Mod Experiences
Soul_Rider
Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
in Modding
Hi All,
I decided today was going to be the day I had a real solid look at the gameplay modifications under development for NS2 and provide some opinions and advice to the creators. A sort of mini review from another Mod-Makers view point. However, this proved to be an absolute disaster. I want to talk about my experiences. I'll start with individual mods..
Xenoswarm: Doesn't work, errors connecting to all 4 servers running the mod.
Faded: Doesn't work, errors connecting to the server for the mod.
Last Stand: Works, but I was the only person in the server, and although I won the round, I have no idea of what is supposed to happen in the mod. I just ran around the bottom section of ls_hellevator, looking for an alien hive, because that's what I was told to do at the start of the game.
Classic: Works, but again, I was alone on the server. I noticed there are only US servers for Classic mod though, none in EU, which is a bit disappointing.
Combat: Had 2 servers full, however, I tried to join a few different empty servers, but the mod files were different, is that my fault or the servers? Who knows.
Overall, I have to say I was very disappointed with my day that was supposed to be spent playing some mods. I am not blaming the modders here, but if a player who isn't a modder, and doesn't know the issues etc that are happening, has these experiences, do you think it is likely they'll go back to playing mods again?
I understand the problems behind creating and maintaining a mod, hell, i thought by now, this far after release, the constant breaking of the game would be finished, but it doesn't appear this way. This doesn't change the fact that for players not in the know, attempting to play mods that don't work, will tar their experience of both modding and NS2 itself.
Also, I was very disappointed with the selection of mods available. Where is Sanity and all the other Total Conversion mods?
I wanted to play some mods today, to give some encouragement and support to the mod community, but my experiences today have really saddened me. I wanted to give back some love, but I didn't have the opportunity.
To all modders out there, don't give it up, keep going, we will get there in the end....
I decided today was going to be the day I had a real solid look at the gameplay modifications under development for NS2 and provide some opinions and advice to the creators. A sort of mini review from another Mod-Makers view point. However, this proved to be an absolute disaster. I want to talk about my experiences. I'll start with individual mods..
Xenoswarm: Doesn't work, errors connecting to all 4 servers running the mod.
Faded: Doesn't work, errors connecting to the server for the mod.
Last Stand: Works, but I was the only person in the server, and although I won the round, I have no idea of what is supposed to happen in the mod. I just ran around the bottom section of ls_hellevator, looking for an alien hive, because that's what I was told to do at the start of the game.
Classic: Works, but again, I was alone on the server. I noticed there are only US servers for Classic mod though, none in EU, which is a bit disappointing.
Combat: Had 2 servers full, however, I tried to join a few different empty servers, but the mod files were different, is that my fault or the servers? Who knows.
Overall, I have to say I was very disappointed with my day that was supposed to be spent playing some mods. I am not blaming the modders here, but if a player who isn't a modder, and doesn't know the issues etc that are happening, has these experiences, do you think it is likely they'll go back to playing mods again?
I understand the problems behind creating and maintaining a mod, hell, i thought by now, this far after release, the constant breaking of the game would be finished, but it doesn't appear this way. This doesn't change the fact that for players not in the know, attempting to play mods that don't work, will tar their experience of both modding and NS2 itself.
Also, I was very disappointed with the selection of mods available. Where is Sanity and all the other Total Conversion mods?
I wanted to play some mods today, to give some encouragement and support to the mod community, but my experiences today have really saddened me. I wanted to give back some love, but I didn't have the opportunity.
To all modders out there, don't give it up, keep going, we will get there in the end....
Comments
Build 252-256 wrecked mods, and it's not easy to fix them unless you are sewlek. :>
Mods really shouldn't break on minor stuff with a proper framework but they don't even give any warning to modders about mod breaking changes either, we've all heard the excuses of small dev etc, but it really doesn't matter at this point as the game is dying, there may still be people playing in years to come but im guessing the game population will be tiny and lack any real variety due to mods not being maintained.
I look forward to your mod if you still want to make it but as you've seen it may end up hardly getting played, which is quite sad considering how much work goes into it, just look at all the mods you've listed, only combat can be considered successful and even that can only keep a few servers full, im not sure if it's the community's lack of interest or lack of players but it's not a good sign.
I remember on release thinking how great the game would be in a years time with all the mods and maps, thousands of players and big content improvements from uwe but it just didn't happen, i think everyone tried but all sorts of issues got in the way of ns2 being a real success, im sure it was to uwe but as a player it really doesn't feel that way, i can only hope something big happens to change this soon but i doubt it will.
