How not to die as fade [tutorial b250]

elodea

Hello,
Since alot of players seem to have problems either learning or relearning fade, here is a ghetto video showing how b250 fade kinda works.


Direct link for those who can't load the embedded video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rveE1Wleq_4

CCTEE

Nice post, really helpfull. Ill start practising.

Side1Bu2Rnz9

Really great post on the new fade mechanics... This video should be sticky'd due to the amount of people struggling to understand the fade.

Blarney_Stone

I haven't yet adapted to priming jumps with the space bar, I've just been timing them. I suppose I should probably change that

Kalopsia

Nice work dude.

Kamamura

Having to hold crouch all the time is retarded. I will go as far as saying that a lot of fade design is retarded, because it's inconsistent and does not make any sense, like being faster while walking diagonally (forward + strafe), or most of these trick based on the fact that some moves arbitrarily preserve momentum and some don't. If you want to find why new people are discouraged by this game, fade is number 1 reason. Basic game design should be transparent and simple, but hard to master, not these cryptic masonic handshakes necessary just to achieve such simple things as to move efficiently forward.

Therius

So the number one reason why this game can't keep its players has now shifted from performance, the shotgun, catering only to the comp community, too steep learning curve, the destroyed Docking and too many cheaters to the fade?

Neoken

This is the sort of video I expected UWE to release with b250. Nice work.

male_fatalities

Kamamura wrote: »

Having to hold crouch all the time is retarded. I will go as far as saying that a lot of fade design is retarded, because it's inconsistent and does not make any sense, like being faster while walking diagonally (forward + strafe), or most of these trick based on the fact that some moves arbitrarily preserve momentum and some don't. If you want to find why new people are discouraged by this game, fade is number 1 reason. Basic game design should be transparent and simple, but hard to master, not these cryptic masonic handshakes necessary just to achieve such simple things as to move efficiently forward.

Hmm... lets see

1. You are always meant to hold crouch when fading, it decreases your hitbox & collision model. This applies for both 249 and 250
2. There are lots of hidden mechanics in the game... lerk sharking, walljumping, speed while dropping

Every game has these...

Wob

Kamamura wrote: »

Having to hold crouch all the time is retarded. I will go as far as saying that a lot of fade design is retarded, because it's inconsistent and does not make any sense, like being faster while walking diagonally (forward + strafe), or most of these trick based on the fact that some moves arbitrarily preserve momentum and some don't. If you want to find why new people are discouraged by this game, fade is number 1 reason. Basic game design should be transparent and simple, but hard to master, not these cryptic masonic handshakes necessary just to achieve such simple things as to move efficiently forward.

Do you not ever accidentally do something and go "hang on, that was better than what I normally do..." and figure out exactly what it was? Then you put all these niche things together and suddenly, WOAH! You're fricken' awesome using all the tricks in the book. It made me feel so awesome when I figured out the optimal b249 fade and also when I figured out the b250 fade. Sure if you don't test it out yourself and you use a guide like bitey's videos you might feel like "this is dumb, why is it here", but discovering it yourself is a pretty amazing feeling.

I also love being able to pull off all the little tricks in different scenarios like perhaps I want to bunnyhop backwards as a fade because I heard a marine, but I'm low on hp and dont want to engage, but because I'm going backwards, I can peak at him just as he comes round the corner and WOAH HE HAS A GL??!? Better tell the team / prepare to engage pretty damn quickly before my shells go!

It's a tiny tiny little thing that allows me to use my momentum to carry on, turn around using mouse, use my knowledge of the map to make sure i dont clip anything, and peak at the marine. And it makes me feel AWESOME!

MaximumSquid

I didn't know about blinking down to increase speed, but then I've never used "debugspeed" either. . .

With lag it's hard, but if you're not lagging it's easy to tell when someone isn't missing against you and then you should just bail
The goal usually is to not have your health drop below shotgun range to guarantee you get out alive

Attack and Blink-Up is perfect for a single target, but not against multiple. . .
You will need to arc jump and with good air control you can land back at your original target

Later on you can do things like shadowstep into a 180 slash or work Vortex into the fight as well

Bottom line though is that Fade is pretty well 99% in your hands. . . you always get to choose how you die

Neoken

Kamamura wrote: »

Having to hold crouch all the time is retarded. I will go as far as saying that a lot of fade design is retarded, because it's inconsistent and does not make any sense, like being faster while walking diagonally (forward + strafe), or most of these trick based on the fact that some moves arbitrarily preserve momentum and some don't. If you want to find why new people are discouraged by this game, fade is number 1 reason. Basic game design should be transparent and simple, but hard to master, not these cryptic masonic handshakes necessary just to achieve such simple things as to move efficiently forward.

