power node liability

soccerguy243

I just saw the aliens pull a win out of their gorge butt by simply ignoring the marines and their arcs. They all charged in and killed the power node at the main base. They ignored all the expensive structures. I though UWE wanted this game to be PvP not PvE.

Was it good team work? sure. Was it good strategy? sure, but its only viable because the power node is a single-point liability. Its needs to be babysat. So the marines have to babysit their arcs AND babysit their powernode.

Power surge is a band-aid "solution" to power cuts.

A possible solution:
Unpowered structures don't cause marines to lose upgrades (an unpowered Arms lab doesn't cause A0). However marines can't use the structure (can't buy jetpacks from an unpowered prototype lab, can't get health from the armory, etc). Do uncysted alien shells, spurs, and veils cause aliens to lose their upgrades?

start at 23:00

Al_Bobo

I don't see anything wrong with the current powernode system. Sure, it's a weak spot in marines' base, but commanders just have to be vigilant and beacon fast enough. If the whole alien team managed to sneak to marine base, then it's marines fail if they didn't notice lack of aliens defending and commander's fail to scan.
Phase gate is usually near arcs so it is very possible to babysit powernode among other structures.

ForlornHope

The comm should have known to expect it. When you make a push against a team that is losing against you or/and you are all out of position, a rush is very likely. When when all aliens suddenly stop attacking and disappear for a while then you should be ready for it.

He should have been scanning for their location, had the team ready to phase back and been expecting to have to beacon.

soccerguy243

@al_bobo, @ForlornHope, both of your alibis are, beacon sooner. But a beacon wouldn't have stopped an ALL-IN rush. The play showcased above wasn't a just a standard rush. It was an ALL-IN, they were gonna go no matter what. You also fail to address the fact that all the marines were in the base as the aliens hit the powernode. You also fail to notice the marine comm did scan the incoming attack. So your arguments of: beacon sooner, scan/be vigilant, fail to sufficently, IMO, disprove the powernode liability.

Moreover even if the marine comm is expecting it, he is forced to abandon his arcs, obs, and armory near the hive.

This ALL-IN rush on the powernode is only viable because it is a huge liability for marines. None of your counter-points have made me reconsider the weakness that is the powernode.

ForlornHope

Ok, if we are addressing this particular instance and not the general problem you mentioned.

- They were at level 3 weapons but didn't have a 2nd tech point. Bad idea.
- 2 rines went into the corridor to meet the aliens. Bad idea.
- No armoury wall to stop the obvious incoming rush from the known about onos. Bad idea.
- No GL to deliver massive amounts of damage to the large concentration of aliens. Bad idea.

Yes, it is hard to stop but especially so when you do nothing to prevent it. No IPs elsewhere mean you can't power surge to phase gate in or beacon. There were no reenforcements coming and that was the problem here, not the health of the node.

If they had put an armoury up, the aliens would have either over commited, losing everything and the game, or the aliens would have run off never to try it again. Aliens took a huge risk and it paid off. Also, if rines had taken out all the smaller lifeforms and worked up to the bigger ones. It would have been 2 onos verse the rine side with jetpacks and shotties. Rines would have probably won that and got the power back up.

maD_maX_

Beacon, Don't put robo in main base, Drop some nano on the powernode, use a robo/armory to limit access to powernode, position obs to see them comming, back up arms lab at second tech point, and get a forward obs at PG so you can remote beacon while aiding your push team

If you didn't control a second tech point, marines were the ones trying to do a last ditch victory.

If you don't have 2 chairs your asking to lose, 5 skulks and a drifter can destroy a chair faster then a beacon...

soccerguy243

So the marines have to do all those extra steps to reduce the powernode's liability?

I don't get how the marines are supposed to construct extra armories for a wall, a second CC and IPs all while constructing a forward base (of arcs).

I don't about you but i've rarely seen another command chair in all the comp game's i've watched.

SUPER_SARS

soccerguy243 wrote: »

@al_bobo, @ForlornHope, both of your alibis are, beacon sooner. But a beacon wouldn't have stopped an ALL-IN rush. The play showcased above wasn't a just a standard rush. It was an ALL-IN, they were gonna go no matter what. You also fail to address the fact that all the marines were in the base as the aliens hit the powernode. You also fail to notice the marine comm did scan the incoming attack. So your arguments of: beacon sooner, scan/be vigilant, fail to sufficently, IMO, disprove the powernode liability.

Moreover even if the marine comm is expecting it, he is forced to abandon his arcs, obs, and armory near the hive.

This ALL-IN rush on the powernode is only viable because it is a huge liability for marines. None of your counter-points have made me reconsider the weakness that is the powernode.

They should have beaconed sooner. It would have allowed them to fully take use of their jps and engage earlier and start eating into the onos's health. Also the comm really wouldnt be sacrificing any of his arcs, obs, and armory near the hive cause all the aliens were in on the all in, theres nobody left to take it out. Even if the aliens left 1 gorge behind to bile the pg was right there, all they had to do was step right through and kill the gorge. And in a trade I would keep your base over anything else. Oh btw, a nano on the power node would have won it for the marines, focus fire on the onos would have helped too.

BestProfileName

soccerguy243 wrote: »

@al_bobo, @ForlornHope, both of your alibis are, beacon sooner. But a beacon wouldn't have stopped an ALL-IN rush. The play showcased above wasn't a just a standard rush. It was an ALL-IN, they were gonna go no matter what. You also fail to address the fact that all the marines were in the base as the aliens hit the powernode. You also fail to notice the marine comm did scan the incoming attack. So your arguments of: beacon sooner, scan/be vigilant, fail to sufficently, IMO, disprove the powernode liability.

Moreover even if the marine comm is expecting it, he is forced to abandon his arcs, obs, and armory near the hive.

This ALL-IN rush on the powernode is only viable because it is a huge liability for marines. None of your counter-points have made me reconsider the weakness that is the powernode.

I have an interesting note on this.

I was commanding on Biodome as the marines and we were dominating. I caught, out of the corner of my eye, several red dots coming from between Canopy and Reception (forget the name). I immediately beaconed. About 2 seconds after my marines returned the power went down. Despite all my meds, my marines still got cleared and we lost. I think this is a strategy vastly underrated right now, in that once you've gotten the IPs and Arms Lab out of the way, you can crush with fades, lerks and an Onos with the Gorges decimating all 30 of your armour. A possible counter is to power surge the arms lab but then you sacrifice the IP.

I think this is a problem that manifests itself on the bigger servers - in this case I had about 11 aliens bashing the shit out of the power node, rather than a more realistic number of 3-5.

Edit: Yes I nano'd the powernode.