Please guys, the extra posts in here aren't particularly helpful. I really want to keep this thread clean and tidy and specifically about the factors we as a community feel UWE should be prioritising. I do very much welcome comments/feedback on my previous post to @Hugh, which is on page 4 of this thread.
If Hugh already stated that he isn't going to bother with anyone else's post than those of Roo "Vox Populi" Bubba, then what's the worst that could happen?
Build 260, containing various fixes to annoying issues created by SamusDroid, could possibly go live. After that, the following areas are being targeted for improvement for 261:
- Commander keybinds
- Player collision improvements
- Further minor annoyance fixes
- Elimination of early game hitching
- Matchmaking version 1 (highly aspirational)
I recognise that this list does not directly correlate with the list of priorities you have generated. However, I hope there is sufficient overlap to cause some happiness. I am noting down the priorities you are generating and attempting to triage them into development. The list is aspirational and should not be interpreted as a guarantee. It is likely that technical hurdles, insurmountable in the short term, will be encountered as we move away from 260 into 261. The list will be modified as those hurdles are encountered.
If Hugh already stated that he isn't going to bother with anyone else's post than those of Roo "Vox Populi" Bubba, then what's the worst that could happen?
It is inevitable that I will scan the thread each time a visit. The risk you run is that the tone of the thread sinks to such a degree that I am unable to visit without damaging my own morale and motivation. That would reduce my ability to align your priorities for NS2 with what is actually being worked on. We're all human, and it is impossible to be a robot. Barbs hurt, tone matters, and rude sarcasm is insufferable. Making a forum thread a productive one is a two way street.
"Further minor annoyance fixes". What does that mean exactly?
Also, thank god for the early game hitching being fixed at last, that is possibly something more than anything else that has made me want to stop playing this game.
EDIT: It may not be the perfect list, but it IS something that people will be very grateful for if it actually gets done right. This is fine for now, but I hope other things will continue to be fixed/worked on in the coming months.
The first time something happens after you've loaded the map it causes for many people (ssds would get it but it'd be soo small) a small freeze while the game loads it. Like this,
This will interested me also? Same kind nonstreaming option like in 249/before reinforced? Best option would be have "preload everything" (some other games have this) console command and people who can/could take a risk to use it... I don't mind bigger map loading times (or loading things while in main menu), but is there more hidden problems that this can't be done? 32bit users, memory leaks, alt tabbing well I use DX11 while DX9 is more stable, but overall feel is just better in dx11 which is hitching more than dx9
I didn't have these hitching problems before reinforced (last hitch free was before reinforced). I have SSD and I can feel them too
Samus might be the 2nd coming (or 1st, no one really knows) of jesus. Uploading a video right now of me testing a mod he quickly made to remove all hitching by forcing everything (well all dds files I think? Samus clarify) to be loaded on map load. Unintentionally this caused the game to load into a map in about 10s instead of my usual 1:30 using the same method (map ns2_summit). Will link video below in 20 minutes, it shows loading time + hitches gone.
Samus might be the 2nd coming (or 1st, no one really knows) of jesus. Uploading a video right now of me testing a mod he quickly made to remove all hitching by forcing everything (well all dds files I think? Samus clarify) to be loaded on map load. Unintentionally this caused the game to load into a map in about 10s instead of my usual 1:30 using the same method (map ns2_summit). Will link video below in 20 minutes, it shows loading time + hitches gone.
I disabled consistency checking in my %appdata% folder so I could run it. No it will be blocked by consistency, wait for it to be committed to the game.
Thank you very much, Hugh! I'm delighted to hear about your intentions for 261.
I might honestly start playing more with commander keybinds. I'm an RTS player who feels most comfortable playing with JIOP-based keybinds instead of ASDF.
If I can offer a suggestion for keybinds specifically, please allow keys to be assigned to tech items and not command card position. Grid players are the minority in the RTS genre, because not all fingers are equally dextrous. The current command card set up looks pretty when read left-to-write but my pinky is not suited to opening the build menu.
If Hugh already stated that he isn't going to bother with anyone else's post than those of Roo "Vox Populi" Bubba, then what's the worst that could happen?
Roo "Torches and Pitchforks" Bubba was a vocal advocate of the hated strafe jump, and therefore he is dead to me. Though it's probably mutual :DDD
If Hugh already stated that he isn't going to bother with anyone else's post than those of Roo "Vox Populi" Bubba, then what's the worst that could happen?
