I didn't know who the hell Cory was until a week ago, and I've been on these forums for like a year.
Then really there's only so much a team can do.. let alone a small indie team.. to communicate to people such as yourself.
What would you suggest they do different? What other avenues of communication would you like to see? They regularly blog, post videos, twitter their asses off, post in the forums, assist in tech support, steam forums, facebook, you can even reach almost any of them through email and private messages.. and when you cannot there is a whole team of testers who can relay and get answers for you.
Do you want an in game main menu letter stating what Cory just said? Daily thoughts and responses from them? What do you want exactly if your participation in communication was only so far as not even knowing who the dev team members are, posting the forums you post in? (IDK what you could have thought the giant yellow highlighted posts meant?)
And then once you've settled on your answer, ask yourself how much time and effort you want spent on said communication, full well knowing that every time it occurs it brings them away from developing the game you are playing.
I am not being facetious, i am genuinely asking what you are expecting from such a team, and if you consider that expectation to be practical and realistic.
You have to be highly motivated to get anything fixed when you're on PT, and you have to do it for free. A lot of extremely competent people have been on the PT team in the past and quit because of the counter-productive structure surrounding PT.
a lot of the competent players are on map testing! And a lot of the really time devoted testers are on private testing, I personally can't stand those kind of things because I did it for dungeon defenders and it was the most annoying thing I've done for free ever
However map testing is something that's more enjoyable :}
Months ahead of time we had to book a booth at PAX. This required us to show newly released content, that is the whole point of spending the money to do a show like that. We had to slot in the sale and free weekend well ahead of time, all very key in a successful rollout of Reinforced. With no press, no sales, no hype, all the time and money spent on the Reinforced update would be a waste, and to get all of that you need to plan the release date long in advance.
So, no, simply choosing to not release the patch was absolutely, unequivocally, NOT an option.
But at the same time releasing a literal game breaking patch has left a very bad taste in the mouths of potentially thousands of players who tried to play and for whatever reasons could not. Again, the steam forums are full of users who couldn't even get the game to run. How does that help UWE by showing to many people that their product can't even load? Even diehard fanboys (who no longer have any sense of dignity or credibility) who have defended the company over everything were forced to admit there were problems.
I understand that UWE doesn't want to release a patch without promotions, but at the same time, I constantly feel that outside of the Gorgeous update, the game has serious issues with sales. The steam charts alone suggest that retention of new players is downright awful. Based on the Steam Sale and player quit rate, it would be generous to assume 15% of new players from the Steam Sales actually stuck around. How many players during this free weekend are going to remember the problems with crashing to desktop regularly, inability to load, 15 minute preaching, and bad frame rates and associate that with UWE's future products? In today's brutal market, you often only have a single chance to make a good impression and this free weekend wasn't a good impression for many players. Some slogged through it and liked the game because there were Vets who were there to help them and didn't engage in pub stomping. But I can't help but look at the pages and pages and pages of less than happy free weekenders posting on technical issues on Steam Forums seeing that releasing this patch was a mistake. At least you're not the only ones. Creative Assembly just mucked up Rome Total War II.
We killed ourselves to hit that deadline, our PTs killed themselves testing the game so that we could hit that deadline. We pulled the game together into what, from testing, seemed to be a pretty stable release state. We tested on the range of machines we had, with the people we had, and we did not see all the crashing and widespread performance issues that we saw when we finally released the patch. Sure, if we'd had the luxury of time, the patch could have benefited from another week or two of testing time. But most likely, there still would have been a wide assortment of issues that would only have revealed themselves when we released to the public. For example, it appears that some of the crashes and issues may be related to the fact that SLI driver profiles have been created for the previous version of the game, but with all the changes to the rendering, those are now incompatible, and will need to be addressed by the graphics card manufacturers.
From what I read on the Steam forums, very few people had dual video card setups and from the Steam Survey, very few people comparatively have dual card setups period. You're right that more testing should have been done. Perhaps UWE should move to the smaller patch rather than bigger patch mantra? TF2's patch problems are almost always with big patches. The small frequent patches they do never result in the kind of game breaking mechanics that 253/254 had.
We released a HUGE content update, and everyone involved put everything they had into getting it ready for release. And as draining as that process was, we still managed to fix, test and release multiple follow up patches to smooth things over. And, despite the accusations, and the second guessing, and the wild assumptions that have been taking over the forums, we remain pretty damn proud of what we accomplished. Many people have performance issues and we are working on fixing those up ASAP. But many people do not. The game ran like a dream at PAX. The game sold very well during the sale, despite all the doom and gloom around these parts about how harmful the free weekend was. Many old and new players are enjoying the patch and are having a blast, and despite the bumpiness of the rollout, Reinforced was a success. Now, instead of dwelling on what could and should have been done differently, can we please move on and look to the future?
