In praise of large servers

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  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Posts: 4,269 Advanced user
    edited April 2014
    Hmm, forgot about this thread. I made a blog post early hours of this morning about this topic. I was writing a game design document and it cropped up in my thought processes...

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  • VetinariVetinari Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Posts: 3,469 Advanced user
    joshhh wrote: »
    Or let them have their goofy 20v20 servers but hide them in the browser by default with a toggle. Everyones happy.

    That's... actually quite a clever solution. Add a filter: "Show no servers with more than 24 players max", or even hide it in the options. I doubt rookies are going to toggle that for a while (because they won't notice it).
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  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WIMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Posts: 1,437 Advanced user
    Thats exactly what I said on page 3 which is why I am amazed this thread has gone on as long as it has. It's simple and everybody wins.
    VetinariRegnareb
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in KodiakMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Posts: 4,771 Advanced user
    joshhh wrote: »
    Or let them have their goofy 20v20 servers but hide them in the browser by default with a toggle. Everyones happy.
    Yes there was that too.

    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
  • VetinariVetinari Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Posts: 3,469 Advanced user
    joshhh wrote: »
    Thats exactly what I said on page 3 which is why I am amazed this thread has gone on as long as it has. It's simple and everybody wins.

    *checks back*
    You actually did! I was busy defying paras... argumentation there.

    ...

    I agree that it'd be the best solution.
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  • ball2hiball2hi Members Join Date: 2012-10-22 Member: 163128Posts: 146 Fully active user
    It would be best if, like a few programs that I use do, make a small text pop-up when toggled. Stating that servers above the set limit will suffer from performance problems, and should not be used as an example of Natural Selection 2's gameplay and stability. Something along those lines.
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  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 8,194 admin
    I think there are lots of assumptions thrown around by both sides, with very little proof.
    A screenshot of the server tick rate is the only argument I need.
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
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  • VetinariVetinari Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Posts: 3,469 Advanced user
    IronHorse wrote: »
    I think there are lots of assumptions thrown around by both sides, with very little proof.
    A screenshot of the server tick rate is the only argument I need.

    Can you give me a screenshot of the effect the server has on rookies?
    Of course you can't. Neither side can.
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  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    What? A screnshot of the effect the server has on rookies?
    You mean the selfie of that moment the rookie cklicked on deinstall?
    image
    RegnarebBroseidon
  • VetinariVetinari Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Posts: 3,469 Advanced user
    dePARA wrote: »
    What? A screenshot of the effect the server has on rookies?
    You mean the selfie of that moment the rookie clicked on deinstall?

    It was an rhetorical question showing how neither side has factual evidence (or a source) for the effect they claim the server and/or it's properties has on rookies. (Which I answered by myself, btw.)
    Ironhorse said
    IronHorse wrote: »
    I think there are lots of assumptions thrown around by both sides, with very little proof.
    A screenshot of the server tick rate is the only argument I need.

    which is, of course, evidence, but for the terrible state the server is in and not for it's effects, who are still assumed to be harmful to rookies (without evidence).

    Obviously, Ironhorse can't provide a screenshot of a real life process (=the effect on rookies) that I ask for (rhetorically!) - it's physically impossible. This states how
    a) There is no proof around to back anyone's statements
    b) Acquiring such proof would be very difficult / (nigh) impossible.

    Note that "neither side can" - I'm not talking about anyone in particular here.

    This is what I wanted to say with that rhetorical question.
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  • RejZoRRejZoR SloveniaMembers, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-09-24 Member: 188450Posts: 292 Advanced user
    While faster evolving is fun, large servers also ruin half of the point of being an alien. Mostly because marines then always come in larger groups which means stalking, ambushing, cloaking and silence makes much less sense and can't be used 75% of the time, because you'll always end up being against 3+ marines. Sure your side also has the same "manpower" count but it's just not the same. In the end it all turns into a wave of one spiecis vs another one until one side wins by a lucky chance.
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  • Cannon_FodderAUSCannon_FodderAUS Brisbane, AUMembers, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-06-23 Member: 185664Posts: 877 Advanced user
    @the_tick‌, played a few rounds on your server over the weekend 30+ players and the tick rate held at 30. Was great fun. Thanks for providing the server. Yes it was mindless action, but damn was it fun (because the server performance kept up).
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  • LocklearLocklear [nexzil]kerrigan Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2012-05-01 Member: 151403Posts: 1,337 Advanced user
    edited April 2014
    Here's something that isn't an assumption but a fact.

    The client performance tanks with FPS drops and large draw calls and extra rendering from the huge player count.

    That's enough for me to steer clear.
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  • the_tickthe_tick NetherlandsMembers Join Date: 2014-01-20 Member: 193352Posts: 97
    Locklear wrote: »
    Here's something that isn't an assumption but a fact.

    The client performance tanks with FPS drops and large draw calls and extra rendering from the huge player count.

    That's enough for me to steer clear.

    I don't deny that, especially endgame is a bit of an issue in both tickrate and client fps drops, hence the concede vote ratio made a bit lower because those games are over most of the time but marines are turteling in their main base for like forever

    NS2 is a game that requires a heavy duty pc, but that has been a known fact for ages...

    @the_tick‌, played a few rounds on your server over the weekend 30+ players and the tick rate held at 30. Was great fun. Thanks for providing the server. Yes it was mindless action, but damn was it fun (because the server performance kept up).


    Well thank you for the compliment :)
    Owner of the tick's battleground servers
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