Roo "Torches and Pitchforks" Bubba was a vocal advocate of the hated strafe jump, and therefore he is dead to me. Though it's probably mutual :DDD
Wrong. I merely pointed out that sj was not the root cause of the problem that most people were complaining about, which is bad skulking.
And yes.
Also, server performance isn't a problem of just the competitive community. The only major provider of Natural Selection 2 servers (Multiplay) cannot run your game at a stable 30 ticks. All official servers stutter and rubberband into the late game. Likewise with the NSL servers and anyone else that rents a server through them. It's unacceptable.
Yes.
You need top of the line high end intel processors with 3.5Ghz clock speed to run a server in a non-overclooked situation. Not sure whether it can handle the full 24 in any situation.
Also the lack of multithreading in a cpu-heavy server application like this is disturbing. Makes most of the server CPUs useless, unless you want to host lots of servers.
Just force random screenshots or something imo. Find some way to do it mid round at random too. Aimbots are pretty easy to notice without evidence so anyone using one would be under scrutiny immediately.
Because that works so well is totally not bypassed by many popular hacks for other games.
This game's hacks do not toggle for screenshots (yet). Even if they did, I'm sure there's still a way to catch them. A whitelist of dlls that can inject into the game maybe? So steam overlay and that's it basically (yes you can add your crappy mumble overlay too w/e). This shouldn't ban a player as the overlay could be legit and just not on the list, merely kick them immediately until it's gone.
JektJoin Date: 2012-02-05Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited November 2013
Seeing the effects of not having a demo system in place for an event like this.
Practising teams can't properly exchange demos with members, or conveniently watch back their own play to analyse the round and better their strategy. Newer players and teams won't have that a demo reference to learn off of either. It's silly when teams are having people dedicated to recording sitting in spec.
Also going to be unable to make a high and consistent quality video from the perspective of competing players. Frag videos are such a fun way to watch skill highlights and see a game condensed into its best moments. A tournament wide video simply isn't going to be possible using first person footage even if players did use third party recording tools due to minimal graphical settings and varying resolutions.
The frustration surrounding this feature is magnified due to NS2 already having the basics of a demo system already in place. If this debugging tool was expanded to run at the same rate regardless of fps, had a playback system to pause, stop, goto time/tick, rewind, fast forward (can even get away with not having the last two!) and be able to start demo recording while already in a server - everyone would be happy.
I wouldn't consider the demos not working with previous patches to be a deal breaker either, patches aren't coming out that often anymore. And if I want to watch a demo it's very likely a recent one.
Devs originally make suggestion forums or similar things so that A) ppl feel like they're heard and/or for devs to listen to suggestion (Dont expect B to happen much, especially if not indie)
Ironically, suggestion forums are just the place for ppl to get mad at the devs.
Okay, now that b261 is out, we have non en-US keyboard issues fixed, tweaked collision system, and an option to reduce UI clutter. That's 3 things off the list in one patch, so fantastic work and THANK YOU to @sewlek and @samusdroid for that!
If there was any hope of server-modifiable client rate, I think it would be fair to say that we'd be in amazing shape for the NS2WC. The progress so far has been amazing, it'd be fantastic to see that continue
JektJoin Date: 2012-02-05Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
The minimal hud doesn't change that much. And I don't really agree with it removing the minimap. Since chud is being used in the WC and NSL S4 it doesn't really matter. @Mendasp really enjoys maintaining it after all.
Excluding gameplay/balance, proper demo playback and server modifiable rates is really all I'm after at this point.
Getting the performance back on track would be welcome too. Reinforced went backwards about 50 builds for me. And no server in the world that isn't running a 4Ghz overclock runs at stable 30 tick in a long pub game. Beta days. But no one can really expect that at this point.
if ns2wc grand final doesnt have any first spectator than please don't cast it. That's one of the best things about live finals..... atleast fix the problem with the nsl mod & that first or don't run it.
Comments
If Hugh already stated that he isn't going to bother with anyone else's post than those of Roo "Vox Populi" Bubba, then what's the worst that could happen?
