Achievements System. Helps Retain players.

BeerTentBeerTent Members Join Date: 2012-11-11 Member: 169639Posts: 52
With the addition of Hive and Skill tracking, we're probably inevitably see NS2 gain it's own Stats tracking separate of NS2stats.

So, why don't we add Achievs?
Achievements are included within games to extend the title's longevity and provide players with the impetus to more than simply complete the game but find all of its secrets. They are effectively arbitrary challenges laid out by the developer to be met by the player. These achievements may coincide with the inherent goals of the game itself, such as completing a level, with secondary goals such as finding secret power-ups or levels, or may also be independent of the game's primary or secondary goals, such as playing a certain number of times, viewing a video, beating a certain number of online opponents or completing a level in a certain amount of time.

There are numerous different methods of implementation, from DoD:S's method of having a slew of "weapon mastery" Achievs, or we could look toward Dystopia's grouping of "try everything once." Minecraft's Tutorial based grouping of Achievements can also help curious players. "Oh, I should build POWER before the Extractor?" Not to mention, nothing like the feeling of having the fact you punched an Onos to death in a Exo being immortalized on your profile.

Achievements aren't entirely bad. They're just bad if they need to fill in a quota. (20 gamerscore for joining a server, yay!) For a large number of people, having Steam pop up in the corner saying you did something amazing, brings about a good feeling. If anyone else has seen a NS2 Developer command, we know that UWE wants that good feeling. Should NS2 contain a stats tracking option, these could be implemented in such a way so that if Tracking is disabled, so are the achieves. Furthermore, Workshop integration says to me that the Steam API is in there somewhere, so including it, provided the engine can support it, shouldn't be a major hassle. Just a timesink.

What do you think? Nothing wrong with that feelgood we're all playing for, right?
IeptBarakatOmega_K2Zahl

Comments

  • dragonmithdragonmith Members, Reinforced - Diamond Join Date: 2013-02-04 Member: 182817Posts: 429 Fully active user
    I want an achieve for killing onos for welder :P

    I like the idea, but not any "kill this many X with Y". NS2 needs fun ideas!

    -Hello? - Join an empty server.
    -Try decaff - drop 5 items on different marines in 7 seconds / use 6 abilities in 4 seconds as Karm.
    -Sharing is caring - pass a weapon around 5 different marines.
    -Tank - Fully upgraded onos (and biomass), or duel exo with A3 and nanoshield.
    -Commanders pet - Receive medkit, cat pack, nanoshield and 2 dropped weapons in a game.
    -New jetta - Hope in an exo with a jetpack on.

    Also inset obligatory beacon to power out room, sell an under attack building (not an extractor) or weld a power node rather than build it back up.
    Howser is da BEST!
  • AurOn2AurOn2 COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS! AustraliaMembers, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140224Posts: 2,130 mod
    Achievements don't help retain players, in the long term anyway. it's effort that's really not worth wasting on something that won't have any long term use for a playerbase.
    Send me a private message if you need me to kill someone "help" with anything.

    The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, “You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I’m just not close enough to get the job done.” - George Carlin.

    Youtube Channel for Sydney Music
  • HeatSurgeHeatSurge Some Guy Members, Reinforced - Supporter Join Date: 2012-09-15 Member: 159438Posts: 1,188 Advanced user
    They're fun, but they do hardly anything for retention :-) .
  • Omega_K2Omega_K2 Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2011-12-25 Member: 139013Posts: 558
    edited November 2013
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    Achievements lead to people ruining pub play even more than usual by saying to themselves "screw playing to win, I need 50 welder kills and I'm getting them".

    Depends on the achivements implemented and on the people, whether they try to go farm them or not. They can be supplemental to teamplay, such as "weld x points of marine armor as marine".

    Though technically everything stats/achievement like could lead to farming. But anyway, achievements or challanges are thing for some people I don't think it would hurt unless they are really stupid (like the welder kills :P)
    German Slaughterhouse | GS Servers | Server Hardware
    IGN: [#OMEGA] - K2 (Hive)

    NS2 long standing issues (Fix ETA: Never):
    Bad Netcode (no adjustable tickrate, extremly delayed hit feedback, bad hitreg),
    Bad Performance (Poor Multi-threading, Mouse Lag, bad server performance, almost no multi-threading in server application)
    Bad Balance (GL Spam, semi-useless exos, poor chance of comebacks, no upkeep/or RT dimishing returns...)
    Technical Issues (Mouse Lag, Memory Leaks, Memory Corruption (and memory corruption server crashes))
    Bad Workshop implementation (down = kicks people/connection prboelms, out of date = nobody can join server),
  • BeerTentBeerTent Members Join Date: 2012-11-11 Member: 169639Posts: 52
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    Achievements lead to people ruining pub play even more than usual by saying to themselves "screw playing to win, I need 50 welder kills and I'm getting them".

