3 hives versus 2 CC is not equal footing. This really just comes down to that misunderstanding. If they have more tech point rooms that you, they are ahead. If they have more tech point rooms and more RTs, they're way ahead.
One guy with a flamethrower can completely stop this strat from working as well. That's literally all it takes.
Then marines should have an overwhelming advantage when they have 3 tech points and the aliens only have two. If that is the case, then when is the game ever in an equal state?
Between the time it takes to get that first whip in though, plus the time it takes for contaminate to actually spread enough infestation to place the whip at all, the marines have AMPLE time AND warning to deal with the threat. Keep in mind that infestation damages buildings, so you have that big flashing red sign on the map saying something bad is happening at base before it even begins, and plenty of time to beacon before the first whip appears.
So a smart commander, who doesn't drop infestation on structures, bypasses your argument completely?
And where exactly is he going to drop it if not on structures? In the hallway outside the marine base? It infests a very large area, few if any tech points have enough space for it to be completely clear.
Anyway, the game is never SUPPOSED to be in an equal state, except for at 0:00. If that were the case, then when should games ever end? We should not be having 2 hour long stalemates because nobody can get a clear advantage, that can still be fun once in a while but it is seriously not the way the game is intended to play
3 hives versus 2 CC is not equal footing. This really just comes down to that misunderstanding. If they have more tech point rooms that you, they are ahead. If they have more tech point rooms and more RTs, they're way ahead.
One guy with a flamethrower can completely stop this strat from working as well. That's literally all it takes.
Then marines should have an overwhelming advantage when they have 3 tech points and the aliens only have two. If that is the case, then when is the game ever in an equal state?
Between the time it takes to get that first whip in though, plus the time it takes for contaminate to actually spread enough infestation to place the whip at all, the marines have AMPLE time AND warning to deal with the threat. Keep in mind that infestation damages buildings, so you have that big flashing red sign on the map saying something bad is happening at base before it even begins, and plenty of time to beacon before the first whip appears.
So a smart commander, who doesn't drop infestation on structures, bypasses your argument completely?
And where exactly is he going to drop it if not on structures? In the hallway outside the marine base? It infests a very large area, few if any tech points have enough space for it to be completely clear.
Anyway, the game is never SUPPOSED to be in an equal state, except for at 0:00. If that were the case, then when should games ever end? We should not be having 2 hour long stalemates because nobody can get a clear advantage, that can still be fun once in a while but it is seriously not the way the game is intended to play
No the game must end at some point but taking away marines chance of wining even if the game is a long one shouldn't be an option either... The end is not satisfying because all of a sudden whips popped up and destroyed your hopes and dreams of ever fighting back to victory.
I agree, that we should wait with changes to contaminate until the hitbox is fixed. I don't know how long the infestation takes to recede after killing the structure.
I didn't thought of ARCs either. Let's just wait and see how it develops the metagame.
It is a good idea. It does prevent turtles. We just need to see if the theorized downsides are really a problem.
PS. When aliens and marines both have acquired their end-tech (and this demands 3 hives and 2 CCs) they are on equal footage. No game-mechanic should end such a game without effort by the players, or it will feel cheap and frustrate the players of one team.
And where exactly is he going to drop it if not on structures? In the hallway outside the marine base? It infests a very large area, few if any tech points have enough space for it to be completely clear.
Anyway, the game is never SUPPOSED to be in an equal state, except for at 0:00. If that were the case, then when should games ever end? We should not be having 2 hour long stalemates because nobody can get a clear advantage, that can still be fun once in a while but it is seriously not the way the game is intended to play
The infestation spreads out reasonably slowly. The whips would be echo'd in only a second or so after it reaches its maximum area, and even then, the area really isn't that large. Some tech rooms would indeed pose a problem, but there are also ones where there would most likely be no structures in range of the contaminate.
As for equal states, this game is first and foremost an FPS. The primary decider of a game should therefore be FPS ability, not strategic advantage. Its also worth noting that, given two equally skilled teams, the moment the game is no longer equal, the winner is essentially already decided, as a team is highly unlikely to make a comeback against an equally skilled team with an advantage.
I agree, that we should wait with changes to contaminate until the hitbox is fixed. I don't know how long the infestation takes to recede after killing the structure.
I didn't thought of ARCs either. Let's just wait and see how it develops the metagame.
It is a good idea. It does prevent turtles. We just need to see if the theorized downsides are really a problem.
PS. When aliens and marines both have acquired their end-tech (and this demands 3 hives and 2 CCs) they are on equal footage. No game-mechanic should end such a game without effort by the players, or it will feel cheap and frustrate the players of one team.
What necro said. I was originally under the assumption that the contamination was invulnerable except that whips could be killed with arcs... Hope this gets adjusted correctly or possibly moved to a gorge ability, but I'm done arguing my point. Sorry if my non stop posting has upset anyone, but I'm just bored and unhappy that I can barely play my favorite game at the moment due to performance issues and constant crashes... Thus I tend to take to the forums in disgust
I agree, that we should wait with changes to contaminate until the hitbox is fixed. I don't know how long the infestation takes to recede after killing the structure.
I didn't thought of ARCs either. Let's just wait and see how it develops the metagame.
It is a good idea. It does prevent turtles. We just need to see if the theorized downsides are really a problem.