Thanks for hearing me out
--Cory
Question is, how many times can UWE leave a bad taste in the mouths of gamers and expect to have a future?
Looks like the game did have decent sales, but it doesn't appear they're staying as active peak is down to less than half of peak. Active peak pop is already down 53% from the day after the free weekend which removes all of the free weekenders who didn't pay. Will this sale replicate the nearly 70% two week drop rates from the past summer sales?
From what I read, the gloom and doom about the free weekend was veteran players complaining about new players (which is ridiculous, we all were noobs at one point). The real problem with a free weekend that doesn't go smoothly is showing players a less than good product.
Let's consult some consumer relations stats shall we?
A dissatisfied customer will tell between 9-15 people about their experience. Around 13% of dissatisfied customers tell more than 20 people. – White House Office of Consumer Affairs
Happy customers who get their issue resolved tell about 4-6 people about their experience. – White House Office of Consumer Affairs
This I think is the real threat to the company's future. And we see this right now with legions and legions of EA haters who actively go out of their way not to buy EA products and tell their friends not to buy EA products. EA's won the worst company in America a record twice. With a smaller company like UWE, the impact of having unhappy customers telling their friends becomes more dangerous as you have fewer products to alleviate the damage. Part of EA's savings grace is a few large games and multiplatforms. Unfortunately, UWE doesn't have this. I'm not saying that UWE is anywhere near to becoming EA (actually, the firm is quite far from it), but it's merely an example of how unhappy customers can have a real impact on a company by discouraging others from buying. How many sales were lost by customers who found the game unplayable and told their friends? How many were lost by customers who told their friends about the toxic pub stomping?
I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news, but the numbers don't lie. I read the interview where someone from UWE admitted that it made a mistake by not hiring a business oriented worker to handle that aspect of the business. Has this been corrected? Because it doesn't look like it.
EDIT: Here's a perfect example of what I'm talking about
Lots of unhappy customers saying effectively "don't buy this game." There's currently 8 pages with the vast majority saying "don't buy"
Creative Assembly really screwed the poouch. Imagine how many sales CA and SEGA are losing to that one thread. Imagine how many future sales they're going to lose from that one thread. These days, you got one chance to make a good impression. CA just blew that with RTWII.
While you say that the game ran fine for many people, I see pages and pages of free players complaining about technical issues as proof that there were substantial numbers of players who were seriously impacted by the flaws of the patch. I loaded up build 253 the day before the Free Weekend and it was a total lagfest. Marines were completely unplayable. 254 fixed that considerably, but it was still choppy at times. Gone was the smoothness of 249/250.
I think it's good that the content is being added, but I think it's terrible that content is being prioritized over optimization. What good is content if dozens and dozens of players cannot even get the game to load?
*snip* Come back when you are ready to be civil -Ironhorse
ugh, at least only snip the part you don't think is civil, I assume it was the part with shoving. anyway, to reiterate, briefly. don't put words in my mouth, you're entitled to be indignant, but you're not entitled to be justified in that indignation.
that I do not connect the first name of dev team, to their online aliases, does not mean I am unaware of their posts.
don't criticize people for not reading in game news items when in game news items aren't functional on all rigs.
and, what I expect from uwe in terms of communication, is to be informed of when and why I am to be conscripted as a playtester.
that about sums it up.
to add to that, I would ask that you not hold a double standard for yourself when editing. your word choice in your passive aggressive response was insulting, which was why I responded in kind.
Comments
What would you suggest they do different? What other avenues of communication would you like to see? They regularly blog, post videos, twitter their asses off, post in the forums, assist in tech support, steam forums, facebook, you can even reach almost any of them through email and private messages.. and when you cannot there is a whole team of testers who can relay and get answers for you.
Do you want an in game main menu letter stating what Cory just said? Daily thoughts and responses from them? What do you want exactly if your participation in communication was only so far as not even knowing who the dev team members are, posting the forums you post in? (IDK what you could have thought the giant yellow highlighted posts meant?)
And then once you've settled on your answer, ask yourself how much time and effort you want spent on said communication, full well knowing that every time it occurs it brings them away from developing the game you are playing.
I am not being facetious, i am genuinely asking what you are expecting from such a team, and if you consider that expectation to be practical and realistic.
a lot of the competent players are on map testing! And a lot of the really time devoted testers are on private testing, I personally can't stand those kind of things because I did it for dungeon defenders and it was the most annoying thing I've done for free ever
However map testing is something that's more enjoyable :}
I have seen many MANY more servers simply tanking rates on the new build.
I do not mean small drops, I mean catastrophic sinkholes up to 5 ticks, even official ones.
That may very well be part of the performance problem many experience.
