I can't play this game anymore
Badass_Ben
Join Date: 2012-11-23 Member: 173017Members
Join Date: 2012-11-23 Member: 173017Members
I know this is gonna sound like bullshit, and usually i would think so, but its become so blatant and consistent i cant take it anymore:
A double standard. What do i mean?
Just had a game where i FULL shotgun hit a skulk center mass hit, and he gets away. Weapons 1, so i figure, bad luck or carapace or something. Then i play skulk. I come across a marine with a shotgun at the OPPOSITE end of the hallway (the long hallway from terminal to courtyard on docking) and i get killed in 2 shots (first bringing me down to 7 health) he gets 2 off because i stuck around to parasite and figured a shotgun at that distance wouldnt be insta lethal (relatively early game, definately not weapons 3). I bite marines multiple times yet i cant seem to kill anyone. And im not a newbie to this game, or shooters in general. I know how to aim, i know I am hitting my targets. so dont tell my L2P. What else can i do if on my screen i am hitting my targets? ALl i can think is hit recognition is wonky. I play mostly on the kahuna servers. I just cant take it anymore. And i cant suggest a game to friends if i dont enjoy it myself. If anyone else is having this, it could hurt the community
A double standard. What do i mean?
Just had a game where i FULL shotgun hit a skulk center mass hit, and he gets away. Weapons 1, so i figure, bad luck or carapace or something. Then i play skulk. I come across a marine with a shotgun at the OPPOSITE end of the hallway (the long hallway from terminal to courtyard on docking) and i get killed in 2 shots (first bringing me down to 7 health) he gets 2 off because i stuck around to parasite and figured a shotgun at that distance wouldnt be insta lethal (relatively early game, definately not weapons 3). I bite marines multiple times yet i cant seem to kill anyone. And im not a newbie to this game, or shooters in general. I know how to aim, i know I am hitting my targets. so dont tell my L2P. What else can i do if on my screen i am hitting my targets? ALl i can think is hit recognition is wonky. I play mostly on the kahuna servers. I just cant take it anymore. And i cant suggest a game to friends if i dont enjoy it myself. If anyone else is having this, it could hurt the community
Comments
Then I would believe they are truly committed to quitting NS2.
Otherwise I chalk it up to "it's just another whining post."
always make high-ping people play aliens. they ruin game as marines
If you would record your games and look at this occasions frame by frame, you would see, that you are actually not hitting.
I'm not sure what the technical details are, but to me it (anecdotally) feels like people aren't penalized for having 200+ ping in the game sometimes. I'm not elitist, but if the game is coded to keep inDERPolating forever, wouldn't that mean that a person with 1000+ ping can have a "free" 500ms-50ms(other person's ping)=450ms to fire shots at something around a corner before the other person even sees him? Isn't that how it works?
I'm not sure, but there probably should be some fairly low upper boundary (100-150ms) where actions outside of pure movement would just be dropped and repeated when they're too far "in the future"(past?)... ok, I never got to time critical network programming, but in summary it just seems like there's opportunity to "cheat" with a high ping... or maybe it's just me being paranoid. Or maybe there already is an upper boundary of how far the game server will tolerate interpolated shots.
There are a lot of players who don't have servers hosted in their countries, which means they wouldn't be able to play anymore at all.
It can seem unfair sometimes, but just remember, that guy with the 250 ping is at the massive disadvantage of being seen before he knows he's been seen. Playing aliens well with a 250 ping takes some skill. Playing marines with a 250 ping is also considerably harder than with a low ping.
The 'advantage' high ping players get is that pub aliens treat them like idiots, because "omg he hasn't seen me!" There is no other advantage to having a high ping. If you're playing against a high pinger, you just have to make sure you don't mistake them for a green instead
OR could you have been flanked and not noticed...
There is only so much ground a rine can cover in 250 ms. And with shot gun spreed this does sound odd...
Like everyone else said need captured video if you had <30 hp then sure it was reasonable if you had 60+ then it's questionable... Anything in between IMO would be a matter of shit luck...
As far as missing the perfect shot, I feel your frustration it's why I rarely buy early shotgun before lvl 2...
I regularly play on US servers and I filter to < 300.
The basic gist is:
If I have 300 ping and you have 30 then you see me 330ms before I see you (if you don't count interp). The opposite of this is also true, where if you try to duck to cover where you can't see me, I still have 330ms where I can see you.
Basically what this means is that in an engagement you get the initial advantage. If you try to run, then I'm shooting you around corners.
The other part to ping difference is dodging. Whatever you see on your screen you hit. Whatever I see on my screen I hit. But if I'm 330ms behind you (again discounting interp) then where you see me on your screen isn't where I see myself on my screen. This is why it seems like you are getting bitten from 10m away on the regular.
If say I have ping 50 and player X has ping 450 and we both have 1hp. If I shoot player X and 200 MS later player x bites me who wins?
Do I see him rise from the dead and kill me?
Take A0 marines vs base skulks as an example:
My 300ping skulk lands a para on you, then I land 2 bites.
Your 30 ping marine gets hit with the para, reacts and starts shooting. Dealing 100dmg.
Because it takes my client 300ms to send my data to the server, and your client only 30ms what happens is: If your 100dmg gets back to the servers before my 2nd bite does, I die and you live. What will generally happen on my screen (talking from experience playing high ping on US servers :P) is that I will land the 2nd bite, and then die...without killing the marine. This is because what I see is what I see, same as you...but the server gets the information at different times. (AFAIK).
