Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
@Rooky47 - I think you'll find Jambot saw the mod on steam workshop and incorporated it into his own server mod. The code is all Scatter and Deco's work.
Ran the mod on the SCC custom map test today. Was very cool to see people using the flamers a lot of people were really positive about the customization aspect.
Also reporting nerfed chain gun complaints and overly complex UI that in the context of game just takes too long for people to get setup. I think you should retain the same Armour and damage values as the existing exo's, remove the power variations too its just too much. So you just choose you left/right hand setup, and an optional utility then get stuck in.
no one used phase gates so cannot comment on that feature. Though I still think putting the upgrade on the phase gates rather than the exo's will make more sense.
Will run it again next week to give more feedback
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
There were a few problems with playing the mod earlier, mainly the marines spent ages humping the proto.
For my own perspective, I was not allowed to select welder and minigun. Why is that not an option? I had welder and flamer, welder and railgun, but not allowed welder and minigun...
I think you should retain the same Armour and damage values as the existing exo's, remove the power variations too its just too much. So you just choose you left/right hand setup, and an optional utility then get stuck in.
Current railgun situation:
-Half Damage
-Double the charge up rate
-No longer hits things behind buildings and through life forms
-Can now move at normal speed while firing (same for chaingun)
-Two railguns can charge up simultaneously
The reasons behind this is that vanilla railgun behaviour is terrible. The ultra high damage of vanilla railguns means that to balance it there is now an incredibly slow charge up rate, movement penalty and dual railgun firing restriction which makes getting the second rail pretty pointless. On the receiving end you skulks get one shot, lerks lose most of their health and get shot through buildings with ease. These things are unfun and silly for both marines and aliens and I don't really see a point in preserving them, especially since everyone has agreed that exos in NS2 are terrible on account of them rarely being researched (I haven't seen exos in a pub/pug/scrim since the triple nerf over 9 months ago).
Moreover, this isn't just about bringing in a new menu since the mod will have balance implications.
There were a few problems with playing the mod earlier, mainly the marines spent ages humping the proto.
While I want to streamline the process much more, such as streamlining the power supplies more and re-assessing how power works in general, I think this view of complexity and the consequence of people spending too long at the Proto is a result of unfamiliarity and newness. I will monitor it and more feedback as people become more familiar with it is very welcome.
For my own perspective, I was not allowed to select welder and minigun. Why is that not an option? I had welder and flamer, welder and railgun, but not allowed welder and minigun...
This is a consequence of using the railgun as the welder model and there being no model for an exo with a railgun + minigun to my knowledge. This is why rail/welder/flamer combinations are possible because they all use the railgun model. Some solutions exists and are being looked into, but that is a little bit further down the road, so for the meantime people will have to just tolerate this model crappiness
Current railgun situation:
-Half Damage
-Double the charge up rate
-No longer hits things behind buildings and through life forms
-Can now move at normal speed while firing (same for chaingun)
-Two railguns can charge up simultaneously
The reasons behind this is that vanilla railgun behaviour is terrible. The ultra high damage of vanilla railguns means that to balance it there is now an incredibly slow charge up rate, movement penalty and dual railgun firing restriction which makes getting the second rail pretty pointless. On the receiving end you skulks get one shot, lerks lose most of their health and get shot through buildings with ease. These things are unfun and silly for both marines and aliens and I don't really see a point in preserving them, especially since everyone has agreed that exos in NS2 are terrible on account of them rarely being researched (I haven't seen exos in a pub/pug/scrim since the triple nerf over 9 months ago).
I've always agreed that being oneshot at range is a terrible gameplay experience, so I can see what you are trying to do. The problem is that this change made single railguns pathetic. It is too easy for Skulks to rush it down, as once they get into melee range, it is so hard to hit with the Railgun. Not piercing buildings is also another key feature of the railgun that should not be removed. Mostly since Alien bases do end up hugging a few key buildings and it was a key feature of railgun.
A halfway change should be something like this.
-Damage falloff.
-Slighter faster charge up rate.
-Deals 20% less damage per target hit but pierces.
