marines to go both sides. When you look at it you can see the clear influence of Veil on the Outer Rim Ark design, and that's a good thing, especially with the Nano Techpoint twist that you should keep.
But my point is that the two marines tech point unbalance the whole thing.

I played a bit on the map with a few friends, we had Mapping and Botanic starts. the map is so big that we needed a first pg in Analysis (because that's a tech point) and then another one more offensive. But the one in Analysis was essential for map control. If we had only one pg, we would have lost a lot. because there are so many ways to get past the marines lines. Plus if you start in Mapping, it's very hard to pressure Recycling without a map control pg (defensive), because you have to run all the way there.

Also, I don't know what do you think about vents in the north part of the map. Being a lerk there is quite hard.

ps : I wonder if cargo is not a bit too isolated also.

pps : I think the second layout is better. Make Nano a central point of interest for both teams. It would balance the fight for map control better.
Second layout is better because there is an access path for both marines starts.

ppps: I like the left side of the map aesthetically speaking

very nice

And one last thing Botanic and Recycling are very hard to ARC imo

don't know if that's intended.

Just wanted to say also that if I'm very critical with this map, it's because I like it, you've done an awesome job and it's all meant to encourage you to go on.

Looking forward to hearing from you soon again

UncleCrunch · July 2014

MauvaisVitrier wrote: »

Hmm, yeah Nano Workshop needs to be openned up. But it's easy to ARC from dispatch anyway so, I don't know if this is that essential.

You still have to bring the ARCs in the stairs to be able to siege. So a gorge with bile on the upper ground (inside hive) can bile and i think it's fair. Still, we saw it was a little difficult to unlock.

MauvaisVitrier wrote: »

Biggest problem is the two tech points in the north. It has a Veil FIVE vibe that I don't like, because it focuses the marines on the north side of the map.

It's a 5 TP in cross configuration. It was that or a Summit cardinal point location (North, East...). Which is the same basically. Only the shape of it change.

MauvaisVitrier wrote: »

This is why I like the official Veil map, because the Central North marine tech point forces marines to go both sides. When you look at it you can see the clear influence of Veil on the Outer Rim Ark design, and that's a good thing, especially with the Nano Techpoint twist that you should keep.
But my point is that the two marines tech point unbalance the whole thing.

Well... i hate Veil (not veil5). It's a wrong map for NS2. Totally script-able. You don't even have to think of a strategy. It may be appealing for beginners because the plan is the same at every game. But after many version from NS1, and this remake. I avoid playing it. Beautiful but worthless to me on the strategic layer. NS2 is a 5 TP game. This the thing that enable real strategy.

MauvaisVitrier wrote: »

I played a bit on the map with a few friends, we had Mapping and Botanic starts. the map is so big that we needed a first pg in Analysis (because that's a tech point) and then another one more offensive. But the one in Analysis was essential for map control. If we had only one pg, we would have lost a lot. because there are so many ways to get past the marines lines. Plus if you start in Mapping, it's very hard to pressure Recycling without a map control pg (defensive), because you have to run all the way there.

I have to make a rule on the map. Like : If the marine team starts at Mapping the alien team should start at Recycling. most of the time; opposite points but not always.

MauvaisVitrier wrote: »

Also, I don't know what do you think about vents in the north part of the map. Being a lerk there is quite hard.

North is marine sided, so less vents, big rooms, less obstacle, more light, and so on.

MauvaisVitrier wrote: »

ps : I wonder if cargo is not a bit too isolated also.

On purpose. It's long to explain. It's about time to get there for alien and weakening the south a little.

MauvaisVitrier wrote: »

pps : I think the second layout is better. Make Nano a central point of interest for both teams. It would balance the fight for map control better.
Second layout is better because there is an access path for both marines starts.

ppps: I like the left side of the map aesthetically speaking very nice

And one last thing Botanic and Recycling are very hard to ARC imo don't know if that's intended.

It is. If you come from Nano, you usually select the closest room instead of another, which is better.

MauvaisVitrier wrote: »

Just wanted to say also that if I'm very critical with this map, it's because I like it, you've done an awesome job and it's all meant to encourage you to go on.

Looking forward to hearing from you soon again

I've seen worse don't worry.

UncleCrunch · August 2014

Update :

Main changes are:
a new connector that will connect Nano to the 2 north quarter Circle

Change log:


2014 08(Aug) 03
Rework colors for 
	ora_sol_001
	ora_vaisseau_exterieur_001 (outside)
	ora_conduit_pavage_mur_001
	ora_conduit_pavage_plat_001
	3/6 the skybox textures (1 Hour/render... wow)
	Generator : Moved connection to circle to create a distance between the two exits (Converter).

Make 
	Adding a new connector that will connect Nano to the 2 north quarter Circle
	A proper Tube texture for the quarter circle hole (maybe the alpha is the problem)
	New posters / TV textures (quick win)
	Textures for Secret room. The Mapper gods are counting on it.
	Secret room


No need to make a room completed status % as all are done above 95%. This map only needs: 
-Completing some connector
-Debug
-Details like soda can props and such

I have a "Face bug" that is not the invalid triangle issue. There are 2 in the map:
+1 in bridge (The captain's chair)
+1 in lockers (The pillar close to exit).
It has no effect on the game as they are small and "collision free" (if i can say it like that).

It doesn't show up in editor. Using the "move camera and save again" doesn't work either.

Pelargir · August 2014

That's cool, I added your map on the Index, just let me know if you have some description for this or background.

