I hope it's sorta like a pub party system. Where you join a matchmaking lobby, get a bunch of people in. Then all vote on a server to use. Which as you can probably imagine, is pretty much how ensl gathers work.
The ranking thing is interesting. I definitely want to see such a system.
I also hope the game gets some sort of way of handling clan matches in a proper way that isn't a pain to use, that would also be very cool.
the kill/death elo systems worked for counterstrike (granted it wasn't an official server mod).
good players would generate more points with a high degree of accuracy (granted not perfect, as more time on server was also a factor), and there would be a local 'scoreboard' which was a bit of a fun challenge and sense of pointless achievement. the only weakness being that if you're new to that particular server you'll skew the skill rankings a bit.
that enables the server to balance on skill (if not direct skill, at least you know both teams have a similar level of experienced players who are capable of strategy and not utter noobs). this system inarguably works... CS1.6, CSS, CSGO and TF2 have used it - and the skill balance function is not OVERUSED, it's only used following an incredibly one-sided or BORING round - when you actually need it.
the kill/death elo systems worked for counterstrike (granted it wasn't an official server mod).
good players would generate more points with a high degree of accuracy (granted not perfect, as more time on server was also a factor), and there would be a local 'scoreboard' which was a bit of a fun challenge and sense of pointless achievement. the only weakness being that if you're new to that particular server you'll skew the skill rankings a bit.
that enables the server to balance on skill (if not direct skill, at least you know both teams have a similar level of experienced players who are capable of strategy and not utter noobs). this system inarguably works... CS1.6, CSS, CSGO and TF2 have used it - and the skill balance function is not OVERUSED, it's only used following an incredibly one-sided or BORING round - when you actually need it.
Worked in counterstrike where the entire point of the game was to get kills and not die. That simply isn't the case in NS2 and a kill/death elo would not work very well. TF2, while not purely kill/death oriented, is much more focused on getting kills than NS2 is.
I think a kd Elo could be reasonable for a server to implement itsself. This mod is very common in TF2 and definitely adds to the fun by giving you a little gimmick to rank up. It wouldn't work well for any large scale systems, though.
Also, I think the matchmaking should be focused on funneling players into servers -- NOT SETTING UP 6V6 IN GAME MATCHES. I do not think a 6v6 match making system will be very popular. The wait times will be long and it is unlikely that competitive players will flock to it. It is very unlikely that competitive players will be playing against other competitive players because there simply aren't that many competitive players.
A system that can estimate your skill, estimate a server's skill, and then plop you down into a reasonable server with one click of a button is the only thing that I think would be successful in the current NS2 environment. It would have a minimum wait time, very low population requirement, and would avoid the (imo) near-impossible task of creating fair matches.
i think anything under 10v10 is totally pants for pub... too many people play while eating, watching tv or semi-afk. the more people, the less impact caused by slackers
I would hope that an official matchmaking system would have the choice of player count, so comp players could sign up for 6v6 if they so choose, while people like myself could use it to set up (or find) their preferred 10v10 games.
Also, a choice of waiting for a full lobby, or just refining the quick join feature to join a match in progress with the same skill/experience filter as lobby-style matchmaking.
I think it should only focus on 6v6, the system @benson is hoping for would only work on games with higher concurrent player bases IMO. Also a Propper game of ns2 isn't something you can just "join in on" 13 mins in.
6v6, load you straight into the server with the other people waiting, jump around abit until you have six on each side. Bing bang bosh, max can fill in the Blanks and variables
I agree that it should mainly be used as a gather system, to further grow the comp scene, but applying some of the same matchmaking principals and filters to the quickjoin button, with a number of players option would suffice for me
I don't think finding 12 guys globally who want to play a 6v6 out of 600 concurrent players will be very difficult. All the competitive players will play this instead of pub stomping.
But again @hugh we would love to hear some juicy gossip on your views of what's important and what's achievable. This is the only thing keeping me interested in long term ns2 to be brutally honest spill some beans already!
I don't see 20+ players suddenly wanting to play 6v6, and I never notice many populated 12 player servers, but they might all be passworded. edit: If you look at a selection of players on http://hive.naturalselection2.com/ their game history shows that they like to play on only a handful of servers. Typical MM will stop that happening.
I would like to see just a more advanced "vote random teams" but that takes into account skill/winrate and possibly locks players who want to stay together + gives people a favoured team choice.
The whole point of this system is to bridge competitive and public!
You don't see many 12 player servers? Dude... Yes of course they are passworded. see the 50 teams over on the ensl? They are using them. This matchmaking system would bring no changes to public players who already have, well, public lol....
If they based one's "stats" on the new score system they implemented, then I believe it would work very well. I think this because since the revamp it seems one's score more accurately allows gauging of any individual's contribution to their team (isn't that why UWE did this?) compared to how it used to: i.e. someone can be 2-11-3 on the scoreboard and could be way ahead of someone who is 7-1-1. Indeed, a proactive welder marine / alien gorge can top their scoreboards as well if they keep it up, I've seen it happen.
Reading that still makes me think it's a glorified PUG bot for comp players, score based random teams is one of the worst features I've ever heard of, random gorges who pick up the last % in biling 5 structures are now pitted against the dude who went 20-18-2 as a fade, I know who I'd rather have on my team any day of the week.
