Early Vs Late Game Ns
Straylight
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2783Members
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2783Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Not about balance</div> Personally I love the begining of NS matches the most. The skuks die in a few hits and the marines die even faster. The marines are afraid to walk around the map alone and entering a new room without looking up is potentially fatal. The aliens are no better off, a skulk in the middle of a long corridor is toast and there is always the question of how long to wait to drop down behind that marine in case he has backup. In general the game is tense, you die fast and it usually scares the hell out of you. I love it.
However, once you get a 2nd hive and the marines have HA/HMG everything slows down because the weapon advances don't "keep up" with the armor upgrades so everyone lives longer in a fight. Even when the game is pretty even (like fades and HA/HMG appear pretty close to one another and no one is pwning) you don't worry so much about ambushes or being caught out in the open because your not going to die in a few seconds. This in and of itself is less fun IMO because when it takes so long to die, most of the tension that is so great, leaves.
If the longer fights wasn't enough, adding to this lack of tension is the fact that the aliens (fades) start play more like marines with very good knives. Acid rocket shouldn't be their primary weapon IMO. Actually closing with a HMG/HA as a fade is the last thing I want to do even from behind because the HMG is actually more effective at close range then my claws are (by this I mean I'm going to die first). My strat is usually shoot acid rockets and dodge until I think hes reloading then blink and finish him. If I'm wrong and he opens up I blink away and run back to the nearest def tower. This is 100% different then at the begining of the game where the marines want the long, opens, spaces and as a skulk you want to get as close as possible. Based on everything I have heard, I think the idea was for the early game dynamics to continue throughout the game.
A third part of this is because most of the map is controlled by one team or another and it becomes a game of pushing through the other team's defences. This is a good point but the aliens could still ambush via the elaborate vents that every map has if it really paid off anymore. But in my experience it doesn't. First this is because there is no reason to attack end game marines as a skulk (the master of ambushes). Your not going to win. The fade can also ambush nicely too (especially with cloaking) but as I've already said: It's not worth it vs HA/HMG even if you compleatly suprise them. You might win (I doubt it) but it is wiser to use the rocket. If you are thinking about arguing this point with me please note: most people (and I agree with this) want adrenaline (movement) before cloaking(sensory). People usually get yelled at for buiding anything except def->mov->sen. Part of this is because acid rocket uses a lot of energy and it is your primary weapon as a fade. All cloaking does is let you hide anywhere and who wants that in late game?
The solution is simply to tone down the late game armor/hp over all. Not only would it restore the viability of the ambush, but it would also probbly make the skulk and basic marine from becomeing compleatly obsolete making the game more fun for the losing team and perhaps even ending the mass exodus of the losers that happens 99% of the time.
What do you guys think?
Straylight
However, once you get a 2nd hive and the marines have HA/HMG everything slows down because the weapon advances don't "keep up" with the armor upgrades so everyone lives longer in a fight. Even when the game is pretty even (like fades and HA/HMG appear pretty close to one another and no one is pwning) you don't worry so much about ambushes or being caught out in the open because your not going to die in a few seconds. This in and of itself is less fun IMO because when it takes so long to die, most of the tension that is so great, leaves.
If the longer fights wasn't enough, adding to this lack of tension is the fact that the aliens (fades) start play more like marines with very good knives. Acid rocket shouldn't be their primary weapon IMO. Actually closing with a HMG/HA as a fade is the last thing I want to do even from behind because the HMG is actually more effective at close range then my claws are (by this I mean I'm going to die first). My strat is usually shoot acid rockets and dodge until I think hes reloading then blink and finish him. If I'm wrong and he opens up I blink away and run back to the nearest def tower. This is 100% different then at the begining of the game where the marines want the long, opens, spaces and as a skulk you want to get as close as possible. Based on everything I have heard, I think the idea was for the early game dynamics to continue throughout the game.
A third part of this is because most of the map is controlled by one team or another and it becomes a game of pushing through the other team's defences. This is a good point but the aliens could still ambush via the elaborate vents that every map has if it really paid off anymore. But in my experience it doesn't. First this is because there is no reason to attack end game marines as a skulk (the master of ambushes). Your not going to win. The fade can also ambush nicely too (especially with cloaking) but as I've already said: It's not worth it vs HA/HMG even if you compleatly suprise them. You might win (I doubt it) but it is wiser to use the rocket. If you are thinking about arguing this point with me please note: most people (and I agree with this) want adrenaline (movement) before cloaking(sensory). People usually get yelled at for buiding anything except def->mov->sen. Part of this is because acid rocket uses a lot of energy and it is your primary weapon as a fade. All cloaking does is let you hide anywhere and who wants that in late game?
The solution is simply to tone down the late game armor/hp over all. Not only would it restore the viability of the ambush, but it would also probbly make the skulk and basic marine from becomeing compleatly obsolete making the game more fun for the losing team and perhaps even ending the mass exodus of the losers that happens 99% of the time.
What do you guys think?
Straylight
Comments
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyways, like a good sci fi movie, I want to feel, as a marine, like i'm never going to get out of there alive and be scared to go around the corner (even if I do have heavy armor and a hmg) without a teammate or two. I haven't play as marine too much yet, but when I do the only time I ever worry about not having a teammate is in the beginning of the round when skulks are so great. I get all this theory from the beginning of rounds, where there is no doubt I have the most fun in any game i've ever played. The beginning of the round is so much fun because as a skulk you are really a force to be reckoned with, and all your sneaking around and quickness pays off. But, it is also fun as a marine because you really have to pay attention and sneak around yourself and you're the underdog. If you could somehow recreate this feeling for the entire round, I would be exponentially less frustrated playing as aliens and marines.
I also understand that its a good idea to have the gameplay shift as the round moves along, and this is very well executed in the current version. When you join the game you get feeling of the defenses being built up and scouting being done, and then the game shifts to more face to face battles and assaulting and then finally one of the teams gets beaten back and has to lay everything on the line.
So how you could incorporate those last two paragraphs into one game, I can only make suggestions, but it may be a bit late for me to say anything constructive. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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Late game I will use a skulk over anything else 95% of the time. Skulks are hardly obsolete.
Now THOSE are some hard-paced matches.
Im the cleaner, i usually kill all the marines that move from base to base...
Catching stray Marines moving between points.. oh the joy.
I for one, agree with you on the being scared for Marine teams. That adrenaline rush is great, especially since you are with other players, they all have their own personalities (except for those who keep begging for HMG/HA's in the first five minutes of a round). You'll have your team Rambos, team Sergeants and team Wusses. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->