-Two railguns can charge up simultaneously, but slight delay between allowing them to fire.
The issue is this. There is no reason not to use a minigun with your changes. Minigun deals much better DPS. The railgun might have the range advantages, but Aliens all have to be in melee range anyways. Even in the most broken map testing of all time, the Deralect changes, where the hallways all broke the max distance, a minigun would have been more useful than your railgun.
If you are going to keep your changes, you might as well change how the railguns fire. Make it automatically charge to full and pressing attack will discharge, and only then. The reason I say this is your changes feel more like making a sniper rifle into a DRM.
ScatterJoin Date: 2012-09-02Member: 157341Members, Squad Five Blue
edited April 2014
Did some testing of the railgun tonight with some people and I can't really agree with most of the above points. You can 2 shot skulks with 1 charged burst and a normal shot well before they close the distance and it's very competitive against other life forms, while not being overly OP as a dual configuration. Others who tested it came to the same conclusion and in fact the faster charge up rate means the weapon is far more forgiving. Not to mention, if you land a hit with the rail the secondary weapon such as the fist will be sufficient to finish the skulk off while the better movement (jumping, lack of movement slow down while firing) will allow for better dodging. Recommend playing with it more and not using it like the vanilla edition.
The only thing I am considering is re-adding the piercing damage with the damage reduction per entity it passes through.
ScatterJoin Date: 2012-09-02Member: 157341Members, Squad Five Blue
edited April 2014
I never really factored the secondary weapon as critical to successful use of a single rail, only as an option if you do have a bad moment. Welder does damage too, so if you've literally missed everything and still cannot hit them while taking up to 8 bites and doing constantly fist or welder then I think maybe go with a flamethrower
ScatterJoin Date: 2012-09-02Member: 157341Members, Squad Five Blue
edited April 2014
Finally got to update this after not having much time free.
*Removed power as a requirement and removed power modules
*Weapons and modules now cost personal res only (cost have been updated in mod info)
*Fixed Flamethrower not automatically cooling down when overheated
*Fixed Welder fps drop when welding alien structures
*Re-added ability for railguns to shoot through structures (will do a damage reduction per entity in future)
The new pres only system seems much simpler and does the same job without adding the additional power currency. Currently to go to a more expensive exo config you just pay the differential rather than being stuck with the weapon or paying full cost. When you go to a less expensive config it refunds that amount, but I will change this to no refunds and it remembering the max costing config you've had.
In terms of costing I've tried to keep it similar to what is available in vanilla, with some variation above and below. A claw and welder for example aren't exactly powerful but may have some utility value.
Tested this with MvM also and it still seems to be compatible. *Edit* This isn't actually true since team 2 requires that team 1 research exos for them to be able to buy them. Will fix that.
ScatterJoin Date: 2012-09-02Member: 157341Members, Squad Five Blue
Yeah should work properly now, it was looking for kMarineTeamType but the nature of MvM is a bit more complicated. How did it play in general on regular ns2 or did you not get a chance ?
what is exactly wrong with the railgun in the first place? its not overly used in multi but still has its uses i dont see why you should mess with it at all.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Why ask the question? This mod hasn't been worked on since April/May, and isn't going to be worked on again. This was a mod, so the person making can do whatever they want
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Dual fist exo's will only be possible when the Set Bone Coords function that has been requested by Deco get's implemented. Before that, it is currently not possible.
I've been around, working on random stuff. Getting the duel fist (or any new exo stuff) to work isn't difficult, just a lot of tedious work; mirroring rigs, making sure I dont mess up anything existing, etc. When I get some free time I'll bang it out
Comments
Also the other upgrades like Fussion, what the hell does that even do?
Also reporting nerfed chain gun complaints and overly complex UI that in the context of game just takes too long for people to get setup. I think you should retain the same Armour and damage values as the existing exo's, remove the power variations too its just too much. So you just choose you left/right hand setup, and an optional utility then get stuck in.
no one used phase gates so cannot comment on that feature. Though I still think putting the upgrade on the phase gates rather than the exo's will make more sense.
