Bunny hop does not = skill. It turns it into a spam and chance fest. The more a game is centralized around jerky random spaz, the less actual player skill means. You can try to say otherwise, but it reduces calculated decisions and turns it into a reflex and "hip fire" game (dont forget cone of fire already there).
This isnt a precise, calculated movement, headshot kind of game. Its a spam spacebar and fling your character around as much as possible and hope you get the first kill.... if you think that bunny hopping and spraying cone of fire/melee weapons = skill over calculated headshots and accuracy, you have a skewed view (biased!).
What you are calling spam is actually a very controlled set of actions. The problem is that you don't know what you're doing, so it looks like spam to you. This is called the Dunning Kruger effect and you are being a poster child for it right now.
In any online community it is a good idea to first acclimate yourself to that community by lurking around for a bit and getting a feel for the values of that community. What you've done is pretty much the opposite.
Bunny hop does not = skill. It turns it into a spam and chance fest. The more a game is centralized around jerky random spaz, the less actual player skill means. You can try to say otherwise, but it reduces calculated decisions and turns it into a reflex and "hip fire" game (dont forget cone of fire already there).
This isnt a precise, calculated movement, headshot kind of game. Its a spam spacebar and fling your character around as much as possible and hope you get the first kill.... if you think that bunny hopping and spraying cone of fire/melee weapons = skill over calculated headshots and accuracy, you have a skewed view (biased!).
You sir have no idea. I've been following your posts lately and notice that everything you say is met with massive disagree's so I'm guessing your UWE's latest troll. 27 & 22 disagree's on both threads you have opened.
Lets run off a checklist:
- Twitch Aim required while controlling your own movement
- Tracking aim required while controlling your own movement
- Positioning awareness
- Map awareness
- Counting bullets
- X and Y axis shooting, compared to shooting on 1 axis
- Meta game
- Multiple movement systems to learn; marine, skulk, lerk, fade
NS1 has very calculated decisions in everything you do. Do not even compare NS skillset to counter strike. It just makes you sound like an idiot. CS is a hard game, but it is hard for very different reasons and to compare a game with a different skillset and say its less calculated, spammy and random is just... no words to describe you.
FYI; go youtube some warsow 1v1 duels. It's Quake 3 & NS1 skulk bhop physics + walljump 1v1 duels on the quake 2 engine. After watching that you might have some sort of clue
that is because of how forums end up as echo chambers
the negatives are simply a small pool of players likely already attached to the lower skill requirements of Natural Selection.
Im used to counterstrike, BF1-3, SCII, and other FPS over the years. The more a game requires you to make decisions, the better. NS2, at least in the FPS play, is very low on decisions.
People talk as if jumping is skill. Sorry, the skill cap for spamming spacebar is extremely low. Also, it isnt hard to aim at anything in any game. There is no bullet time to consider in NS2 (its there but action makes it negligible) and no varying cone of fire. You literally just RUN, SPAM SPACEBAR, point and shoot. If you have any mouse control, the aiming is simple and easy.
There are no 800 meter calculated headshots. There are no real "choices" to make. THe choices is all at the commander and team level, NOT the FPS level in this game.
The FPS component of NS2 is more random and spacebar (very easy to hit spacebar) orientated than a lot of other shooters right now. It really narrows the skill gap in the game as well. If Player A is a lot better than player B, you cant tell in NS2 because both are smashing spacebar and hoping they get the first kill. With too many random elements inserted, it will make skill less of a factor.
You would think that marines versus aliens would became a game of timing, skill, and decisions. Rather, its a run, backpeddle, bunnyhopping and spray/pray melee game.
Still tons of fun, but sadly, lower on skill requirements than one hopes for. Don't worry, its really easy to go 40-2 right now with the right unit and right team. Losing or low KDR isnt the issue. Any Fade, Ono, or Exo can get any player that ratio. For regular matchups, its luck and bunny hops as you all die to superior units.
Bunny hop does not = skill. It turns it into a spam and chance fest. The more a game is centralized around jerky random spaz, the less actual player skill means. You can try to say otherwise, but it reduces calculated decisions and turns it into a reflex and "hip fire" game (dont forget cone of fire already there).
This isnt a precise, calculated movement, headshot kind of game. Its a spam spacebar and fling your character around as much as possible and hope you get the first kill.... if you think that bunny hopping and spraying cone of fire/melee weapons = skill over calculated headshots and accuracy, you have a skewed view (biased!).
What you are calling spam is actually a very controlled set of actions. The problem is that you don't know what you're doing, so it looks like spam to you. This is called the Dunning Kruger effect and you are being a poster child for it right now.
In any online community it is a good idea to first acclimate yourself to that community by lurking around for a bit and getting a feel for the values of that community. What you've done is pretty much the opposite.
