This game should be way more fun than it is..
swansong
mk Join Date: 2013-11-04 Member: 188985Members
mk Join Date: 2013-11-04 Member: 188985Members
I've tried to like it countless times, everything about the game appeals to me, it comes so close to being such a great game and just falls down on lots of little annoying points. I really wish things could be different because I love playing the game in small bursts, but then more and more things piss me off about it and I just end up playing for a couple days and quitting for a few months... rinse repeat.
My main problem is you feel weak as an Alien and you feel weak as a Marine, I want to feel powerful as both, a good game does this, sadly NS2 doesn't. It isn't a problem with how quickly you die, I play RO2, I really love Insurgency as well and you die in one shot on those games. However the guns on those games feel powerful, when I kill someone, it feels satisfying, in NS2 this doesn't happen.
The Marine weapons are really floaty and horrible, there is no kickback, no screen shake, nothing to suggest I'm shooting a powerful gun, they just feel like Pea Shooters. I should feel weighty with all the gear on, yet I feel all floaty and all the time combat with Marines ends up them jumping around in circles while they shoot...... it looks stupid and isn't any fun to play that.
The Aliens have a problem of not knowing when you're taking damage. You can get shot, but like Max Payne 3, you'll suddenly be dead and it is like WTF? What happened? As an Alien it feels like you take a single shot and you die, yet when you're playing as a Marine, you know it takes a lot more than that. There needs to be a sound as you get hit, slow you down as well so you know you've taken a hit, lots of FPS games do this to let you know, NS2 does not and it is frustrating.
Then I have another big problem of it being very rare to find a good game. Any game you join, you will be joining the losing team and usually it is too far gone, you wont come back from it and then everyone quits at the end. It's really annoying and always happens, so you have to wait 5/10 mins into another game before the players come on again, by which point the game has gone to whoever had the better start. Half the time your commander will leave as well, then it is game over right there, sometimes you'll wait for ages to even get a commander as no one wants to play as one... yet servers still insist on them for public games... I'd rather have an alternative to the commander, some better mode for public servers. Most of the time games are so one sided though and it isn't fun, I know it is a team based game, but there are lots of team based games which get it right, you don't feel pissed off about never having fair teams all the time.
I hate transversal in the game as well, you should be able to flow around up walls and stuff as seamlessly as Ass Creed or something. Instead you get stuck on all the little bits that stick out of the wall or if you're trying to run up a little overhang to get to a vent, you cannot and end up falling off all the time. The camera not rotating just makes things harder, especially when running on ceilings, you expect the keys to do one thing and you end up just falling off. I just wish I could have a rotate mode for it, would make it 100 times easier. I like Unreal Engine 3 because all these bits aren't polygonal, they're built into the texture, when you see pop in you see how square everything is without them. So when you're running around the map, you don't keep getting stuck on little bits sticking out all the time, half the shit in this game shouldn't have collision, it makes things not smooth for the speed of the game.
Brings me onto Alien vision and the map..... why do we have to keep pressing c as Aliens? A mini map would make things so much more fun, instead I'm constantly hitting C to check the map and that is not fun gameplay. Also the Alien vision just ruins the graphics, it is like that stupid Bat Vision thing, I wanna see the graphics in all their glory, but because that vision is so superior, I just end up looking through that all the time. If Aliens have it, then why don't Marines have Night Vision or Thermals? That makes no sense since we haven't gone back in time...
The performance and finding a server.. no one wants to join an empty server, all the 24 person servers are usually full, why can't I just have a server queue so I can wait instead of having to be pissed off before I've even got in the game? I've tried 16 players, I've tried 30 players and I just think 24 players is the sweet spot, they always tend to be the full ones too.
The performance is just terrible, none of my friends play for this reason, constantly either got lag from the servers (which is really common) or they had like 20fps in the base with constant stuttering. I suffer from this a bit, I have a beefy PC and still have bad performance, most people don't though and sadly turning down the graphical settings doesn't help all that much. Why I don't get why they made their own engine, wasting so much time making something bad, they could have just licensed one out and had the game running much better from the get go.