In the case of a high ping, I believe the high pinger has an advantage of seeing the other person first IF the high-pinger is the one moving (or both are moving) due to the delay, in essence, his movements and shooting is "in the future" compared to people with lower ping. This is because players' positions are always broadcast to the client, so you don't see people "popping up" out of thin air after you've already turned a corner, and just because it's also computationally cheaper that way - the server just broadcasts everyone's coordinates instead of doing calculations to determine who is visible to who... (this is also what makes easy to write wallhacks possible in games)...
but anyway, as far as "who shot first" inDERPolation isn't necessarily the issue. The issue is who saw who first around a corner, and also when someone's receiving damage before going around a corner the damage displayed on the receiving person's screen vs the damage dealt by the person with high ping (issues with damage dealt not showing up on the receiving person's screen because of delay).
TL;DR inDERPolation-caused time travel sucks.
Basically, if you want to avoid dying (not only in this game but also in others), think about your enemy being your+their ping ms ahead of you in time, or your character actually moving (and thus being able to be shot) with your+their ping delay on their screen. Unfortunate side-effect of playing on the internetS (they are a series of tubes after all, and sometimes the tubes are long and rusty).
i.e. if you're a lerk, start moving when you have 150 health left, not 50 or 25. Often, you have some damage dealt to you on other people's clients, or you're already dead - you just don't know it yet because their clients haven't sent the packets to the server and the server hasn't sent them to you ^_^ ...
The sooner we can create a rookie division and lower the bar in the ensl the better.
In english: 24 player servers don't usually perform well
You always have back and forth "Plyr1----Server----Plyer2".
3 types of lag/issue:
1 / Typical network lag (ex: different routes for Plyr1-Server Server-Plyer1), distance etc...
2 / Server (software) lag. Apparently even with good pings (LAN) you have lags. Probably because of programming. With a LUA product it's doesn't surprise me. I remember FarCry developers did modify the compiler in order to make "objects" fit in memory. This game must consume a lot.
3 / Then you have the "how you do things" generally. If update are sent on any event (client and server) instead of a "scheduled" update; the game behavior (reacting/balanced) will be different between the two opponent in a 1:1 engagement. Or even if server software waits for something, it has an effect on everything else.
Actually, when you hear a skulk biting your ass for the first time, on his side of the world he is already at the second hit, maybe the third. I often dies thinking i'm out of reach behind a corner wall, but still... the lag shot comes in.
I do suspect that hit-boxes also aren't precisely on the model. I shot in front of a skulk that was going left to right on my screen. I thought he shouldn't have died. But he did. I vote for having the (if it is confirmed as a bug) hit-box right on the model. Anticipation has its limits.
Because all numbers you see in the scoreboard aren't acurate. It is never but here there is a big gap. You can have the same ping number on your normal connexion and on second hand connected to a distant VPN. hmmm.... It would be interesting to have an accurate measurement on network/sever delays. NTP protocol is a fine example for that. Synchronize clocks (or a virtual clock) and measuring the travel time of events from left to right is a good way to do things. Funny that events of a game (sending bullet event) look like suffering from actual physical world, like it would with air friction, but it's network... how bad is this ???
I do think server admins go up up up, on player slots because they can't make 3 servers on 1 machine. So using a machine at it's maximum is better. Also if a server performance is exponentially weaker with more players it simply means something is weak in the code.
NS2 is not "optimized" for a 6vs6. Calibrated and locked on a 6vs6 is more accurate. That i think it's a mistake to lock balance on 6vs6. And frankly i do not like the idea of competitive only play. It's not because it is pub that teams can't play properly. Competitive looks like ppl want to prove something and is ultimately repetitive (these last days). I don't have this issue; i just wanna play.
If there was enough players and people at your level in that same 6v6, this wouldn't be an issue like you're perceiving it to be.. unfortunately the game doesn't have the base to do that; wish it did.. I'm really curious if the game launched with great performance and in more of a similar state of how it is now if it would have been played massively, because in reality this is def one of the best fps games to come out in the past 5-10 years along with one of the best and community driven development teams, nothing else really comes to mind
You would limit me personally to 1-2 servers out of what gets consistently populated. I often have to play on central/east coast servers where I get 100-120 ping.
@UncleCrunch
As far as I know, its not so much something being weak in the code persay, but more the use of lua for the game. When they implemented lua jit instead of lua in B249 it helped a lot but there is still performance problems.
1. Read "man lag"
2. Come back and shoot space bugs like a grown-up!
I got a three year old or so i5 760 @2.8 GhZ, 4 GB RAM, GTX 460. When I bought it 3 years ago, it was already a "price/performance ratio"-system. And still this game runs great even today. You can't buy Crysis 3 with a 5 year old PC, live in Australia and play on an American server and expect the game to run smoothly and with a ping of 15. Will this non-stop complaining ever stop?
Now aim where they were that amount of time ago, great reg.
While rates WILL help this game, I've played on DAK and it's amazing the difference it makes, but this kind of compensation is the only way to make this game reasonable, it's also why you feel like you're getting hit around a corner or a dead on shot isn't hitting. It's because the hitboxes are behind the model.
I'm basing this solely off of experience. But with a shotgun when I a twitch, I twitch to the tail end of a skulk and it hits dead on.
Perhaps that Lightning Gun was meant to be an instant-hit shot at the target - but to me it was a simulation of a bullet traveling towards the target in 80 ms!
We didn't need client-side sissy lag compensation back then! Playing on servers located on the other side of the world was just playing in HARD MODE!!!
that makes it fair for everyday play, but you can't go across the world and ruin games by shooting people a second after they think they go around a corner
I honestly prefer that method, because when playing at lower pings it felt even better; and you understood when your ping was higher you had to lead shots; it felt more consistent and better overall to be honest