You're doing the "pulling nonsense out of your ass effect" right now. My last 3 games I was around between 25-7 and 51-2 ratios. Of course, teams, units, etc, all help play into that.
Ive been high scoring in any game I play... it isnt a skill issue. Instead, I feel that NS2 deprives you of skill when its based on jerky, random, button smashing. Smashing spacebar and ejecting yourself random directions every .25 seconds with a random cone of fire as the other guy does the same thing with melee is not skill. The skill cap to meet 80-90% of the benefit is extremely low.
Sure, if youre in the 90-100% range you can milk a slight advantage with slightly ebtter "jump skills" but you get 85% of the way there just by smashing the button.
Fix the animations, fix lag issues (all hits register late - at any latency. Latency is also extremely volatile in this game) and fix the jumping. Lower the frequency or ability for players to SPAM spacebar. Require skill! force them yo hit spacebar at the right moment.
For you to think this is skill is pathetic. Make it so that kill is more relevant, and you would find a game with less button smashing. Its current playstyle narrows the gap between the good and bad players. You want to make it bigger, not smaller. The more random elements implemented, the narrower it gets.
Try playing against a veteran marine who's anticipating your movement and timing his jumps. Compare that to a rookie marine who's just spamming jump randomly. The skill gap is actually pretty big.
If Player A is a lot better than player B, you cant tell in NS2 because both are smashing spacebar and hoping they get the first kill.
You haven't played against really good players, have you?
@MrRayChales you, sir, are comedy gold. Can we frame you for decoration?
I can't even begin to unpick the horrible mess of fallacy that comprises your posts, but suffice to say that when YOU are capable of going 40-2, people might take you a little more seriously about matters of life and death.
again, aiming for headies is a skill, twitch shots and gun based melee is also a skill. just because you find it easy, doesn't mean that others don't find it difficult, nor does it mean that there aren't people better at it than you. when someone 180s you in the face between the 2nd and third bite, that's a nice shot, and skilled. if it we're as simple as jump being the I-win key, skulks would never win. but they do, and so do marines who have mastered some skills.
When you are fighting marines you should not be going where the marine standing, but to the location where he will be standing when you get close. If a marine jumps to early his movement will be very predictable and the jump will only end up hurting his aim, experienced skulk would not be affected. If the marine jumps after the skulk is in close combat the skulk will be able to predict his movement easily and is often able to go under the marine giving him a easy kill.
Most experienced marines focus on a-d movement and only jump after they successfully outmanuver the skulk to create extra distance. There are some alternatives but simply jumping without timing it will only work against inexperienced skulks.
I once played Super Mario Bros and I juked the fuq out of those koopas with my jumps. I think I killed like 80 koopas before Bowser killed me. /sarcasm
P.S. Stop bringing kdr into every discussion in the forums.
When you are fighting marines you should not be going where the marine standing, but to the location where he will be standing when you get close. If a marine jumps to early his movement will be very predictable and the jump will only end up hurting his aim, experienced skulk would not be affected. If the marine jumps after the skulk is in close combat the skulk will be able to predict his movement easily and is often able to go under the marine giving him a easy kill.
Most experienced marines focus on a-d movement and only jump after they successfully outmanuver the skulk to create extra distance. There are some alternatives but simply jumping without timing it will only work against inexperienced skulks.
Psst... If marines can abuse it and aliens can abuse it, then it is inherently balanced....
But yeah jumping is a huge skill the difference between a floor skulk and anyone with skill is jumping... But it's not a mashing of the spacebar as you like to portray it.
It's the finesse of jumping from cover to cover, getting the para in, then snagging a bite as you jump past the rine into a wall where you perform a 180 degree wall jump back into the rine for the killing blow... When you perform this in the span of 1-2 seconds without becoming disoriented or missing a bite tell me you don't make any FPS decisions...
OP what do you want it to be? BF / COD clone where everyone camps behind something waiting for the enemy to appear in their sights? The market is saturated with those games.
I personally don't believe there is much skill in the camp fests I have seen in them either. Pretty much anyone can install the game, camp and start getting kills straight away.
Can't we have one game where some of the skill and fun lies in how you move?
Might surprise you that some of us play NS2 because it is a fast run and gun type game.
I f king hate slow paced tactical shooters!
This gives me an idea for a video of the same them as "if quake were made today" youtube.com/watch?v=W1ZtBCpo0eU Except it could be "If NS2 was made by Dice"
q3 was my earliest fps. and it will, to me, always be the quintessential fps experience. no frills, shoot everything that moves, no bullet spread, no aim down sights, control the map and be better than the other guy. all things that need to be said happen in a second or two.
quake 3 can handle erratic movement (because there is none) and spamming jumps (because you can't)
NS2 skulks can just flail around once in close range and they won't get hit
that's fine because skulks are supposed to have the advantage in those situations
just the way it's implemented in spark leaves much to be desired
Comments
What you are calling spam is actually a very controlled set of actions. The problem is that you don't know what you're doing, so it looks like spam to you. This is called the Dunning Kruger effect and you are being a poster child for it right now.