Finally I know I've mentioned this before, but I just don't find the combat all that fun. The guns are floaty, you feel weak on either side, and they always end up in Marines circle strafing and jumping up and down constantly... it is ridiculous! Marines should be slower, they shouldn't be able to jump all the time in that gear, they should have jump stamina. Aliens need a better system of letting you know when you're getting hit, that is their big reason to why they aren't as fun as they should be, I also think leap takes too long to unlock, it is such a fun skill, really annoying I barely ever get to use it.
Another thing we barely get to use is the Onos/Mechs, they're really fun and yet games barely go that far, when you finally get them and upgrade them, the match is almost over... especially if you die, you wont be getting another one again tbh. Where is the fun? Just balance everything so we can use it all much sooner, that or make games more balanced so they last longer. Only a handful of games ever last long enough and are balanced enough to be fun, I just get sick of wasting so much time with the game on lows, like for every good game, you have about 5 crap ones.
I love the concept of the game, the core mechanics are all there, I just wish'd it was a bit different. Sadly it isn't like a crazy popular genre where I can just go and play another version, this really is unique, there is nothing else out there that I can replace it with, why it makes it even more annoying.
My main problem is you feel weak as an Alien and you feel weak as a Marine, I want to feel powerful as both, a good game does this, sadly NS2 doesn't. It isn't a problem with how quickly you die, I play RO2, I really love Insurgency as well and you die in one shot on those games. However the guns on those games feel powerful, when I kill someone, it feels satisfying, in NS2 this doesn't happen.
The Marine weapons are really floaty and horrible, there is no kickback, no screen shake, nothing to suggest I'm shooting a powerful gun, they just feel like Pea Shooters. I should feel weighty with all the gear on, yet I feel all floaty and all the time combat with Marines ends up them jumping around in circles while they shoot...... it looks stupid and isn't any fun to play that.
The Aliens have a problem of not knowing when you're taking damage. You can get shot, but like Max Payne 3, you'll suddenly be dead and it is like WTF? What happened? As an Alien it feels like you take a single shot and you die, yet when you're playing as a Marine, you know it takes a lot more than that. There needs to be a sound as you get hit, slow you down as well so you know you've taken a hit, lots of FPS games do this to let you know, NS2 does not and it is frustrating.
Then I have another big problem of it being very rare to find a good game. Any game you join, you will be joining the losing team and usually it is too far gone, you wont come back from it and then everyone quits at the end. It's really annoying and always happens, so you have to wait 5/10 mins into another game before the players come on again, by which point the game has gone to whoever had the better start. Half the time your commander will leave as well, then it is game over right there, sometimes you'll wait for ages to even get a commander as no one wants to play as one... yet servers still insist on them for public games... I'd rather have an alternative to the commander, some better mode for public servers. Most of the time games are so one sided though and it isn't fun, I know it is a team based game, but there are lots of team based games which get it right, you don't feel pissed off about never having fair teams all the time.
I hate transversal in the game as well, you should be able to flow around up walls and stuff as seamlessly as Ass Creed or something. Instead you get stuck on all the little bits that stick out of the wall or if you're trying to run up a little overhang to get to a vent, you cannot and end up falling off all the time. The camera not rotating just makes things harder, especially when running on ceilings, you expect the keys to do one thing and you end up just falling off. I just wish I could have a rotate mode for it, would make it 100 times easier. I like Unreal Engine 3 because all these bits aren't polygonal, they're built into the texture, when you see pop in you see how square everything is without them. So when you're running around the map, you don't keep getting stuck on little bits sticking out all the time, half the shit in this game shouldn't have collision, it makes things not smooth for the speed of the game.
Brings me onto Alien vision and the map..... why do we have to keep pressing c as Aliens? A mini map would make things so much more fun, instead I'm constantly hitting C to check the map and that is not fun gameplay. Also the Alien vision just ruins the graphics, it is like that stupid Bat Vision thing, I wanna see the graphics in all their glory, but because that vision is so superior, I just end up looking through that all the time. If Aliens have it, then why don't Marines have Night Vision or Thermals? That makes no sense since we haven't gone back in time...
The performance and finding a server.. no one wants to join an empty server, all the 24 person servers are usually full, why can't I just have a server queue so I can wait instead of having to be pissed off before I've even got in the game? I've tried 16 players, I've tried 30 players and I just think 24 players is the sweet spot, they always tend to be the full ones too.
