I found base clock for the 3570k was still too crappy for fps for this game. Needed over 4.0ghz.
I am running 4.5GHz and it isnt enough for smooth gameplay )
The game will never play smoothly unless they change how the view portals for loading new map sections work. You could have the most bad ass computer on earth and even then the manual geometry portals for occlussion will bring your computer to a screeching halt when you round a corner.
I am not sure how this performance problem has been in the game for so long. It manifests on every computer you play the game on.
Actually I don't see that when I play, but I'll try to pay more attention in the future.
Or maybe it is because of my i7-4930K @3.40GHz and GTX770?
Careful, all that hot air in your head may reduce your CPU performance...
See that's the whole point, why do we have to get 4.5+ ghz cpu to play a game with such below average graphics?
Optimization, this game has none.
Do you know how a computer works? Graphics are done by a Graphics card, not the CPU.
The high CPU is required because of the LUA script. This game is made to be highly moddable, and is written in LUA, which unlike C++ is not a compiled language, it is a interpreted language. You need a high CPU to run the code. Your lack of understanding on how the game & computers work, completely invalidates your silly statement.
See that's the whole point, why do we have to get 4.5+ ghz cpu to play a game with such below average graphics?
Optimization, this game has none.
Do you know how a computer works? Graphics are done by a Graphics card, not the CPU.
The high CPU is required because of the LUA script. This game is made to be highly moddable, and is written in LUA, which unlike C++ is not a compiled language, it is a interpreted language. You need a high CPU to run the code. Your lack of understanding on how the game & computers work, completely invalidates your silly statement.
I think his question is valid though. Better CPU does equal better FPS, whatever graphics card you have. So it is quite logical for anyone having issues with the game to complain about requiring such high specification CPUs to run it smoothly, while all other games released at the same time as or after NS2 run fine. I speak from personal experience. Arma 3 played much much smoother for me on my 5yr old PC than NS2, despite being released about a year after NS2!
I am not questioning the high CPU requirement, which I explained the need for, I was merely correcting his mis-guided statement:
Why do we have to get 4.5+ ghz cpu to play a game with such below average graphics?
Ah okay, but I think that's just a grammar fail. He probably means to ask why he needs such a high speed CPU to play a game without "low" settings for graphics? I.E. he expects less requirements to play the game on low. Or maybe I'm being too generous...?
I found base clock for the 3570k was still too crappy for fps for this game. Needed over 4.0ghz.
I am running 4.5GHz and it isnt enough for smooth gameplay )
The game will never play smoothly unless they change how the view portals for loading new map sections work. You could have the most bad ass computer on earth and even then the manual geometry portals for occlussion will bring your computer to a screeching halt when you round a corner.
I am not sure how this performance problem has been in the game for so long. It manifests on every computer you play the game on.
Actually I don't see that when I play, but I'll try to pay more attention in the future.
Or maybe it is because of my i7-4930K @3.40GHz and GTX770?
Careful, all that hot air in your head may reduce your CPU performance...
I was serious... I never noticed what he was talking about with that computer. Since he excluded the problem to be hardware related but in the engine, I am asking myself if that is really true, or if I am just not seeing it.
Actually I don't see that when I play, but I'll try to pay more attention in the future.
Or maybe it is because of my i7-4930K @3.40GHz and GTX770?
It is definitely there on all rigs and is simple pretty to reproduce. It has a correlation with GPU utilization. For example, if your GPU is running at 99% pumping out 120 fps, rounding a corner will choke the GPU momentarily and bring it down to like 30fps for a split split second causing the game to stutter.
On the other hand... if your GPU is running at like 40% utilization and getting 120fps (whether by lowering settings or having a crazy good GPU)... the current crazy spike in GPU utilization from rounding a corner will not cause your fps to drop noticably, if at all. I have labbed it a whole bunch even on multiple configs.
The game is essentially punishing anyone who has high GPU utilization due to how it handles occlussion culling. A very strange performance quirk.
What settings do you run at and what is your GPU utilization while playing the game on an empty server and running around?
See that's the whole point, why do we have to get 4.5+ ghz cpu to play a game with such below average graphics?
