I'd like to have total invisibility when stationary for skulks.
It is related to the fundamental latency problem: moving player always has around 150ms advantage, so skulk ambushes don't work as intuitive as they should. Skulks have to attack _before_ they even see marines coming around the corner. You can never get a surround in the room, no way to start the offensive from the last marine of the group.
Its not only about the balanace, its about player game style to! i hate shit hive it makes the game more restain. Its more dependend on commanders if thay scan and if thay do halucinations with drifters. And this hive is only good at the begining in late games being silent or knowing where enemy is, is not giving the team edge to overcome hive lockdown.
I don't see a huge problem with any of these buffs by themselves per se.
It's just that as I understand it, shade isnt underused because it's particularly bad, it's just that a couple of individual perks of shift/crag are pretty much essential to higher life forms while there's nothing with the equivalent utility to be gained from researching shade.
The first version of shade did that indirectly. The shade as 1st hive upgrades were allowing to get a good portion of the map. Map control did give RTs, and res income. So by the time fades come out (not the same price as today if i remember correctly); it was more or less the same time you get the second hive (and upgrades). Depends of course on how things went.
Then some whiners said it was OP and developers did nerfed it. Now in comp mode silence is separated from Invisibility... camouflage... Phantom. It would have worked if many hiding spots in maps weren't removed as well. Also because of whiners.
The only times i see it used is when team one knows team two will loose anyways. It's not a bad start but you got to make sure you get the map control. Other than that it fails. It's the plan that looks the most like a poker game.
There is also the issue with a team that is not organized enough. I do Shift regularly on public servers because, simply, I got no one to cover RTs and / or to build. Teleporting RTs is cheaper than have tons of drifters.
Now stays :
-Crag for brute force (or resist) ability. See premier league games. Brutal 2D thinking. I really can't see cleverness anymore in this. It's like a frag count.
-Shift for the lag vs speed advantage... If the game improve technically speaking, it'll be subject to change.
Good times...
I would have voted for a 3rd plan in marine tech tree. Like asked before on NS1. Not a specifically tailored counter but something that allow to struggle.
people just need to stop saying "always shift first".
jesus christ i hate that shite.
ive won as many games going shade first as ive lost.
its all about the players. commanders just need to grow balls and go shade on darker maps.
It depends on who is on the other team. Great teams go for what is the most efficient. It started when the skulk had been "bricked" because of obvious technical issue like lag. So people needed carapace or speed to get closer to the target before dying.
On public servers if you're team isn't clearly superior : don't try (believe me).
Shade hive is honestly under-rated.
You'd be amazed how much higher-skilled players rely on sounds for their tracking.
Getting your skulks silence is like cutting the marine teams ears off. (might aswell be, infact)
Except that if the commander do know (scan or marine on aggression mode in hive) that the 1st hive is shade; all marines will behave differently on every door step. One serving as a bait... yum yum... but not for the skulks. Defeating aura isn't that difficult.
Perhaps veils can get their per-cost dropped to 10 instead of 13? You only get the full benefit of phantom-silence at veil 3, whereas Shell 2 and Spur 2 are quite decent already.
Otherwise, I think Phantom/Aura is good enough for Lerks & Fades to choose their engagements. Only gorge suffers cause you don't have Adren for bile bomb to turn around a bad situation, and the Onos. But if you can't get a 2nd hive up by Onos popping the game was already likely lost.
Comments
It is related to the fundamental latency problem: moving player always has around 150ms advantage, so skulk ambushes don't work as intuitive as they should. Skulks have to attack _before_ they even see marines coming around the corner. You can never get a surround in the room, no way to start the offensive from the last marine of the group.
shade is really only strong in a 6v6
Also agree that a large number of people still stick to old meta, but thankfully that's changing.
The first version of shade did that indirectly. The shade as 1st hive upgrades were allowing to get a good portion of the map. Map control did give RTs, and res income. So by the time fades come out (not the same price as today if i remember correctly); it was more or less the same time you get the second hive (and upgrades). Depends of course on how things went.
Then some whiners said it was OP and developers did nerfed it. Now in comp mode silence is separated from Invisibility... camouflage... Phantom. It would have worked if many hiding spots in maps weren't removed as well. Also because of whiners.
The only times i see it used is when team one knows team two will loose anyways. It's not a bad start but you got to make sure you get the map control. Other than that it fails. It's the plan that looks the most like a poker game.
There is also the issue with a team that is not organized enough. I do Shift regularly on public servers because, simply, I got no one to cover RTs and / or to build. Teleporting RTs is cheaper than have tons of drifters.
Now stays :
-Crag for brute force (or resist) ability. See premier league games. Brutal 2D thinking. I really can't see cleverness anymore in this. It's like a frag count.
-Shift for the lag vs speed advantage... If the game improve technically speaking, it'll be subject to change.
Good times...
I would have voted for a 3rd plan in marine tech tree. Like asked before on NS1. Not a specifically tailored counter but something that allow to struggle.
It depends on who is on the other team. Great teams go for what is the most efficient. It started when the skulk had been "bricked" because of obvious technical issue like lag. So people needed carapace or speed to get closer to the target before dying.
On public servers if you're team isn't clearly superior : don't try (believe me).
Except that if the commander do know (scan or marine on aggression mode in hive) that the 1st hive is shade; all marines will behave differently on every door step. One serving as a bait... yum yum... but not for the skulks. Defeating aura isn't that difficult.
Otherwise, I think Phantom/Aura is good enough for Lerks & Fades to choose their engagements. Only gorge suffers cause you don't have Adren for bile bomb to turn around a bad situation, and the Onos. But if you can't get a 2nd hive up by Onos popping the game was already likely lost.