The performance is just terrible, none of my friends play for this reason, constantly either got lag from the servers (which is really common) or they had like 20fps in the base with constant stuttering. I suffer from this a bit, I have a beefy PC and still have bad performance, most people don't though and sadly turning down the graphical settings doesn't help all that much. Why I don't get why they made their own engine, wasting so much time making something bad, they could have just licensed one out and had the game running much better from the get go.
Finally I know I've mentioned this before, but I just don't find the combat all that fun. The guns are floaty, you feel weak on either side, and they always end up in Marines circle strafing and jumping up and down constantly... it is ridiculous! Marines should be slower, they shouldn't be able to jump all the time in that gear, they should have jump stamina. Aliens need a better system of letting you know when you're getting hit, that is their big reason to why they aren't as fun as they should be, I also think leap takes too long to unlock, it is such a fun skill, really annoying I barely ever get to use it.
Another thing we barely get to use is the Onos/Mechs, they're really fun and yet games barely go that far, when you finally get them and upgrade them, the match is almost over... especially if you die, you wont be getting another one again tbh. Where is the fun? Just balance everything so we can use it all much sooner, that or make games more balanced so they last longer. Only a handful of games ever last long enough and are balanced enough to be fun, I just get sick of wasting so much time with the game on lows, like for every good game, you have about 5 crap ones.
I love the concept of the game, the core mechanics are all there, I just wish'd it was a bit different. Sadly it isn't like a crazy popular genre where I can just go and play another version, this really is unique, there is nothing else out there that I can replace it with, why it makes it even more annoying.
Comments
Snowballing, res control, gradual tech, these are all important parts of RTS games, and an important part of this game. Imagine if you played an RTS and superweapons were available inside 2 mins, lol.
Most of your other points are subjective, you have some kernels of issues, and some things you are missing the point, not understanding why they are like they are. I don't want to say L2P, because I am possibly the worst NS2 player in the world, but at least learn to understand why things are the way they are.
Interestingly, your point about Alien Vision is completely opposite what most people seem to be asking for, they want a return to the old Alien Vision that people never turned off. Oh, and marines have a 'FlashLight' that is their dark vision. You do realise the Alien Vision is intended to only be used when it is dark don't you?
As for the quality of games, well that is a problem when people don't understand enough about the depth and tactical requirements of the game.
View rotation causes sickness and that is why it is not in the game.
many people, I dare to say the majority, who play the game like the combat as is. (perhaps a slight change here and there as people always complain)
marines are drugged up with nanobots and aliens on bacterium so there is no physical reason to hold them back of non shaky aim, constant running & jumping. Aliens are specific bred for this task and marines are spawned from a special material.
Difference in skill is the main reason many public matches are inbalanced.. you will notice matches becoming quite awesome the more balanced they are. Joining comp teams or communities helps in this goal.
The lack of commanders is 100% the players fault. In general players do not listen to commanders, ignore everything he/she says, and when a newbie finally comms (because noone is going to) he/she is spit out due to being new. Experienced commanders get fedup of being spit out by players who dont listen and think they know how to play (but obviously lack any experience).
You will again notice in matches where the team listens to their comm, that those comms are willing to command more matches.
The damage taken & how it shows is pure preference. Many players dislike to many visual signs, so the direct opposite of you. Cant please everyone. Seems UWE went for a middle ground. (yes this is a assumption, I didnt ask)
rotating with wall climbing was tried out in beta, if I reread old PT posts they posted, and discarded. Nausea and stuff. Also the speed with changing directions didnt work well. Stuff like that. (ask a pt for more info.. @ironhorse ahem)
Getting stuck is just learning terrain. Its part of how the system works with non rotate, to my knowhow.
NS2 is balanced on both sides having NOT the same tech. Aliens dont have a minimap but have hivemind & their special vision.
On alien vision whole topics can be found. People dont agree, its that simple. SOme adore the new vision, some want the old one. Never is everyone happy.
24 slot servers are NOT the sweet spot, those are 18. 24 slots are the official maximum support size, anything bigger is hacked larger. 24 slot servers run, often barely. If you mostly play on 24 slot then there is your performance problem. Check net_stats 1. Server rate (tickrate) should be 30. Big servers often drop to 5. Only very well maintained can keep rates on 24 slots.
As a comparison, competitive is 6 vs 6 so 12 slots. So the bare minimum. So 18 is just in the middle.
ANyone running 24+ is kidding themselves. Both in terms of server rates & balance, the game is never designed for that many.