Optimization, this game has none.
Do you know how a computer works? Graphics are done by a Graphics card, not the CPU.
Seems like its you who doesnt know how a computer works. CPU and GPU arent mutually exclusive. The CPU makes the draw calls to the GPU etc. Both play a factor.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Unfortunately, he is talking about the QUALITY of the graphics. Graphics quality is nothing to do with the CPU. Draw calls will be the same either way.
Unfortunately, he is talking about the QUALITY of the graphics. Graphics quality is nothing to do with the CPU. Draw calls will be the same either way.
Why does lowering the quality in settings then give you more frames/make the game smoother on a CPU bottlenecked system?
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
The game is CPU bottlenecked when you have plenty of players and entities around - ie, in heavy combat.
On an empty server, or in the pregame, the game is normally GPU-bottlenecked. And that's normally when you fiddle around with your graphics settings. Which is why you see the change in fps.
Try tracking your worst-case fps during a game with various graphics settings. My prediction is that you won't see much of a difference.
I was serious... I never noticed what he was talking about with that computer. Since he excluded the problem to be hardware related but in the engine, I am asking myself if that is really true, or if I am just not seeing it.
You are just not seeing it if you are not GPU bound
It sucks and i hate it so much.. its the last REAL hitching that occurs for me. (seems to happen at the worst time too, leaping skulks etc)
ScatterJoin Date: 2012-09-02Member: 157341Members, Squad Five Blue
Yeah I am well versed in all this and have everything on low and resolution at 1600x900 l. My cpu runs 4.4 ghz and I have an 780ti so certainly no slouch.
Fps starts of good and drops to 60 fps late game which is borderline unplayable. Why does 60 to 100 fps in this game feel like half that amount ?
Yeah I am well versed in all this and have everything on low and resolution at 1600x900 l. My cpu runs 4.4 ghz and I have an 780ti so certainly no slouch.
Fps starts of good and drops to 60 fps late game which is borderline unplayable. Why does 60 to 100 fps in this game feel like half that amount ?
Agree, the mouse behaviour still doesn't feel right. Maybe it's mostly in my head, but it doesn't feel smooth and responsive with higher fps as you would expect
The game is CPU bottlenecked when you have plenty of players and entities around - ie, in heavy combat.
On an empty server, or in the pregame, the game is normally GPU-bottlenecked. And that's normally when you fiddle around with your graphics settings. Which is why you see the change in fps.
Try tracking your worst-case fps during a game with various graphics settings. My prediction is that you won't see much of a difference.
I'm talking about actual gameplay, and I've played the game on 2 different CPU's and 2 different GPU's "on the same system". If you are CPU bottlenecked reducing graphics settings does help.
And I have done numerous benchmarks with the game. I dont know whats going on but its clearly evident there is a performance problem and it seems no one knows why/what it is.
FPS isnt reliable to measure if a game actually plays out smoothly anyway. Time and time again people have said even though they have great FPS in this game it doesnt feel smooth.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
@scatter@elodea
Matso discovered some potentially interesting news about that today, but I wont steal his thunder and will wait for him to divulge that stuff :-)
Its juicy though, and promising, that much i will tease..
Actually I don't see that when I play, but I'll try to pay more attention in the future.
Or maybe it is because of my i7-4930K @3.40GHz and GTX770?
It is definitely there on all rigs and is simple pretty to reproduce. It has a correlation with GPU utilization. For example, if your GPU is running at 99% pumping out 120 fps, rounding a corner will choke the GPU momentarily and bring it down to like 30fps for a split split second causing the game to stutter.
On the other hand... if your GPU is running at like 40% utilization and getting 120fps (whether by lowering settings or having a crazy good GPU)... the current crazy spike in GPU utilization from rounding a corner will not cause your fps to drop noticably, if at all. I have labbed it a whole bunch even on multiple configs.
The game is essentially punishing anyone who has high GPU utilization due to how it handles occlussion culling. A very strange performance quirk.
What settings do you run at and what is your GPU utilization while playing the game on an empty server and running around?