CyberKun · August 2014

Put this on the 40 player servers, and it should play just fine. 20 player count servers are wayyy to small, and even 24 would do nothing.

Besides that... map is large yo.

MauvaisVitrier · August 2014

Very nice. Looking forward to testing this new layout. Has it been tested yet ?
Like during tonight's SCC maptesting session

MauvaisVitrier · August 2014

I didn't know it was you Tex who made the map ! Awesome, we should talk about it on TS.

ps : we talked about the map with some other TkM/TkW players and we thought the map was too big for competitive games.
And it is only fit for at least 8vs 8 ff games. What do you think about it ?

UncleCrunch · August 2014

I'm not planning to see this map on competitive play. In fact i think no map can suit that. But i won't debate this here.

I'm working on shrinking it.
Huge work ahead but many tricks to apply. So... hope is not lost.

If i can have a marine running from any RT to the next RT using cardinal direction like North-South or East-West in between 10-13 sec it'll work.
Not to mention that on some official maps, timing are somehow out of the threshold. Another debate that won't happen here.

The main issue will be, to make sure ARCs situation are not too easy to set up.

I wonder if we can have a entity or a thing like "Tunnel allowed" but for ARCs range and other stuff. Even setting up variable like speed, gravity. I never explored that area, i must say.

MauvaisVitrier · August 2014

Btw : some minor issue here to fix in Cargo

MauvaisVitrier · August 2014

Just to let you know, the power in Botanic is not connected to the RT or CC in the same room. That became a huge problem in tonight's SCC playtest

Flaterectomy · August 2014

Yeah, looks like the location entity doesn't cover the room entirely, and the powernode is just outside it.

UncleCrunch · August 2014

It'll be fixed on the 'refit' version.
Next week end or so.

UncleCrunch · August 2014

Hi,

Back in business, the update is online.

Changelog:

2014 08(Aug) 24
Reworked the whole map. Reduced size and many things.


Noticeable changes in the layout. 

Locker 		isn't a nest anymore but a real connector (3 doors).
Converter	Changed North and south acces to be closer to glass dome.
pipeline xchang	modified 2 wall for LOS issues. Modified exit to Converter
Dispatch	No more double exits on each side. heavy shrinking.
Vent from Cargo	Reshaped
Cargo		Resized
Hole in wall	Reshape the room
Drone launch	shrunk + modified 


Every other room has been put in a vise. 


*Rework
	skybox textures 6/6. Sober but no more DDS compression ugliness in gradients.
	Texture 
		Sector sign on all texture use now "Century" font which is more "space movie" tipo.
		ora_glass_decal_001 get back to a simple Alpha shader. Now i double the glass geometry (glass + alpha) for better results.
		ora_circuit_001 is now ora_circuit_001 + ora_circuit_panel_001
		SR OLED texture in decal will do the trick
		Screenshot space invader
		Occlusion has been reworked and now is more efficient

Game 
	rules added to have opposite starting TP.
	Botanic / Analysis & Recycling / Mapping.


"Face bug" that is not the invalid triangle issue. There are 2 in the map:
+1 in bridge (The captain's chair)
+1 in catwalk angle close to pipe.

Overview.exe crashes on 268 but still save file.

The layout:

The layout with chrono

I still have to do but nothing crucial. It can wait some other updates.

More light here and there (TP also) using Ambient lights. It prevent a complete dark when PN is down.
Occlusion in center to finish
More props here and there.

Screenshots updated here:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=262105837

MauvaisVitrier · August 2014

I need to check that out as soon as I can, awesome

UncleCrunch · September 2014

Today is a cosmetic update day:

<2014 09(Sept) 03>

Tech
Finished occlusion geometry in the center
Added some "Shadow walls" to remove the bad light rendering in corners.

Porps and cosmetic: 
Decoration in vents (props, decals, textures, light set up)
Added some props in "Mapping".

Added textures
	ora_conduit_pavage_plat_002
	ora_decal_vaisseau_exterieur_jaune_001
	ora_decal_vaisseau_exterieur_jaune_002

Reworked texture
	ora_conduit_croisement_001
	ora_conduit_pavage_plat_001
	ora_vaisseau_exterieur_001

Layout:
Connected the South west vent to the TP (Botanic). But made an ugly vent exit to prevent Bile bombing from the vent. to be updated.
Resized the game entities since last patch (ladders etc..)

General note: Editor is slowing down since last patch.

It seems my checklist is all green on that update.
If you see glitches or something : screenshot or it never existed !

UncleCrunch · September 2014

Many little update:

<2014 09(Sept) 20>
Many little things done
fixed some little bugs
Improved Commander interface.

<2014 09(Sept) 19>
decal on left side of map for every hole (broken wall)

<2014 09(Sept) 18>
Add some Decal around circle hole
Added door decoration on Launch
Adjusted the other door on the other side of the wall.
Decoration on captain's chair

<2014 09(Sept) 17>
Made some adjustments on "commander invisible"
Better look for Access in commander interface
Add Reverb in Generator.

<2014 09(Sept) 14>
-Ambient Sounds and Reverb here and there.
-Some props here and there.

@MauvaisVitrier‌ : Seems ok & ready for Oct 11th.

Mephilles · October 2014

I know it's definately not what you have imagined and it's just my personal preference but I think the layout would work better like that.

It would take the central position closer to the rest of the map and marines actually would have valid natural RTs

NS2_outerrimark "Outer Rim Ark"

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