Clients need a lot of cpu and preferably no mods. But it truly sounds your performance can be found in big servers. Note that sucky (read cheap) onboard network cards like realtek gobble up additional CPU power with bigger servers. So its a scaling problem. Good quality dedicated network cards dont have this problem.
If you play more balanced matches you will see your high tech like onos and exo's a lot more.
Hope it helps.
It's kind of hard to take that seriously, and therefore most of your post. But still...
Yes, performance is an issue, and always has been, unfortunately. The server browser has gotten better over time, but personaly, I've never had too much trouble finding decent servers (i.e. not 24 players). Also, if having/not having commanders bothers you, try combat mode.
As for the weapon feel, I get what you mean, but this game is more like Quake than a military shooter, so things like recoil and screen shake are not expected. Although I wouldn't mind poppier weapon sounds.
The marine hopping... well, you're gonna open up a can of worms there, because it's been debated before. Imo, hopping is a part of the game. The challenge and fun of playing alien mainly comes from trying to catch these powerfull, nanobot-infused super soldiers. If marines couldn't dodge like they do, playing aliens would be way too easy, and we'd have to re-balance the entire game from scratch. Btw, marines DO have stamina when they jump. Get your facts straight.
What about the hit indicator + bloody screen + your lifeform screaming in pain? I think you may be refering to a problem with the lag compensation, where you get killed practically instantly, before you even see the guy shooting at you. That can often be circunvented by not being a stationary target, but yes, the problem does exist.
Falling off ceilings does happen every once in a while, and while annoying, I wouldn't consider it a major problem. As for the camera staying in the same position, that is a purposeful design choice that others have asked about before. The idea is to avoid dizziness when the skulk wall jumps, or makes rapid transitions.
Not having a minimap as aliens is also done on purpose, assymetrical balance yo. But I completely agree on the alien vision. Not only does it plain suck, it strains your eyes, and is only marginally useful in the darkest of rooms. marine flashlights are also supposed to be weak, so aliens have an advantage in the dark.
Finally, your onos/exosuit point. Personaly, I find those parts of the game to be the least fun and skill-based, but the fact that you don't see them often is a sign that the servers you're playing on are not very balanced, as games end before those things get researched. Exos in general aren't very practical or cost-effective, but that's a topic for another discussion.
And no need to be insulting guys or feel insulted, I agree with a lot of his statements and it would be foolish to assume it's impossible to think that.
They come back again and again from casual and veteran, perhaps there is a reason to that. It is not an insult to you or the game, it's just it.
The sad thing is that it will never be corrected and we (I?) don't care anymore, it's too late and can't be fixed.
1) It's called camera animations
2) You definitely don't want it going completely 180 degrees, trust me I've messed with it before and it's not good at all.
The high interp and overall bad server performance definitely causes a more than acceptable amount of cases of instant death or large health loss before the damage indicators come up in any timely manner.
The game's causes, effects, and feedbacks need to make intuitive sense to the new player. I mean, the animation smoothing lag is ridiculous enough by itself.
I don't agree with most of OP's points, but you're not going to hear me deny the issues that real world ns2 'netcode performance' and collision has. That's just doing everyone a dis-service
Seems like this game just may not be the game for the OP.
(chuckle)
So lets say there is a great barrier to overcome (not just skillwise) to stick to the game and once you overcome it you see behind the wall and realize that you actually missed out a lot first, but its all there.
A lot of player and especially those that never played NS1 won't be making it over that wall, which is quite high to be honest.
We all made it, or most of us here in the forum did. What gives us the right to say: "No its not like that" or "I disagree" when the OP is describing his valid concerns when he's looking at the impediment.
All we can do is spurt the new guys on and maybe ask for changes here and there (which don't go unheard e.g. indicator for unbuilt stuff).
Because this is how UWE intended the game to be.
70 interp and 50 mr ns2, with less than 20 players (what the game is designed for)
yep, because the average pubber will play only on passworded custom scrim servers that are overclocked to the moon.
Even at custom scrim server settings, it's still pretty noticeable.
Oh, and mind telling me the update rate? That;s right, fixed at 20.
The game is only bad when the players participating are bad.
EDIT: On the bright side, at least the average player skill in NS2 isn't as bad as Loadout's. Fuck me that game is riddled with really bad players.