I'm not having that problem. My gpu is running at 90-99% utilization and I'm getting about 120fps, but no stutter and the lowest my frames ever drop is still >60 and completely unrelated to "rounding a corner". That "problem" is when I am looking at a large number of active objects, such as an overfull hive room. I could gather some benchmarking data if it would interest you. 4670k overclocked at 4.6ghz and a 770gtx 4gb, oddly enough I have noticed that ns2 seems to be using nearly 3gb of graphics memory.
I just upgraded by motherboard, ram and CPU spending around £500 on the set up and then overclocking to 4.7ghz. I now run in full hd (was 1080x760) and get around the same fps as I did before with my poorold i2400 @ 3.2ghz. HOWEVER, the game feels soooo smooth and 120 fps feels like 120 fps.
Still get drops to around 60 in 24 player severs which is mad as I run bf4 in ultra on 64 player servers and get no less then 70fps but then again my other 7 cores don't get utilised, or so I've heard.
All in all I could play competitive quite
Comfortably and play on 16/18 player servers with a shitty 2400 and Gtx 550 as long as I dropped the resolution to as low as I could handle. Ns2 feels like a new game now though XD
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
Agree, the mouse behaviour still doesn't feel right. Maybe it's mostly in my head, but it doesn't feel smooth and responsive with higher fps as you would expect
Yea, I just found a bug in the Spark Engine that causes the game to behave worse at high fps. The latency-change detector is too sensitive and slightly buggy, so the client spends most of its time chasing a false latency change signal. The speed at which it chases is 2ms per frame, so at 60fps it constantly shifts between running 12% (each frame takes 16ms, 2ms change per frame = 2/16 -> ~12%) too fast and 12% too slow, while at 200 fps it shifts between +40% and -40% (5ms/frame, 2 ms change per frame -> ~40%).
As this changes 20 times per second (every time the client receives an update from the server), it averages out and may be too fast to "see" (like how our brains stiches movie frames together); but you just feel that something isn't quite right.
This is probably the source both of the mouse responsiveness not being quite right and a feel that the movement isn't quite as smooth as the fps says it should be - at least I think so from my single-player/empty server testing.
I've submitted a patch (oh, thanks for the old assets @Soul_Rider - this was the bug I was referring to), I have high hopes that it will get fixed (the fix is rougly a 5-liner; just introduce a low-pass filter on the latency detector and the chase amplitude drops to <1%).
@matso that's great, do you think this will be hotfix material, or wait until the patch after the WC stuff? Could be helpful for the WC guys, too of course!
Agree, the mouse behaviour still doesn't feel right. Maybe it's mostly in my head, but it doesn't feel smooth and responsive with higher fps as you would expect
Yea, I just found a bug in the Spark Engine that causes the game to behave worse at high fps. The latency-change detector is too sensitive and slightly buggy, so the client spends most of its time chasing a false latency change signal. The speed at which it chases is 2ms per frame, so at 60fps it constantly shifts between running 12% (each frame takes 16ms, 2ms change per frame = 2/16 -> ~12%) too fast and 12% too slow, while at 200 fps it shifts between +40% and -40% (5ms/frame, 2 ms change per frame -> ~40%).
As this changes 20 times per second (every time the client receives an update from the server), it averages out and may be too fast to "see" (like how our brains stiches movie frames together); but you just feel that something isn't quite right.
This is probably the source both of the mouse responsiveness not being quite right and a feel that the movement isn't quite as smooth as the fps says it should be - at least I think so from my single-player/empty server testing.
I've submitted a patch (oh, thanks for the old assets @Soul_Rider - this was the bug I was referring to), I have high hopes that it will get fixed (the fix is rougly a 5-liner; just introduce a low-pass filter on the latency detector and the chase amplitude drops to <1%).
Wow.
Thanks so much.
Any chance at looking into the view portal hitching that IronHorse, Myself, and lots of others get?
See that's the whole point, why do we have to get 4.5+ ghz cpu to play a game with such below average graphics?
Optimization, this game has none.[/quote]
Do you know how a computer works? Graphics are done by a Graphics card, not the CPU.