Will run it again next week to give more feedback
For my own perspective, I was not allowed to select welder and minigun. Why is that not an option? I had welder and flamer, welder and railgun, but not allowed welder and minigun...
Current railgun situation:
-Half Damage
-Double the charge up rate
-No longer hits things behind buildings and through life forms
-Can now move at normal speed while firing (same for chaingun)
-Two railguns can charge up simultaneously
The reasons behind this is that vanilla railgun behaviour is terrible. The ultra high damage of vanilla railguns means that to balance it there is now an incredibly slow charge up rate, movement penalty and dual railgun firing restriction which makes getting the second rail pretty pointless. On the receiving end you skulks get one shot, lerks lose most of their health and get shot through buildings with ease. These things are unfun and silly for both marines and aliens and I don't really see a point in preserving them, especially since everyone has agreed that exos in NS2 are terrible on account of them rarely being researched (I haven't seen exos in a pub/pug/scrim since the triple nerf over 9 months ago).
Moreover, this isn't just about bringing in a new menu since the mod will have balance implications.
While I want to streamline the process much more, such as streamlining the power supplies more and re-assessing how power works in general, I think this view of complexity and the consequence of people spending too long at the Proto is a result of unfamiliarity and newness. I will monitor it and more feedback as people become more familiar with it is very welcome.
This is a consequence of using the railgun as the welder model and there being no model for an exo with a railgun + minigun to my knowledge. This is why rail/welder/flamer combinations are possible because they all use the railgun model. Some solutions exists and are being looked into, but that is a little bit further down the road, so for the meantime people will have to just tolerate this model crappiness
I've always agreed that being oneshot at range is a terrible gameplay experience, so I can see what you are trying to do. The problem is that this change made single railguns pathetic. It is too easy for Skulks to rush it down, as once they get into melee range, it is so hard to hit with the Railgun. Not piercing buildings is also another key feature of the railgun that should not be removed. Mostly since Alien bases do end up hugging a few key buildings and it was a key feature of railgun.
A halfway change should be something like this.
-Damage falloff.
-Slighter faster charge up rate.
-Deals 20% less damage per target hit but pierces.
-Two railguns can charge up simultaneously, but slight delay between allowing them to fire.
The issue is this. There is no reason not to use a minigun with your changes. Minigun deals much better DPS. The railgun might have the range advantages, but Aliens all have to be in melee range anyways. Even in the most broken map testing of all time, the Deralect changes, where the hallways all broke the max distance, a minigun would have been more useful than your railgun.
If you are going to keep your changes, you might as well change how the railguns fire. Make it automatically charge to full and pressing attack will discharge, and only then. The reason I say this is your changes feel more like making a sniper rifle into a DRM.
The only thing I am considering is re-adding the piercing damage with the damage reduction per entity it passes through.
*Removed power as a requirement and removed power modules
*Weapons and modules now cost personal res only (cost have been updated in mod info)
*Fixed Flamethrower not automatically cooling down when overheated
*Fixed Welder fps drop when welding alien structures
*Re-added ability for railguns to shoot through structures (will do a damage reduction per entity in future)
The new pres only system seems much simpler and does the same job without adding the additional power currency. Currently to go to a more expensive exo config you just pay the differential rather than being stuck with the weapon or paying full cost. When you go to a less expensive config it refunds that amount, but I will change this to no refunds and it remembering the max costing config you've had.
Preliminary weapon pres costs are:
Claw - 10
Welder - 15
Minigun - 25
Railgun - 25
Flame - 30
Utility All - 15
In terms of costing I've tried to keep it similar to what is available in vanilla, with some variation above and below. A claw and welder for example aren't exactly powerful but may have some utility value.
Tested this with MvM also and it still seems to be compatible. *Edit* This isn't actually true since team 2 requires that team 1 research exos for them to be able to buy them. Will fix that.
i want to make a boxing robot
That would be ideal of course.
I think I also might have a half finished Exo flame arm sitting around somewhere...
Great Work!!
As far as I know this mod is also in the Siegemod and the enforced exo/lucky fuckers mod.