You're doin it wrong!
In all seriousness, there are some issues with the game for sure. But it is balanced around 6v6, the reason for a lot of your issues; (Dying in 1 shot, feels that way because there are 5 marines shooting you; Performance, 24 players on the server; Games are over by the time you join, 12v12 are almost always 1 sided; etc.) is because you are playing on the wrong server.
As far as not feeling powerful; again, I think you are looking for a different game. This game isn't a power fantasy, you feel strong and confident when you move adeptly with your team, communicating and succeeding, not because you are Rambo, but because you are seal team 6.
It sounds to me like "everything about the game appeals to me" is somewhat of an inaccurate statement. There is nothing wrong with the experience you are looking for, it just isn't here.
Please install the beta and join gathers, or better (for now) register at www.ensl.org
You keep claiming how you feel invincible as a lerk. I play lerk competitively, and let me tell you even when I end up having an amazing round, I still feel VERY vulnerable as lerk. An organised game with 5 marines on the field (spread out) who can aim well and know how and when to trap lifeforms is a fantastic thing. But it's terrifying for a lerk. No sooner than you've gone around a corner to see 2 marines, you're on half health. I'm not even exaggerating.
It's like playing command and conquer with Engineers that cost next to nothing, aren't consumed on ability use and fight as well as infantry.
Or the nearly 90% chance the opposing players will half your initial population through an 'ability card' during the first round.
Great stuff, but NS2 is better, as it focused on the Marine vs Skulk and importance of strategic map locations right from the start. If you are going to mix and match game genres, get the basics of each right, then apply the silly trading cards/ pointless location screens with animated but non interact able characters.
Edit "It's kind of hard to take that seriously, and therefore most of your post. But still..." - yep, I'm sure the vast majority of players are incorrectly evaluating what they feel as 'fun' in this game.
Probably with time I could get used to a lot of the things, but that's asking quite a bit of commitment already. The game just doesn't feel crisp enough that I'd get excited about trying to pull off awesome stuff in it.
Stop posting rubbish.
What on earth are you on about? When you take damage the screen flashes red, even showing you the direction the damage came from. When you're low on health your hearing is drastically reduced and you can hear your heartbeat. Very similar to many AAA franchise games.
Also, everyone needs to check the HUD lol. It's one of the first things you learn how to do when you play a game. You'll get the hang of it eventually
ORRRRRR you can come fight me with your fades/lerks. Ill only use mines :X
The AAA bloody screen effect isn't exactly what I'm looking for. It tells me when I'm almost dead. What I'm looking for is the way to have constant awarness of how much damage I'm taking, preferrably the sources and such communicated also. Usually you want to be making decisions when you're halfway hurt at max, not when you're dying to the next parasite or spit or so. If the rest of the damage communication works, you don't really need the bloody screen anyway, you're constantly aware of the taken damage anyway.
As for HUD checking, I damn sure know how often I should check it. The difference is that in most games you have far better grasp on when you should be checking it. In NS2 I feel I need to check it constantly all the time while in other games I can get a grasp on when I'm taking noteworthy punishment and then proceed to check my HP and move on from there. From example in NS1 I have very natural grasp of my HP, up to a point where its almost subconscious and I'm constantly able to tell how many potential damage chunks I can take and so on. Meanwhile in NS2 I have to put extra effort into managing my HP, just to be able to handle the basic stuff. I'm not sure on what I'm missing, but I find NS2 to be practically the only game where I have such problems.
Could you guys clarify a bit on what exactly should happen if a skulk gets a bite on me? Let's say I face a skulk and shoot him down while he gets to take a bite near me. What are the differences if he misses and if he lands the bite? I remember having such situations and feeling really awkward because I had to go to my HUD to figure out whether I had been hit.
Feedback to the user should feel intuitive. If it doesn't, it isn't good - there's really nothing more to say. This isn't a point up for contention as you seem to think it is. Acclimatisation to bad design is not an excuse to carry on with bad design.
As marine I distinquish hits and misses by sound. If he hits, you get this "PFDSH" kind of sound, instead of just that "BWRG" kind of sound. You know what I'm sayin?
I don't think it is that important to know that you got hit, though. The comm needs to know, sure, but you actually wouldn't have to know. It's not like you could avert your death by knowing how many times you got hit. I just try to concentrate on shooting and dodging the best I can.