The Axe
Kamamura
Join Date: 2013-03-06 Member: 183736Members, Reinforced - Gold
Join Date: 2013-03-06 Member: 183736Members, Reinforced - Gold
Here is a weapon that is slowly getting pushed across the border of usefulness by the changes of the recent patches. Which IMO is a pity, because the weapon model is quite nicely rendered, and the weapon itself is an elaborate joke in itself - I mean, what sci-fi age military body would issue an obviously expensive, complicated, but at the same time primitive and quite useless retractable axe to their troops?
I understand the notion of having a default, reliable close combat weapon when you run out of ammo, that still have a niche use (structure damage), but with welders now being essential for marines to repair armor, and thus take advantage of the crucial and expensive armor upgrades, axe has changed from a viable option (more structural damage, no ability to repair) to clear liability (can't keep your team alive).
Also, as seen in the comp games, axes were not used even before the welder change because even though you are saving ammo and killing the structure faster, you are forced to come out of position and your view is obstructed by the target, so you are a perfect target for an ambush. With cooperating commander and tough opponents, it's much safer to just shoot structures and get ammo from drop when necessary.
It's of course entirely okay and possible to have a default weapon nobody actually wants to use, like the fist in DOOM, but I still feel it's a bit pity and would like to see the axe as a viable alternative to welders with distinct advantage to counter the mentioned disadvantage (cannot weld armor). As things stand now, welder is also much better for close combat, because it deals continuous damage stream. Yesterday, I fought SandyClawz 1 vs 1, and I managed to miss most of my bullets from both rifle and pistol, so in despair, I pulled out a welder. What do you know - due to strafe jump crazyness, I managed to burn him twice or so in the jumpy mess that followed, and made him actually run away, reloaded, and found it later around the corner as an egg which I shot down. I don't think the axe would save me in the same situation.
Things that come to mind:
- greater damage overall - probably not a good idea to diminish alien advantage in melee even further, the crazy and terrible strafe jump is bad enough
- greater structural damage - maybe, but it can destroy balance making whole alien infrastructure too fragile, but IMO viable option
- special effect on hit - energy drain, alien slowed down for 1 sec, bleeding, etc. I mean, it's a dedicated weapon that does nothing but melee
- ability to build up "charged blow" similar to railgun, with more powerful attack on release
- specific advantage against a particular lifeform (onos?)
These are just brainstorming ideas to start a discussion.
I understand the notion of having a default, reliable close combat weapon when you run out of ammo, that still have a niche use (structure damage), but with welders now being essential for marines to repair armor, and thus take advantage of the crucial and expensive armor upgrades, axe has changed from a viable option (more structural damage, no ability to repair) to clear liability (can't keep your team alive).
Also, as seen in the comp games, axes were not used even before the welder change because even though you are saving ammo and killing the structure faster, you are forced to come out of position and your view is obstructed by the target, so you are a perfect target for an ambush. With cooperating commander and tough opponents, it's much safer to just shoot structures and get ammo from drop when necessary.
It's of course entirely okay and possible to have a default weapon nobody actually wants to use, like the fist in DOOM, but I still feel it's a bit pity and would like to see the axe as a viable alternative to welders with distinct advantage to counter the mentioned disadvantage (cannot weld armor). As things stand now, welder is also much better for close combat, because it deals continuous damage stream. Yesterday, I fought SandyClawz 1 vs 1, and I managed to miss most of my bullets from both rifle and pistol, so in despair, I pulled out a welder. What do you know - due to strafe jump crazyness, I managed to burn him twice or so in the jumpy mess that followed, and made him actually run away, reloaded, and found it later around the corner as an egg which I shot down. I don't think the axe would save me in the same situation.
Things that come to mind:
- greater damage overall - probably not a good idea to diminish alien advantage in melee even further, the crazy and terrible strafe jump is bad enough
- greater structural damage - maybe, but it can destroy balance making whole alien infrastructure too fragile, but IMO viable option
- special effect on hit - energy drain, alien slowed down for 1 sec, bleeding, etc. I mean, it's a dedicated weapon that does nothing but melee
- ability to build up "charged blow" similar to railgun, with more powerful attack on release
- specific advantage against a particular lifeform (onos?)
These are just brainstorming ideas to start a discussion.
Comments
The problem is, I never want to do it. As the game is now, I will rather shoot structures.
This gives aliens a slightly better chance in melee as marines either have to reload or switch to axe when they run out of bullets (both taking time). It makes all weapons consistent in not having a secondary attack, and consistency is good. Finally it allows you to have both your axe and your welder without having to drop the welder and pick it up again.
Situational. I'm sure comp has it's own meta but in pubs there are definitely times when it is better to axe, but if you are using a welder on something other than a cyst or clog you need to l2p.
For the rest, i would like a overhead axe attack that does way more damage but is slower.
And throwing a axe
However there's a risk/reward
If you axe early on you save ammo, which in the end saves tres (every res counts
But the downside is, you leave yourself pretty vulnerable and then have a delay before you can swap to your gun
Shooting upside is you keep a safe range but you will blow tres most likely plus enemies can wait for you to be reloading to engage
All in all, I think the axe stinks :P I'd rather die trying to reload then take that out and not get a kill at all, of course why would I die when my magical medpacks will be flourishing me =}
TRES is saved, and risk is lowered.
Hahahaha yeah i love taking down harvesters when some random pub noob comes up to it and thinks he helps by welding it, usually i stop shooting when i come across this and look how many minute it takes for him to realize the 0.00000000014359 damage he is making to the structure :P
Also, rifle butt while being catalyzed should push aliens away, even oni.
I would like to be able to use both axe and welder, yes.
tip: with the axe, if you crouch, hold down mouse1 and keep your aim on the skulk, you will almost always land 1 axe hit before he bites you.
You're already punished for standing with your face burried in an extractor, hacking away; don't need to be doubly punish with ~1 second weapon switch.
Someone used it on me once. I don't know about melee, but it turns out they speed up reloading significantly.
It does increase melee attack speed ...and the grunting too.
Kill cyst, hop off, position, shoot new cyst, position. No reload for you to get jumped on.
I wind up shooting more often, but I wish the axe would simply out DPS shooting with the rifle significantly when it comes to structures. It's a basic mechanic that alot of the decision making is remove from for no reason.
Maybe that's a recent change? I've never, ever noticed that, I always noticed that as soon as you get weapons 1 it will kill an RT faster than the axe
Its one of my favorite (albeit more risky) meta games in a longer skulk/marine dance.
If that lives on as it's only function.. I'm ok with that.
I think many multiplayer games benefit from Q3 style gauntlet type niche weapons, adding a bit of an optional flavor to the combat/dance - or just a way to send a message.
Also, refer to my thread:
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/131499/i-solo-killed-a-skulk-with-an-axe#latest
So that's happenned a few times.
And what other people are saying re:the rifle butt, I would say I see like 3-ish rifle butt kills a week sooooo that's cool?
I think a knockback with the axe would do a bit to make it more useful. It doesn't have one already does it? I also thought rifle bashing had a small stun effect, but I don't think that's correct.