@Xao FYI, the score system has been refined and now you get points on buildings based on time built/healed, its not all or nothing anymore. Also, same for percent of damage dealt to lifeforms and buildings
@Xao FYI, the score system has been refined and now you get points on buildings based on time built/healed, its not all or nothing anymore. Also, same for percent of damage dealt to lifeforms and buildings
Why do you feed him? He doesn't play the game anymore. He's just here to troll around. Should have never been unbanned.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
All the Score-, KDR, ELO; or whatever systems cant balance teamplay.
You can have a team filled with high KDR/score egos loosing against a fast responding communicating team.
But in this case the elo system sux for sure not that the better team win the match.
Im sure we see the same with a gathersystem, where premium league players using fakenicks stacking against typically pub players.
So nothing going to be changed there.
Im using random and now ELO based teams since ages.
And no matter what you are using you always have "whiners" calling things like:
"No random stack pls" (btw, random cant stack, its random), "Vote ELO teams if you want crappy games" (How can Teams sorted by skill automatic be crap?)
If you use no random-method, the people cry about the stack.
So people dont want:
- stacked teams
- skill sorted teams
- randomed teams
@Xao FYI, the score system has been refined and now you get points on buildings based on time built/healed, its not all or nothing anymore. Also, same for percent of damage dealt to lifeforms and buildings
Which still means the gorge/s who get 800 on score in a 30-50 min game biling the power node 30 times are randomed along with the person who goes 30-20-2 on marines or 30-5-5 on fade, I still know which one I want on my team. In fact % damage on buildings makes it even worse since I imagine multiple gorges get 30-30-40% on building destruction and everyone's score goes up.
Comments
The ranking thing is interesting. I definitely want to see such a system.
I also hope the game gets some sort of way of handling clan matches in a proper way that isn't a pain to use, that would also be very cool.
good players would generate more points with a high degree of accuracy (granted not perfect, as more time on server was also a factor), and there would be a local 'scoreboard' which was a bit of a fun challenge and sense of pointless achievement. the only weakness being that if you're new to that particular server you'll skew the skill rankings a bit.
that enables the server to balance on skill (if not direct skill, at least you know both teams have a similar level of experienced players who are capable of strategy and not utter noobs). this system inarguably works... CS1.6, CSS, CSGO and TF2 have used it - and the skill balance function is not OVERUSED, it's only used following an incredibly one-sided or BORING round - when you actually need it.
Worked in counterstrike where the entire point of the game was to get kills and not die. That simply isn't the case in NS2 and a kill/death elo would not work very well. TF2, while not purely kill/death oriented, is much more focused on getting kills than NS2 is.
I think a kd Elo could be reasonable for a server to implement itsself. This mod is very common in TF2 and definitely adds to the fun by giving you a little gimmick to rank up. It wouldn't work well for any large scale systems, though.
Also, I think the matchmaking should be focused on funneling players into servers -- NOT SETTING UP 6V6 IN GAME MATCHES. I do not think a 6v6 match making system will be very popular. The wait times will be long and it is unlikely that competitive players will flock to it. It is very unlikely that competitive players will be playing against other competitive players because there simply aren't that many competitive players.
A system that can estimate your skill, estimate a server's skill, and then plop you down into a reasonable server with one click of a button is the only thing that I think would be successful in the current NS2 environment. It would have a minimum wait time, very low population requirement, and would avoid the (imo) near-impossible task of creating fair matches.
Also, a choice of waiting for a full lobby, or just refining the quick join feature to join a match in progress with the same skill/experience filter as lobby-style matchmaking.
6v6, load you straight into the server with the other people waiting, jump around abit until you have six on each side. Bing bang bosh, max can fill in the Blanks and variables
I agree that it should mainly be used as a gather system, to further grow the comp scene, but applying some of the same matchmaking principals and filters to the quickjoin button, with a number of players option would suffice for me
You don't see many 12 player servers? Dude... Yes of course they are passworded. see the 50 teams over on the ensl? They are using them. This matchmaking system would bring no changes to public players who already have, well, public lol....
pfff hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
u wot m8? Unless dm_dust2 and dm_inferno are the most popular maps I can't think of a single game of counter strike where the goal was to get frags.
http://unknownworlds.com/ns2/organised-play-systems/
Reading that still makes me think it's a glorified PUG bot for comp players, score based random teams is one of the worst features I've ever heard of, random gorges who pick up the last % in biling 5 structures are now pitted against the dude who went 20-18-2 as a fade, I know who I'd rather have on my team any day of the week.
Guybrush was hardly 'sane' - plus could hold his breath for 10 minutes.
Why do you feed him? He doesn't play the game anymore. He's just here to troll around. Should have never been unbanned.
You can have a team filled with high KDR/score egos loosing against a fast responding communicating team.
But in this case the elo system sux for sure not that the better team win the match.
Im sure we see the same with a gathersystem, where premium league players using fakenicks stacking against typically pub players.
So nothing going to be changed there.
Im using random and now ELO based teams since ages.
And no matter what you are using you always have "whiners" calling things like:
"No random stack pls" (btw, random cant stack, its random), "Vote ELO teams if you want crappy games" (How can Teams sorted by skill automatic be crap?)
If you use no random-method, the people cry about the stack.
So people dont want:
- stacked teams
- skill sorted teams
- randomed teams
Lets all play chess: its 1v1
Which still means the gorge/s who get 800 on score in a 30-50 min game biling the power node 30 times are randomed along with the person who goes 30-20-2 on marines or 30-5-5 on fade, I still know which one I want on my team. In fact % damage on buildings makes it even worse since I imagine multiple gorges get 30-30-40% on building destruction and everyone's score goes up.
Because that's the point I'm making isn't it, why I bother replying to constellation I don't know.