But at the same time releasing a literal game breaking patch has left a very bad taste in the mouths of potentially thousands of players who tried to play and for whatever reasons could not. Again, the steam forums are full of users who couldn't even get the game to run. How does that help UWE by showing to many people that their product can't even load? Even diehard fanboys (who no longer have any sense of dignity or credibility) who have defended the company over everything were forced to admit there were problems.
I understand that UWE doesn't want to release a patch without promotions, but at the same time, I constantly feel that outside of the Gorgeous update, the game has serious issues with sales. The steam charts alone suggest that retention of new players is downright awful. Based on the Steam Sale and player quit rate, it would be generous to assume 15% of new players from the Steam Sales actually stuck around. How many players during this free weekend are going to remember the problems with crashing to desktop regularly, inability to load, 15 minute preaching, and bad frame rates and associate that with UWE's future products? In today's brutal market, you often only have a single chance to make a good impression and this free weekend wasn't a good impression for many players. Some slogged through it and liked the game because there were Vets who were there to help them and didn't engage in pub stomping. But I can't help but look at the pages and pages and pages of less than happy free weekenders posting on technical issues on Steam Forums seeing that releasing this patch was a mistake. At least you're not the only ones. Creative Assembly just mucked up Rome Total War II.
From what I read on the Steam forums, very few people had dual video card setups and from the Steam Survey, very few people comparatively have dual card setups period. You're right that more testing should have been done. Perhaps UWE should move to the smaller patch rather than bigger patch mantra? TF2's patch problems are almost always with big patches. The small frequent patches they do never result in the kind of game breaking mechanics that 253/254 had.
Question is, how many times can UWE leave a bad taste in the mouths of gamers and expect to have a future?
There is absolutely no question that retention is bad:
http://steamcharts.com/app/4920#All
Looks like the game did have decent sales, but it doesn't appear they're staying as active peak is down to less than half of peak. Active peak pop is already down 53% from the day after the free weekend which removes all of the free weekenders who didn't pay. Will this sale replicate the nearly 70% two week drop rates from the past summer sales?
From what I read, the gloom and doom about the free weekend was veteran players complaining about new players (which is ridiculous, we all were noobs at one point). The real problem with a free weekend that doesn't go smoothly is showing players a less than good product.
Let's consult some consumer relations stats shall we?
This I think is the real threat to the company's future. And we see this right now with legions and legions of EA haters who actively go out of their way not to buy EA products and tell their friends not to buy EA products. EA's won the worst company in America a record twice. With a smaller company like UWE, the impact of having unhappy customers telling their friends becomes more dangerous as you have fewer products to alleviate the damage. Part of EA's savings grace is a few large games and multiplatforms. Unfortunately, UWE doesn't have this. I'm not saying that UWE is anywhere near to becoming EA (actually, the firm is quite far from it), but it's merely an example of how unhappy customers can have a real impact on a company by discouraging others from buying. How many sales were lost by customers who found the game unplayable and told their friends? How many were lost by customers who told their friends about the toxic pub stomping?
I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news, but the numbers don't lie. I read the interview where someone from UWE admitted that it made a mistake by not hiring a business oriented worker to handle that aspect of the business. Has this been corrected? Because it doesn't look like it.
EDIT: Here's a perfect example of what I'm talking about
http://steamcommunity.com/app/214950/discussions/0/864977564676600972/#p1
Lots of unhappy customers saying effectively "don't buy this game." There's currently 8 pages with the vast majority saying "don't buy"
Creative Assembly really screwed the poouch. Imagine how many sales CA and SEGA are losing to that one thread. Imagine how many future sales they're going to lose from that one thread. These days, you got one chance to make a good impression. CA just blew that with RTWII.
While you say that the game ran fine for many people, I see pages and pages of free players complaining about technical issues as proof that there were substantial numbers of players who were seriously impacted by the flaws of the patch. I loaded up build 253 the day before the Free Weekend and it was a total lagfest. Marines were completely unplayable. 254 fixed that considerably, but it was still choppy at times. Gone was the smoothness of 249/250.
I think it's good that the content is being added, but I think it's terrible that content is being prioritized over optimization. What good is content if dozens and dozens of players cannot even get the game to load?
ugh, at least only snip the part you don't think is civil, I assume it was the part with shoving. anyway, to reiterate, briefly. don't put words in my mouth, you're entitled to be indignant, but you're not entitled to be justified in that indignation.
that I do not connect the first name of dev team, to their online aliases, does not mean I am unaware of their posts.
don't criticize people for not reading in game news items when in game news items aren't functional on all rigs.
and, what I expect from uwe in terms of communication, is to be informed of when and why I am to be conscripted as a playtester.
that about sums it up.
to add to that, I would ask that you not hold a double standard for yourself when editing. your word choice in your passive aggressive response was insulting, which was why I responded in kind.
ps, saw some pax footage, it was entertaining.