    I agree with this, which is why we need to pick and choose our achievements a little more carefully. Avoid achievements that some players may defer to helping out, instead, offer more tutorial style achievements, or achievements that Dragonmith suggested. Things we can likely get through normal gameplay, such as his commander's pet suggestion. Other ones might include...

    "Separated" - As an alien commander, deploy a Bone Wall next an exosuit, and have your teammates kill it within 15 seconds.

    "Alien Firebase" - As an alien commander, construct a Shade, Shift, Whip, and Craig in a room next to an enemy Tech Point.

    "Master Ambush" - As a Skulk, kill a marine that hasn't fired it's weapon once.

    "Mobile Wall" - As an Onos, use your Bone-shield to prevent Marines from shooting the hive.

    "It's gone!" - As a Fade, use vortex and kill a Marine.

    "Don't tread on me!" - While in an exosuit, kill 5 aliens with both your primary weapon and a claw.

    "Do the Fire-Dance!" - As a Marine, prevent a Whip from attacking your teammates with a flamethrower.

    "Technology behind the TSF" - As a Marine Commander, unlock all technology for your teammates in a single game.

    We'll want to aim for things we'd want to achieve through normal gameplay, not things we'd want to work for. So going the Minecraft/Dystopia route of smaller achievements like "Kill two enemies with spider mines." or "Kill a Skeleton from 50 meters away." We'd want to avoid achievements like "kill 50 enemies with your hatchet/welder."

    And while this may largely retain players for the smaller term, this may encourage more people to play longer than they would have, get a little better, and continue to enjoy the game for longer. It's not going to save NS2 from a dwindling playerbase, only constant, consistent updates can do that, but it can help increase the impact of those free weekends.
    Zahl
  • Omega_K2Omega_K2 Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2011-12-25 Member: 139013Posts: 558
    Also as a bit of follow up to my other post, I think there could be badges associated with achievements, so people can show these off. There is a reason you see it in a lot of games these days, people really like stuff like that. And if done right shouldn't be intrusive to gameplay
    German Slaughterhouse | GS Servers | Server Hardware
    IGN: [#OMEGA] - K2 (Hive)

    NS2 long standing issues (Fix ETA: Never):
    Bad Netcode (no adjustable tickrate, extremly delayed hit feedback, bad hitreg),
    Bad Performance (Poor Multi-threading, Mouse Lag, bad server performance, almost no multi-threading in server application)
    Bad Balance (GL Spam, semi-useless exos, poor chance of comebacks, no upkeep/or RT dimishing returns...)
    Technical Issues (Mouse Lag, Memory Leaks, Memory Corruption (and memory corruption server crashes))
    Bad Workshop implementation (down = kicks people/connection prboelms, out of date = nobody can join server),
    JEwDizzle
  • ScatterScatter Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2012-09-02 Member: 157341Posts: 635 Advanced user
    A game with a small but high quality community versus a game with a large but low quality community. Not a hard choice for me.
    AurOn2GISP
  • FreekerFreeker FranceMembers, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-10-28 Member: 188858Posts: 39
    Not sure that will help retain player but i like the idea and most of the data are already recorded on hive/ns2stats so why not use them?
    As previously said, it still has to be "normal gameplay" achievement. Don't want to see half of the team suiciding on 2 onos to get that welder kill achievement ^^
  • xen32xen32 Members, Reinforced - Supporter Join Date: 2012-10-18 Member: 162676Posts: 1,011 Advanced user
    Sad fact is that many achievements will require additional computing power, i.e this is just a simple counter: Don't tread on me or Technology behind the TSF.
    But Mobile Wall and Do the Fire-Dance would require some prediction to analyze what would happen if onos was not there or if whip was not on fire. And the game will have to check these things constantly. As we all know, NS2 code runs slooooow.
    meatmachine
  • meatmachinemeatmachine South EnglandMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2013-01-06 Member: 177858Posts: 1,551 Advanced user
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    Achievements lead to people ruining pub play even more than usual by saying to themselves "screw playing to win, I need 50 welder kills and I'm getting them".
    While I agree, it IS entirely possible the achievements could be tailored to act somewhat like an introduction to the game, i.e. we could not have silly achievements :P

