What I meant was, that every time I've seen Howser give me or others advice on map making, he is quick to openly share the most surgical advice on how to create a map from scratch to finish, that could eventually come close to industrial standards. It's clear that he has gathered his wisdom on mapping from hard work and genuine interest for the subject. That makes him a extremely valuable theacher, when you want to make your map fun, balanced and fine tuned for good gameplay.
I just know for a fact that Howser is really humble and that he would never encourage people to not follow what they wanted to do with a project, so I'd just love to see that attitude shine a little brigther than the "Right" attitude.
Both prison and this coming map wants to be proper ns2_ maps, so the input Howser have given me and you are spot on.
I wasen't really trying to discredit him in any way, just to try to nuance his personality a little, some stuff he would view as a waste of time, could be treasured by folks like me who just want what isn't logical
Back on topic, I'll be home the 3rd to discuss my idea with you. I won't do a complete write up in here if we decide against it anyway. Here is a concept piece though
The basic idea is to have marine start be doom3 themed with two portals nearby, leading to the rest of the map taking place in an advanced race long abandoned temple. It's hard to sell it without all my stuff on the pc, so I will eleborate when I get home!
Did you draw that???
I like your idea, but do you think it would work without the portals? I'm not a huge fan of portals because I believe it makes camping one spot FAR too easy. Not only do you have no way of flanking the position (unless you take the long way around of course), but you also have no idea of what is on the other side until you put yourself in harms way (no quick way to retreat through portals). That was my problem with ns2_co_portals. It seemed like every game just degenerated into camping the portals outside marine start.
I'm by no means locked on the portals, my initial idea was just having two big excavation rooms where the TSF arcs had blasted the tempel walls to give marines access. Think loki's ramp from water production to the hallway along the biodome, just much bigger. I started pondering on the portal approach because of eclipse, I had your concerns but I think there is a way around. You could be able to see where you were ported, for example having them in the same room, but on diffrent levels separated by a window, which you could then smash a hole in and do a jump path with crates to create an alternative route. My biggest mind cracker with the portals is how cysts would ever leave the tempel section of the map, you'd only be able to get infestation into marine start by dropping those new tumors.
I'm by no means locked on the portals, my initial idea was just having two big excavation rooms where the TSF arcs had blasted the tempel walls to give marines access. Think loki's ramp from water production to the hallway along the biodome, just much bigger. I started pondering on the portal approach because of eclipse, I had your concerns but I think there is a way around. You could be able to see where you were ported, for example having them in the same room, but on diffrent levels separated by a window, which you could then smash a hole in and do a jump path with crates to create an alternative route. My biggest mind cracker with the portals is how cysts would ever leave the tempel section of the map, you'd only be able to get infestation into marine start by dropping those new tumors.
How about we just have a portal, but only as an alternate route, and the main routes are these blasted through zones?
BeigeAlertTexasJoin Date: 2013-08-08Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
edited January 2014
Vert^, I'm liking your idea more and more: having an ancient non-human, non-kharaa temple to fight in... one that inexplicably contains resource nodes and tech points, no doubt! :P It's a great excuse to create a bunch of custom props, and I think starts this map off in a very unique direction.
Where did you find this concept art? Did you have a layout in mind?
nah i prefer to make "sets" like i describe in the suggestion thread.
Plus
-the -1 thing force the engine to work more
-If a texture is not symmetric (writings) you can't.
-Humans look for object only in a library. Our brains like shortcuts.
nah i prefer to make "sets" like i describe in the suggestion thread.
Plus
-the -1 thing force the engine to work more
-If a texture is not symmetric (writings) you can't.
-Humans look for object only in a library. Our brains like shortcuts.
Forces the engine to work more? I would have thought it'd work LESS, as it's just an instance of another asset, rather than having to store/retrieve twice the number of objects and textures.
And not like that. A catwalk and a rail can be assembled in many different ways. It doesn't require more memory if done properly. like reuse existing objects in different manners. In fact it would save more.
BeigeAlertTexasJoin Date: 2013-08-08Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
Well we'll need to build our props with that in mind: ie the catwalk would be built with each component being separate (the floor, the rails, etc.) That way they can be mixed up and matched in any combination.
Anyways, an update on what's going on: Vert^ has a larger write-up of his design that we're waiting to see. He's participating in the custom map cup, so we won't see that until February... which is fine by me, I'm in no hurry here.
Also, @UncleCrunch , I still need to add you to the steam group. Can you add me on steam?
BeigeAlertTexasJoin Date: 2013-08-08Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
Alright, we're starting to move on this thing again. First up is the layout and theme (not details, the THEME as this will impact the layout). Vert^ and I have discussed a lot tonight, and I have reposted the discussion on the steam group's boards.
Will everybody on the team please take a look at this proposal?
Non mapper here, but curious. How did you get that hand drawn image into spark. Is it just a texture? I think that i awesome you are mapping around it.
Non mapper here, but curious. How did you get that hand drawn image into spark. Is it just a texture? I think that i awesome you are mapping around it.
Yea it's just a custom texture mapped onto a plane.
So now, the name of the game is testing testing testing. The next step, before we even THINK about adding detail, is to get the layout finalized. As it is right now, the layout is simply a work in progress. At the time of writing, it is UNTESTED, so I'm sure problems will be found that will need to be fixed before we can begin detailing the map.
Comments
Did you draw that???
I like your idea, but do you think it would work without the portals? I'm not a huge fan of portals because I believe it makes camping one spot FAR too easy. Not only do you have no way of flanking the position (unless you take the long way around of course), but you also have no idea of what is on the other side until you put yourself in harms way (no quick way to retreat through portals). That was my problem with ns2_co_portals. It seemed like every game just degenerated into camping the portals outside marine start.
How about we just have a portal, but only as an alternate route, and the main routes are these blasted through zones?
What i can do can be seen on map station t10.
Following the thread a little i may add.
This game desperatly needs more props. Like not only the "left turn" available. Make more complete kits.
I'll take a look at your map later today.
What do you mean "left turn?"
Where did you find this concept art? Did you have a layout in mind?
Sometime you have the left sided version but not the right sided version. Catwalks, rails etc...
Of course i'm talking about non symmetric props.
Ah I see. For catwalks, I just set the x scale to -1 or something to flip it around.
Plus
-the -1 thing force the engine to work more
-If a texture is not symmetric (writings) you can't.
-Humans look for object only in a library. Our brains like shortcuts.
Forces the engine to work more? I would have thought it'd work LESS, as it's just an instance of another asset, rather than having to store/retrieve twice the number of objects and textures.
And not like that. A catwalk and a rail can be assembled in many different ways. It doesn't require more memory if done properly. like reuse existing objects in different manners. In fact it would save more.
Anyways, an update on what's going on: Vert^ has a larger write-up of his design that we're waiting to see. He's participating in the custom map cup, so we won't see that until February... which is fine by me, I'm in no hurry here.
Also, @UncleCrunch , I still need to add you to the steam group. Can you add me on steam?
Will everybody on the team please take a look at this proposal?
Anybody who still wants to join is welcome.
Here's some screenshots of what it's looking like now.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/v4evm1bjnfhas2h/Y9gph43Ec4
Yea it's just a custom texture mapped onto a plane.
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/134800/ns2-temple
So now, the name of the game is testing testing testing. The next step, before we even THINK about adding detail, is to get the layout finalized. As it is right now, the layout is simply a work in progress. At the time of writing, it is UNTESTED, so I'm sure problems will be found that will need to be fixed before we can begin detailing the map.