The high CPU is required because of the LUA script. This game is made to be highly moddable, and is written in LUA, which unlike C++ is not a compiled language, it is a interpreted language. You need a high CPU to run the code. Your lack of understanding on how the game & computers work, completely invalidates your silly statement.
[/quote]
Amb is just trolling everyone (see all the necros he made), just ignore him.
Agree, the mouse behaviour still doesn't feel right. Maybe it's mostly in my head, but it doesn't feel smooth and responsive with higher fps as you would expect
Yea, I just found a bug in the Spark Engine that causes the game to behave worse at high fps. The latency-change detector is too sensitive and slightly buggy, so the client spends most of its time chasing a false latency change signal. The speed at which it chases is 2ms per frame, so at 60fps it constantly shifts between running 12% (each frame takes 16ms, 2ms change per frame = 2/16 -> ~12%) too fast and 12% too slow, while at 200 fps it shifts between +40% and -40% (5ms/frame, 2 ms change per frame -> ~40%).
As this changes 20 times per second (every time the client receives an update from the server), it averages out and may be too fast to "see" (like how our brains stiches movie frames together); but you just feel that something isn't quite right.
This is probably the source both of the mouse responsiveness not being quite right and a feel that the movement isn't quite as smooth as the fps says it should be - at least I think so from my single-player/empty server testing.
I've submitted a patch (oh, thanks for the old assets @Soul_Rider - this was the bug I was referring to), I have high hopes that it will get fixed (the fix is rougly a 5-liner; just introduce a low-pass filter on the latency detector and the chase amplitude drops to <1%).
We need more of this, having to play the game with lowest settings on 3570K@4.5GHz and Radeon HD 7970 is heartbreaking.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2014
@shonan - I was using a c2d E7400 and a HD5770, on lowest settings, getting around 50-60fps but now I have a 4670k@4.4ghz and a 560ti, but I can run on high with around 130-150fps. What other settings are you using, because you should not need to run on lowest settings with your rig...
Comments
depends on ur resolution/fov, if u want max fov at 1080p you're going to need a decent/good gpu with a quad core at like 4.5ghz~
Add in the nsl maps or whatever low lights and you should have a really highframerate for the whole match
See that's the whole point, why do we have to get 4.5+ ghz cpu to play a game with such below average graphics?
Optimization, this game has none.
Careful, all that hot air in your head may reduce your CPU performance...
Do you know how a computer works? Graphics are done by a Graphics card, not the CPU.
The high CPU is required because of the LUA script. This game is made to be highly moddable, and is written in LUA, which unlike C++ is not a compiled language, it is a interpreted language. You need a high CPU to run the code. Your lack of understanding on how the game & computers work, completely invalidates your silly statement.
I think his question is valid though. Better CPU does equal better FPS, whatever graphics card you have. So it is quite logical for anyone having issues with the game to complain about requiring such high specification CPUs to run it smoothly, while all other games released at the same time as or after NS2 run fine. I speak from personal experience. Arma 3 played much much smoother for me on my 5yr old PC than NS2, despite being released about a year after NS2!
Why do we have to get 4.5+ ghz cpu to play a game with such below average graphics?
Ah okay, but I think that's just a grammar fail. He probably means to ask why he needs such a high speed CPU to play a game without "low" settings for graphics? I.E. he expects less requirements to play the game on low. Or maybe I'm being too generous...?
It is definitely there on all rigs and is simple pretty to reproduce. It has a correlation with GPU utilization. For example, if your GPU is running at 99% pumping out 120 fps, rounding a corner will choke the GPU momentarily and bring it down to like 30fps for a split split second causing the game to stutter.
On the other hand... if your GPU is running at like 40% utilization and getting 120fps (whether by lowering settings or having a crazy good GPU)... the current crazy spike in GPU utilization from rounding a corner will not cause your fps to drop noticably, if at all. I have labbed it a whole bunch even on multiple configs.
The game is essentially punishing anyone who has high GPU utilization due to how it handles occlussion culling. A very strange performance quirk.
What settings do you run at and what is your GPU utilization while playing the game on an empty server and running around?
Seems like its you who doesnt know how a computer works. CPU and GPU arent mutually exclusive. The CPU makes the draw calls to the GPU etc. Both play a factor.