In any online community it is a good idea to first acclimate yourself to that community by lurking around for a bit and getting a feel for the values of that community. What you've done is pretty much the opposite.
that is because of how forums end up as echo chambers
the negatives are simply a small pool of players likely already attached to the lower skill requirements of Natural Selection.
Im used to counterstrike, BF1-3, SCII, and other FPS over the years. The more a game requires you to make decisions, the better. NS2, at least in the FPS play, is very low on decisions.
People talk as if jumping is skill. Sorry, the skill cap for spamming spacebar is extremely low. Also, it isnt hard to aim at anything in any game. There is no bullet time to consider in NS2 (its there but action makes it negligible) and no varying cone of fire. You literally just RUN, SPAM SPACEBAR, point and shoot. If you have any mouse control, the aiming is simple and easy.
There are no 800 meter calculated headshots. There are no real "choices" to make. THe choices is all at the commander and team level, NOT the FPS level in this game.
The FPS component of NS2 is more random and spacebar (very easy to hit spacebar) orientated than a lot of other shooters right now. It really narrows the skill gap in the game as well. If Player A is a lot better than player B, you cant tell in NS2 because both are smashing spacebar and hoping they get the first kill. With too many random elements inserted, it will make skill less of a factor.
You would think that marines versus aliens would became a game of timing, skill, and decisions. Rather, its a run, backpeddle, bunnyhopping and spray/pray melee game.
Still tons of fun, but sadly, lower on skill requirements than one hopes for. Don't worry, its really easy to go 40-2 right now with the right unit and right team. Losing or low KDR isnt the issue. Any Fade, Ono, or Exo can get any player that ratio. For regular matchups, its luck and bunny hops as you all die to superior units.
You're doing the "pulling nonsense out of your ass effect" right now. My last 3 games I was around between 25-7 and 51-2 ratios. Of course, teams, units, etc, all help play into that.
Ive been high scoring in any game I play... it isnt a skill issue. Instead, I feel that NS2 deprives you of skill when its based on jerky, random, button smashing. Smashing spacebar and ejecting yourself random directions every .25 seconds with a random cone of fire as the other guy does the same thing with melee is not skill. The skill cap to meet 80-90% of the benefit is extremely low.
Sure, if youre in the 90-100% range you can milk a slight advantage with slightly ebtter "jump skills" but you get 85% of the way there just by smashing the button.
Fix the animations, fix lag issues (all hits register late - at any latency. Latency is also extremely volatile in this game) and fix the jumping. Lower the frequency or ability for players to SPAM spacebar. Require skill! force them yo hit spacebar at the right moment.
For you to think this is skill is pathetic. Make it so that kill is more relevant, and you would find a game with less button smashing. Its current playstyle narrows the gap between the good and bad players. You want to make it bigger, not smaller. The more random elements implemented, the narrower it gets.
Try playing against a veteran marine who's anticipating your movement and timing his jumps. Compare that to a rookie marine who's just spamming jump randomly. The skill gap is actually pretty big.
You haven't played against really good players, have you?
I can't even begin to unpick the horrible mess of fallacy that comprises your posts, but suffice to say that when YOU are capable of going 40-2, people might take you a little more seriously about matters of life and death.
Most experienced marines focus on a-d movement and only jump after they successfully outmanuver the skulk to create extra distance. There are some alternatives but simply jumping without timing it will only work against inexperienced skulks.
P.S. Stop bringing kdr into every discussion in the forums.
Anyway...
Read this.
Yay Grissi!
/thread
But yeah jumping is a huge skill the difference between a floor skulk and anyone with skill is jumping... But it's not a mashing of the spacebar as you like to portray it.
It's the finesse of jumping from cover to cover, getting the para in, then snagging a bite as you jump past the rine into a wall where you perform a 180 degree wall jump back into the rine for the killing blow... When you perform this in the span of 1-2 seconds without becoming disoriented or missing a bite tell me you don't make any FPS decisions...
I personally don't believe there is much skill in the camp fests I have seen in them either. Pretty much anyone can install the game, camp and start getting kills straight away.
Can't we have one game where some of the skill and fun lies in how you move?
Might surprise you that some of us play NS2 because it is a fast run and gun type game.
I f king hate slow paced tactical shooters!
This gives me an idea for a video of the same them as "if quake were made today" youtube.com/watch?v=W1ZtBCpo0eU Except it could be "If NS2 was made by Dice"
NS2 skulks can just flail around once in close range and they won't get hit
that's fine because skulks are supposed to have the advantage in those situations
just the way it's implemented in spark leaves much to be desired