Please allow us the option of forcing default skins/models

Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
It's great that people have donated to you guys, and it's fair for them to get something to show off in return. However, I would like the option to choose whether I personally will see any shadow skins/models myself as I do feel there is an advantage to the shadows skins, particularly the skulk. In darker areas or just dark corners it is much easier to lose track of a skulk that's using the shadow skin than the default, giving it time to close in and potentially deal damage. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way and would appreciate the option. Don't say they're equal because they're not, you cannot have two things be different and the same at the same time. ONE is better than the other, and I would like to force the game to show me the original/most common version.

Again, I know they donated, they're right to show it off. But I should also have the right, as a player, not to be disadvantaged for it.
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Comments

  • JektJekt Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    Isn't NS2 pay to win?
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited November 2013
    True, it can work the other way in some cases, however I'd still like the option to play against vanilla coloured enemies.

    EDIT: I should add, if it gets you killed even once because of loss of sight in a dark spot, that is enough to justify forcing it. I'm sure it's happened to just about everyone tbh. It's not that it's IMPOSSIBLE to see them, it's just that there IS a difference.

    EDIT2: I should also add that on brighter maps where having the shadow skin IS a disadvantage, those players have the option of just disabling it to not disadvantage themselves. Why should the opposite not be true.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    I believe that's cheating! Though if there was an r_gamma cvar I'd be on it instantly. I actually don't know how to tweak the gamma for this game? Pretty sure you can't do it without either a 3rd party app or changing monitor settings.
  • rantologyrantology Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143750Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    edited November 2013
    Well, I use lightboost which darkens the screen considerably, so in turn I use Nvidia control panel (probably available to anyone running an nvidia card) to adjust brightness, gamma and color settings to makes things as visible as they were before.

    cheating, though? ehhh.... kinda fuzzy lines to be drawn there. Regardless I don't think adjusting your monitor settings is cheating... if you can't even see in dark corners, you might want to do that.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    I can see in the corners, however I think you can push it a bit further than "oh I can see in this corner now" to "oh that skulk in the corner has headlights on him". I did find those options. pity they're not per application settings so I'd have to tweak them every time I open and close the game.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    I don't think there is an advantage, I do think, however, that there should be a way to turn shadow skins of. Why people do that is not our concern, imo.
  • ultranewbultranewb Pro Bug Hunter Join Date: 2004-07-21 Member: 30026Members
    Less visible = more advantage. If you thing there's any room for argument against this ... [insert insult here].

    FYI: I created a command-line utility to change gamma on-the-fly to make the game playable. Replace "gamma" with "sound" and you can see how water-brained the arguments against it are.
  • SamusDroidSamusDroid Colorado Join Date: 2013-05-13 Member: 185219Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    edited November 2013
    I'm not even sure this is possible, models are set server sided, you might be able to hide your own yes, but I don't think it wouldn't be possible for the client to send data telling the server to only show the default skin for just you.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    @SamusDroid I think you missed the point, the server isn't important, all I want is an option for my game to load the default models/skins only. It doesn't need to send data to the server at all.

    Also just noticed you have a double negative in your post, so confused now.
  • SamusDroidSamusDroid Colorado Join Date: 2013-05-13 Member: 185219Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    edited November 2013
    You, the client, would need to send, your option, that you want only default models, to the server, so that it can set the default models only, not any special ones, which is not really possible because then it would be default for everyone.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    I don't understand why the client can't have an override that sets the defaults regardless?
  • NedStarNedStar Join Date: 2013-08-30 Member: 187224Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I don't know, that seems slightly excessive. I wouldn't really mind if there would be such a feature but what makes this need a special treatment over lets say. Tripple screen, wider fov. Upping the gamma to see better overall or adjusting your audio to make skulk footsteps more audible?

    I get what you're aiming at with the playing field should be equal and all. But I think in this case the skulk model is such a minor advantage in dark areas that I just don't see the problem.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    The point is it's something that unlike most of the things you listed can be controlled easily. To take your logic, why make it a special treatment over say wallhack chams?
  • NedStarNedStar Join Date: 2013-08-30 Member: 187224Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    The key difference being that cheating is in clear violation with the game. Anything else I've just mentioned are common hard/software features.

    I'm aware that options is what you seek and I agree options are good. But be honest, how often did you actually die to a shadow skulk because he was more blend in with the environment? Was this perhaps not a simple case of a more skilled skulk then the usual "no shadow badge" skulk?

    Someone with lower ping or higher gamma is much more likely to effect your game then a shadow skulk.

    That being said, this feature would do absolutely no harm and if easy to implement, by all means. I just never saw this as a problem and why didn't anyone start a similar thread regarding black marines back in the day :D?
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    It actually hasn't happened to me personally yet, but have heard other people complain about it and can see the issue, so I'm trying to get something done about it.