Build 260, containing various fixes to annoying issues created by SamusDroid, could possibly go live. After that, the following areas are being targeted for improvement for 261:
- Commander keybinds
- Player collision improvements
- Further minor annoyance fixes
- Elimination of early game hitching
- Matchmaking version 1 (highly aspirational)
I recognise that this list does not directly correlate with the list of priorities you have generated. However, I hope there is sufficient overlap to cause some happiness. I am noting down the priorities you are generating and attempting to triage them into development. The list is aspirational and should not be interpreted as a guarantee. It is likely that technical hurdles, insurmountable in the short term, will be encountered as we move away from 260 into 261. The list will be modified as those hurdles are encountered.
It is inevitable that I will scan the thread each time a visit. The risk you run is that the tone of the thread sinks to such a degree that I am unable to visit without damaging my own morale and motivation. That would reduce my ability to align your priorities for NS2 with what is actually being worked on. We're all human, and it is impossible to be a robot. Barbs hurt, tone matters, and rude sarcasm is insufferable. Making a forum thread a productive one is a two way street.
Also, thank god for the early game hitching being fixed at last, that is possibly something more than anything else that has made me want to stop playing this game.
EDIT: It may not be the perfect list, but it IS something that people will be very grateful for if it actually gets done right. This is fine for now, but I hope other things will continue to be fixed/worked on in the coming months.
Could you enlight me please ?
Thank you,
Red
I didn't have these hitching problems before reinforced (last hitch free was before reinforced). I have SSD and I can feel them too
EDIT: Here it is,
Doesn't need to pass consistent because it loads on game load, or should at least.
I might honestly start playing more with commander keybinds. I'm an RTS player who feels most comfortable playing with JIOP-based keybinds instead of ASDF.
If I can offer a suggestion for keybinds specifically, please allow keys to be assigned to tech items and not command card position. Grid players are the minority in the RTS genre, because not all fingers are equally dextrous. The current command card set up looks pretty when read left-to-write but my pinky is not suited to opening the build menu.
Roo "Torches and Pitchforks" Bubba was a vocal advocate of the hated strafe jump, and therefore he is dead to me. Though it's probably mutual :DDD
Wrong. I merely pointed out that sj was not the root cause of the problem that most people were complaining about, which is bad skulking.
And yes.
It would be wonderful to be able to do that in Spark.
Yes.
You need top of the line high end intel processors with 3.5Ghz clock speed to run a server in a non-overclooked situation. Not sure whether it can handle the full 24 in any situation.
Also the lack of multithreading in a cpu-heavy server application like this is disturbing. Makes most of the server CPUs useless, unless you want to host lots of servers.
Because that works so well is totally not bypassed by many popular hacks for other games.
Not a complete solution as many dll would hookup on the fly such as AV and emet.
Practising teams can't properly exchange demos with members, or conveniently watch back their own play to analyse the round and better their strategy. Newer players and teams won't have that a demo reference to learn off of either. It's silly when teams are having people dedicated to recording sitting in spec.
Also going to be unable to make a high and consistent quality video from the perspective of competing players. Frag videos are such a fun way to watch skill highlights and see a game condensed into its best moments. A tournament wide video simply isn't going to be possible using first person footage even if players did use third party recording tools due to minimal graphical settings and varying resolutions.
The frustration surrounding this feature is magnified due to NS2 already having the basics of a demo system already in place. If this debugging tool was expanded to run at the same rate regardless of fps, had a playback system to pause, stop, goto time/tick, rewind, fast forward (can even get away with not having the last two!) and be able to start demo recording while already in a server - everyone would be happy.
I wouldn't consider the demos not working with previous patches to be a deal breaker either, patches aren't coming out that often anymore. And if I want to watch a demo it's very likely a recent one.
Ironically, suggestion forums are just the place for ppl to get mad at the devs.
If there was any hope of server-modifiable client rate, I think it would be fair to say that we'd be in amazing shape for the NS2WC. The progress so far has been amazing, it'd be fantastic to see that continue
Excluding gameplay/balance, proper demo playback and server modifiable rates is really all I'm after at this point.
Getting the performance back on track would be welcome too. Reinforced went backwards about 50 builds for me. And no server in the world that isn't running a 4Ghz overclock runs at stable 30 tick in a long pub game. Beta days. But no one can really expect that at this point.
Wonder what changes were made to have that happen....
I can only once again voice my support for server decided tick rate! 60 Tickrate servers of the future sounds wonderful!
let's get a client updaterate of 30 first and see what goodness that brings