My admin mod was created over 70 builds ago now, and while I have done countless updates to add features (well, not so much anymore as there is better alternatives), it rarely ever needed to be updated for incompatibilities with a new NS2 version (the only outstanding version I remember was luaJIT).
The faded is broken? Can't be. I played it like a week ago? Worked fine for me.
I never played classic, and Last Stand is - sadly - pretty unpopular.
There is, on the other hand, always at least one combat server up, though.
I agree with @xDragon. The mod framework only gets you so far, and is still highly susceptible to new builds breaking your mod. It's basically a crap shoot. You're rolling the dice that the code you're mod is dependent upon or changing doesn't get updated in a new build. Given the nature of how NS2 code is organized, and the extremely narrow gap between "API" and game-code, it's no wonder that basically all the mods out there break eventually. Unfortunately, the track record has been mods breaking much sooner rather than later.
There is something massively wrong with this statement. Not that what you're saying is inaccurate, but the fact that it's true.
Mod Authors DESPERATELY NEED VERSION LOCKING. If mods are to have any REAL chance of surviving in the long run (real-world conditions), version locking HAS to be available again and permanently. Of course, this is a compromise, as you lose the ability to have multiple mods consistently work with each other (I.e. Gameplay + Server Admin).
I'm beginning to think that UWE made the unconscious assumption that modders would be able to keep pace with their updates and the availability to maintain mods.
Let's be honest, some of the better and more interesting mod possibilities, to truly be alive and well, become a part-time job for the author(s).
This is a great idea since my mod (Last Resistance) was screwed since build 254 or so...
I desprately try to fix it but uwe is constantly updating and its not working.
So if anyone of you are willing to help me out here, even smal suggestions, would be greatly appreciated!
https://github.com/OnkelDagobert/Last_Resistance
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=178385720&searchtext=
(this is the new build I injected the mod code into the new luas but still not workin...)
Sadly it motivates new players to leave a server as soon as they joined one.
Not to mention the buggy alien spawn?
that was the last time i played and there have been no improvements (aka updates) so far .
I have been modding NS2 now since build 193, and I have always found, when a mod gets a couple of builds behind, particularly a significant build, that it is always best to start the mod again from scratch.
I have started on Proving Grounds again, and have got almost as far in one week, as i had in the entire year of development previously. The more you keep working through the code, the simpler it becomes to read, and make the changes you want. You also gain a much deeper understanding which is always a good thing.
The thing is that I dont use hooks to inject the code... I just overwrite the hole lua with my mod code in it and thats, as stated before here, propably the case why its not workin... I circumvented this issue in the past by adding all ns2 luas to my mod file but unfortunately this isnt working anymore...
Thats why Version Locking would be really helpful here!
There are also only few tutorials out there and its not very categorized yet...
We really should think about a main modhub for ns2 where everyone can contribute there knowledge in a well organized and usefriendly platform.
Im using a local git repo to track all version changes since 249. Takes me 3 min to get all code changes they made. Want a doc, look at the ns2doc thread. Everything you need is out there
Our project for NS3.
Version locking would be cool, but it was introduced, didn't work properly, and was removed. There is not a lot that can be done about that. If you are writing total custom mods like me, do yourself a favour, and as hard as it seems, just re-write the code from scratch. Obviously, any new files you have created and added to the mod don't need to be re-written, unless they were just copies of NS2 files.
Doing this makes sure your mod has the latest code improvements from NS2, this is important when NS2 has gone through some big performance improvements like it has over the last few builds.
As regards the hub issue, I started a mod team with Greeds & Jim West behind Combat and Xenoswarm, as well as the Sanity guys, and a few others. I am the only one out of the team still modding for NS2. All the modders are really friendly, the best thing to do is make sure you have as many NS2 modders on your steam list as possible, generally there will always be one who is online and can help you
@GhoulofGSG9
What I mean with modhub is a kinda FAQ/Tutorial Site where someone could write a hole tut of making a new weapon or making a new alien abbility etc for expl. not just little hints and tips this forum is full of...
Anyway just an idea, I know it was stated before on this forum...
As for my mod progress...
Well me and my mod buddy got very far in making a playble version which has most of the features allready implemented we desired ... so the code is there.. only implementation is left ^^
Guess I ve to stick to Mr. Sould Riders suggestion of injecting the codelines manually again...
I really want this mod commin back alive coz I ve some really great custom mapping ideas that in combination with my mod would give an awesome new touch and gameplay feeling to ns2...
So I will rewrite the code again and hopefully will be functional in 1 month or so...