PS. When aliens and marines both have acquired their end-tech (and this demands 3 hives and 2 CCs) they are on equal footage. No game-mechanic should end such a game without effort by the players, or it will feel cheap and frustrate the players of one team.
i predict that marine turtles ending in <5 minutes can only be good for the metagame.
contaminate should be a 'scout this or die' strategy. it's easy enough for marines to expect such a strategy as a time bomb if aliens make 3 hives... it's only at that point in a game you'd need to prepare for it.
i predict that marine turtles ending in <5 minutes can only be good for the metagame.
contaminate should be a 'scout this or die' strategy. it's easy enough for marines to expect such a strategy as a time bomb if aliens make 3 hives... it's only at that point in a game you'd need to prepare for it.
If marines have only one tech point, or they have two but are tightly locked inside their base, contaminate should be devastating. It should be nigh on impossible for the marines to withstand a contaminate attack without pushing out of their base and pushing aliens back.
If marines are not locked inside their base, and still have a level of control which allows them to roam around certain parts of the map, contaminate should not be effective at all.
This is a turtle ending ability. If they are not turtling, it should not work.
As it stands currently, I would think that a turtling marine team would have a better chance of fending off a contaminate attack than one which is actively attacking other parts of the map.
i predict that marine turtles ending in <5 minutes can only be good for the metagame.
contaminate should be a 'scout this or die' strategy. it's easy enough for marines to expect such a strategy as a time bomb if aliens make 3 hives... it's only at that point in a game you'd need to prepare for it.
If marines have only one tech point, or they have two but are tightly locked inside their base, contaminate should be devastating. It should be nigh on impossible for the marines to withstand a contaminate attack without pushing out of their base and pushing aliens back.
If marines are not locked inside their base, and still have a level of control which allows them to roam around certain parts of the map, contaminate should not be effective at all.
This is a turtle ending ability. If they are not turtling, it should not work.
As it stands currently, I would think that a turtling marine team would have a better chance of fending off a contaminate attack than one which is actively attacking other parts of the map.
a turtle team can't really stop a contaminate attack, because the aliens have enough res to perma-spam whips etc... good luck stopping that with bile bombs/onos/fade/spores/umbra etc.
@tarquinbb you obviously can't understand that @Imbaxlax was saying that a turtling team would be able to stop the contamination due to camping in base, a team that's pushing a hive will not see it coming until its too late and the ggs are thrown. Anyways it's a mute point and I don't see arguing with you is going to change anything.
I made a suggestion for a more passive, siege like version of contaminate. It would be unable to "break the base" of marines who are actively moving around the map.
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And where exactly is he going to drop it if not on structures? In the hallway outside the marine base? It infests a very large area, few if any tech points have enough space for it to be completely clear.
Anyway, the game is never SUPPOSED to be in an equal state, except for at 0:00. If that were the case, then when should games ever end? We should not be having 2 hour long stalemates because nobody can get a clear advantage, that can still be fun once in a while but it is seriously not the way the game is intended to play
No the game must end at some point but taking away marines chance of wining even if the game is a long one shouldn't be an option either... The end is not satisfying because all of a sudden whips popped up and destroyed your hopes and dreams of ever fighting back to victory.
I didn't thought of ARCs either. Let's just wait and see how it develops the metagame.
It is a good idea. It does prevent turtles. We just need to see if the theorized downsides are really a problem.
PS. When aliens and marines both have acquired their end-tech (and this demands 3 hives and 2 CCs) they are on equal footage. No game-mechanic should end such a game without effort by the players, or it will feel cheap and frustrate the players of one team.
The infestation spreads out reasonably slowly. The whips would be echo'd in only a second or so after it reaches its maximum area, and even then, the area really isn't that large. Some tech rooms would indeed pose a problem, but there are also ones where there would most likely be no structures in range of the contaminate.
As for equal states, this game is first and foremost an FPS. The primary decider of a game should therefore be FPS ability, not strategic advantage. Its also worth noting that, given two equally skilled teams, the moment the game is no longer equal, the winner is essentially already decided, as a team is highly unlikely to make a comeback against an equally skilled team with an advantage.
What necro said. I was originally under the assumption that the contamination was invulnerable except that whips could be killed with arcs... Hope this gets adjusted correctly or possibly moved to a gorge ability, but I'm done arguing my point. Sorry if my non stop posting has upset anyone, but I'm just bored and unhappy that I can barely play my favorite game at the moment due to performance issues and constant crashes... Thus I tend to take to the forums in disgust
i predict that marine turtles ending in <5 minutes can only be good for the metagame.
contaminate should be a 'scout this or die' strategy. it's easy enough for marines to expect such a strategy as a time bomb if aliens make 3 hives... it's only at that point in a game you'd need to prepare for it.
If marines have only one tech point, or they have two but are tightly locked inside their base, contaminate should be devastating. It should be nigh on impossible for the marines to withstand a contaminate attack without pushing out of their base and pushing aliens back.
If marines are not locked inside their base, and still have a level of control which allows them to roam around certain parts of the map, contaminate should not be effective at all.
This is a turtle ending ability. If they are not turtling, it should not work.
As it stands currently, I would think that a turtling marine team would have a better chance of fending off a contaminate attack than one which is actively attacking other parts of the map.
a turtle team can't really stop a contaminate attack, because the aliens have enough res to perma-spam whips etc... good luck stopping that with bile bombs/onos/fade/spores/umbra etc.