    The difference with black marines/fem marines (and I agree that a force default models should force these too) is that aliens actually light up marines with outlines/vision anyway so it matters a lot less. Or did in old AV anyway.
  • maD_maX_maD_maX_ Join Date: 2013-04-07 Member: 184678Members
    edited November 2013
    Ah but in combat the distinctive shadow skin can help you ID your opponent and track him.

    Ex: you come upon two gorges and put 200dmg in 1 of them, then they start jumping and healing all over each other. At first you lose track of which one already shot, but the you realise you shot the gorge with a shadow skin. So you quickly finish him off and can move on to the other.

    Ex: the other team has a player 31-4 as as a shadow fade, and he's the only guy on their team with a shadow badge. Now you know when you see a shadow fade who it is, and to focus fire...



    On the cheating issue, if gamma type stuff is ok? Then how about macros on my mouse/keyboard? I had one that would switch to para shoot and switch back to bite in <1/10 second.... Boom mouse 4 is now parasight.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    I've heard this argument, and again, those people can disable the shadow skin if they feel disadvantaged, the opposite doesn't apply. But it IS their choice. Also I can't say I have trouble tracking which life form went where, more brief moments where I lose track of a single thing, even if I have a general idea of where it went, I have to spend a split second finding it.
  • NailoNailo Join Date: 2013-05-06 Member: 185138Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    I'm of the opinion that whatever advantage the shadow skulk skin gives, its disadvantages equal it out. Namely as some as have stated above. Easier to see in lit rooms, easier to pick out in combat, and of course, the shadow gorgies can't stop staring at their awesome new toys ^_^ If it was possible to have that option then I say sure why not, but if its as hard to do as samusdroid says then I'd just say put it on that long list of things to do, and leave it be until better performance and other kinks are worked out ^_^
  • RadimaXRadimaX Join Date: 2013-02-05 Member: 182840Members
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    however I'd still like the option to play against vanilla coloured enemies.

    Thats Racist! :P jk but yeah i agree it would be great to have an vanilla button in the menu. Lets take an example scentario:

    1.if you chose to donate to have black textures you will always have them no matter what happens. They may or may not have an slight advantage this does not matter because...
    2.if you chose to not donate you still have option to see regular textured enemys as you always would have in the past, because it does NOT take away donators black textures.
  • xen32xen32 Join Date: 2012-10-18 Member: 162676Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Wait, can't you just make a model mod? Like, copy original skin, rename file to shadow, upload and activate mod.
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    That would be a server side mod, affecting everybody on the server
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    xen32 wrote: »
    Wait, can't you just make a model mod? Like, copy original skin, rename file to shadow, upload and activate mod.

    Only if there was no consistency checking like back in the good old days.
  • Squirreli_Squirreli_ Join Date: 2012-04-25 Member: 151046Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Personally, I think running non-default skins is a disadvantage, as it is easier to focus fire at a certain individual in a group, when the skins are different. You are giving more information to the opponent by pimping out the way you look. Sure, it is not game-breaking and I don't think any competitive teams have seen it fit to use default skins because of that. So, yeah, a skin can give you an advantage IF it is the default skin. Forcing default skins wouldn't make sense except for a small minority of players who have bad monitors and bad graphics card settings.

    What's more, I don't think you could really justify removing players' pimped out skins outside a strict tournament setting or so. People have paid good money towards making the game better and have been rewarded by a little something for that. Taking that away without a very good reason would annoy a lot of people and set a bad precedent. Then again, if you run a server and code a server side mod for that, sure, it's your sandbox. Do what you will and let people vote with their feet ;)
  • _INTER__INTER_ Join Date: 2009-08-08 Member: 68392Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    I believe that's cheating! Though if there was an r_gamma cvar I'd be on it instantly.
    Off topic: Sounds the same as some XBox players calling those gaming with mouse and keyboard on XBox cheaters.
    Then again, there are people tuning down their settings in a way to see phantom skulks clear as a day. While its not cheating it's clearly exploiting right?
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Not sure, I don't really mind it myself, but I've seen posts from other competitive players that seem to give the idea that it's at the very least frowned upon.
  • SammeySammey Join Date: 2012-06-14 Member: 153266Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited November 2013
    When there was the Black Marine armor, I'd always prioritize killing those marines over 'normal' marines.
    The same goes for Shadow players ( both marine or alien ) now.
    Mainly because you can immediatly tell for sure those players are not noobs and have a larger chance of being a higher threat.
    This only goes up for public play ofcourse.
  • WakeWake Join Date: 2003-03-05 Member: 14351Members, Constellation
    The point it it does reduce the special skins thingy down to ashes.
    You don't see yourslef do you ? So the actual reward is to be seen.
  • current1ycurrent1y Join Date: 2003-12-08 Member: 24150Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    *looks around and wonders if he's the only one who is thinking about going back to default skins so they are targeted less*
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