    Or what I was thinking, have tiered achievements- each set unlocks only when the previous set is completed. All the meaningful, srs achievements that require some skill to get would be low-tier, then once you get to the high tier stuff like onos welding becomes important ;)
    Too weird to live, yet too rare to die
  • Scorpion9908Scorpion9908 Australia Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-07-29 Member: 186445Posts: 79 Advanced user
    UWE have said no to achievements in a past post saying it will just lead people to achievement hunt and not play as a team

    Daxxjostol
  • dragonmithdragonmith Members, Reinforced - Diamond Join Date: 2013-02-04 Member: 182817Posts: 429 Fully active user
    @Scorpion

    Achievement : teamplayer - work with your allies


    It really depends on the achievements (eg. 100 kills a big nono). Or we could go the Tornbanner route and have said achievements never work :P
    Howser is da BEST!
  • PseudoKnightPseudoKnight Members Join Date: 2002-06-18 Member: 791Posts: 1,356 Fully active user
    I was a big proponent of no achievements early on, but if they're carefully tailored to encourage/reward things that are almost always good actions, then I can see it working well to retain certain players that need ANY sense of progress (which is increasingly more common). Certain tasks should be avoided if it's going to disrupt gameplay. Commander achievements shouldn't even exist, unless it's pertaining to a tutorial. I think this can be done safely, if done well.
    meatmachine
  • ZahlZahl Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-02-21 Member: 13802Posts: 32 Advanced user
    The argument against achievements because it would cause achievement hunting instead of team play is flawed. Because it depends on added achievements which incentivize this. As long as the achievements are well thought out, you can actually promote teamwork and good tactics.

    Achievements, earnable badges, everything that rewards more time played for some reason actually seems to keep people interested and stick to a game. You see it in different games, but also in total different area's such as scuba diving training. Earnable rewards, getting that next level, it just works.

    The problem with "kill 50 aliens with axe" achievements, is that you get that one idiot running around with only his axe and never shooting. This rewards the wrong behaviour. So avoid such achievements. You can put conditions on the achievement to avoid this, or just not go to high amount of kills, but just a single kill.

    I am no programmer, so I might be wrong, but if achievements take such an amount of computing power, you can design it that it is totally client-side, optional and configurable. In other words the players run it themselves and if their computer can not handle it, they can deactivate it. And separate achievements into two categories, low computing power and higher computing power required. Put detection of simple achievements, which require little computing power on by default. And higher computing power achievements have to be turned on manually.
    A lot of the statistics are already counted by the game, kills, deaths, assists. Using these numbers should not cost a lot of computing power.









    Achievements to avoid:
    X amount Axe/welder/parasite kills
    Basically any achievement which you can earn faster by ignoring the game and not assisting your team.



    Achievements to use:
    Finish off an alien with your handgun (requirement have done 80% dmg with assault rifle, ammo clip empty)
    Finish off an alien with your axe (requirement have done 80% dmg with assault rifle and handgun, must kill alien with 1 axe hit)
    Finish him, kill an alien or marine with 1 attack
    Kill x amount of skulks, Kill x amount of gorges etc
    Master Technician, build the power to 99%, the building to 100% and then finish the power.
    Gorge of the day, heal an RT up to 100% that had less than 25% hitpoints left
    50 Marine wins
    50 Alien wins
    50 commander wins
    Early base rush win
    60 min game win (or loss) (promotes people not conceding games or leaving, when they tide turns slightly against them)
    Unkillable, 20 kills no death (counter resets if you do not kill, build or assist for more than 120 seconds)
    Recycler, lose your gun on death and get it back 3 times in a row, same gun
    Outfitted, buy a welder within 60 seconds of the first armory being build, during the game carry a welder around 90% of the time and use it at least 10 times
    Trained Recruit, during a marine game follow all of the commanders waypoints and never go in the opposite direction
    Resourced, win a game without having lost a single Resource Tower (minimum of 5 resource towers).
Sign In or Register to comment.