Why does lowering the quality in settings then give you more frames/make the game smoother on a CPU bottlenecked system?
On an empty server, or in the pregame, the game is normally GPU-bottlenecked. And that's normally when you fiddle around with your graphics settings. Which is why you see the change in fps.
Try tracking your worst-case fps during a game with various graphics settings. My prediction is that you won't see much of a difference.
It sucks and i hate it so much.. its the last REAL hitching that occurs for me. (seems to happen at the worst time too, leaping skulks etc)
Fps starts of good and drops to 60 fps late game which is borderline unplayable. Why does 60 to 100 fps in this game feel like half that amount ?
I'm talking about actual gameplay, and I've played the game on 2 different CPU's and 2 different GPU's "on the same system". If you are CPU bottlenecked reducing graphics settings does help.
And I have done numerous benchmarks with the game. I dont know whats going on but its clearly evident there is a performance problem and it seems no one knows why/what it is.
FPS isnt reliable to measure if a game actually plays out smoothly anyway. Time and time again people have said even though they have great FPS in this game it doesnt feel smooth.
Matso discovered some potentially interesting news about that today, but I wont steal his thunder and will wait for him to divulge that stuff :-)
Its juicy though, and promising, that much i will tease..
I'm not having that problem. My gpu is running at 90-99% utilization and I'm getting about 120fps, but no stutter and the lowest my frames ever drop is still >60 and completely unrelated to "rounding a corner". That "problem" is when I am looking at a large number of active objects, such as an overfull hive room. I could gather some benchmarking data if it would interest you. 4670k overclocked at 4.6ghz and a 770gtx 4gb, oddly enough I have noticed that ns2 seems to be using nearly 3gb of graphics memory.
Still get drops to around 60 in 24 player severs which is mad as I run bf4 in ultra on 64 player servers and get no less then 70fps but then again my other 7 cores don't get utilised, or so I've heard.
All in all I could play competitive quite
Comfortably and play on 16/18 player servers with a shitty 2400 and Gtx 550 as long as I dropped the resolution to as low as I could handle. Ns2 feels like a new game now though XD
Yea, I just found a bug in the Spark Engine that causes the game to behave worse at high fps. The latency-change detector is too sensitive and slightly buggy, so the client spends most of its time chasing a false latency change signal. The speed at which it chases is 2ms per frame, so at 60fps it constantly shifts between running 12% (each frame takes 16ms, 2ms change per frame = 2/16 -> ~12%) too fast and 12% too slow, while at 200 fps it shifts between +40% and -40% (5ms/frame, 2 ms change per frame -> ~40%).
As this changes 20 times per second (every time the client receives an update from the server), it averages out and may be too fast to "see" (like how our brains stiches movie frames together); but you just feel that something isn't quite right.
This is probably the source both of the mouse responsiveness not being quite right and a feel that the movement isn't quite as smooth as the fps says it should be - at least I think so from my single-player/empty server testing.
I've submitted a patch (oh, thanks for the old assets @Soul_Rider - this was the bug I was referring to), I have high hopes that it will get fixed (the fix is rougly a 5-liner; just introduce a low-pass filter on the latency detector and the chase amplitude drops to <1%).
Thanks so much.
Any chance at looking into the view portal hitching that IronHorse, Myself, and lots of others get?
I would not use the ingame FPS limiter. It has strange behavior. If you can, limit your FPS outside of NS2 using Radeonpro or Nvidia Inspector.
Optimization, this game has none.[/quote]
Do you know how a computer works? Graphics are done by a Graphics card, not the CPU.
The high CPU is required because of the LUA script. This game is made to be highly moddable, and is written in LUA, which unlike C++ is not a compiled language, it is a interpreted language. You need a high CPU to run the code. Your lack of understanding on how the game & computers work, completely invalidates your silly statement.
[/quote]
Amb is just trolling everyone (see all the necros he made), just ignore him.
We need more of this, having to play the game with lowest settings on 3570K@4.5GHz and Radeon HD 7970 is heartbreaking.
Combine those with the (maxfps ###) command to reduce high fps fluctuations... and you will find a much more enjoyable experience.