But it is so very very simple to tap blink and spam jump. You can even queue up jumps mid air to be sure your timing isn't off. Things like strafejumping can give a small edge to whoever takes the time to learn it, but it's in no way a requirement to move around effectively.

Ghosthree3

Should have just posted a video of nezz and said do the opposite.

EDIT: Lmao, gangster fade.

Mestaritonttu

"How to not die as a fade in 250" -anyone else went like, "as if you die", after reading that? Fades seem alot faster nowdays, regen is awesome and reduces low-health risk-taking, and shotguns deal less damage. 250 is Fade party time! :bz

Khyron

I was a level 2 fade. I might make it to level 3 now. Level 4 to leet for me.

[Deleted User]

Pitty you can't really teach people about the 'don't overcommit' part.

I do it all the time, and I KNOW I'm doing it. Just cant help myself, if there's a large group of marines I just need to be the first in there. Most of the time It's fine and I get out, but it's probably the reason for my fade deaths 90+% of the time.

Great video though, fade movement is so much fun when you've got it down, I'm sure others will come around to enjoying it with more practise

Roobubba

Reeke wrote: »

Pitty you can't really teach people about the 'don't overcommit' part.

I do it all the time, and I KNOW I'm doing it. Just cant help myself, if there's a large group of marines I just need to be the first in there. Most of the time It's fine and I get out, but it's probably the reason for my fade deaths 90+% of the time.

Great video though, fade movement is so much fun when you've got it down, I'm sure others will come around to enjoying it with more practise

That moment when you know precisely what you SHOULD do, but you still blink headfirst into the group of 5 marines with shotguns, thinking 'there's literally no way this will end well' and yet you STILL do it. Yup. I hate that!

zeep

Big help.
"Swipe Tap Blink Up" ?!? What is going on there? What are you doing? And what is swipe?
here

Frozen

Lol wow, I didn't even know you can't get max speed without the down blink. And that walk is a great tip as it makes you faster than marines.

IronHorse

This video tells me two changes are needed : having to look down and having to hold crouch constantly.

Both incredibly unintuitive and not at all communicated, yet both needed.

joshhh

The looking down thing I assume is a bug/flaw in the movement mechanic. Crouching, on the other hand, is not necessary. Is it helpful? Yes. Can you fade without doing it? Yes. Its the same with strafe jumping your skulk vs just hitting space. One option simply provides a benefit if you choose to do so but requires you to do more than w+space.

Kamamura

The fade should always move in a way that provides the smallest target. A button "press me constantly to be smaller" is silly. IronHorse understands it, and that's important.

RabidWeasel

I would argue that there's a difference between the kind of keyboard inputs/movements required for good strafe jumping vs. wanting to always have +duck applied when you're using blink.

joshhh

Then just remove crouch for fades. Giving some auto-crouch ability is a far sillier idea.

lwf

IronHorse wrote: »

This video tells me two changes are needed : having to look down and having to hold crouch constantly.

Both incredibly unintuitive and not at all communicated, yet both needed.

Needed to play, but are they really needed?

If any key needs to be pressed most of the time (movement keys aside) the mechanic behind it is broken somehow. Make it automatic, invert it and make it make sense somehow or buff the non-pressed state and nerf the pressed. It's an unnecessary nuisance, like having to hold a key for your character not to forget to breath.

This isn't critique of the video, the video is great, but just feels so much like a video showing how to exploit the rough corners of the movement code rather than how to play the game as it appears to be designed to.

Just try to imagine Hugh in those in-game videos saying any of these things to a new player. It's too weird and glitchy. "Hello and welcome to NS2. In NS2 you must wiggle wildly left and right to move forward at full speed, just like NS1". No, it's just too wrong. When the "real world" tutorial and the (imagined, build 250 equivalent to the old tutorials but not yet actually existing :P) official tutorial would be this different, then it shows we're not done yet. Yeah, I'm aware this is always the case to some degree, both before build 250 and before NS2, but really now.

twiliteblue

lwf wrote: »

IronHorse wrote: »

This video tells me two changes are needed : having to look down and having to hold crouch constantly.

Both incredibly unintuitive and not at all communicated, yet both needed.

Needed to play, but are they really needed?

If any key needs to be pressed most of the time (movement keys aside) the mechanic behind it is broken somehow. Make it automatic, invert it and make it make sense somehow or buff the non-pressed state and nerf the pressed. It's an unnecessary nuisance, like having to hold a key for your character not to forget to breath.

This isn't critique of the video, the video is great, but just feels so much like a video showing how to exploit the rough corners of the movement code rather than how to play the game as it appears to be designed to.

Just try to imagine Hugh in those in-game videos saying any of these things to a new player. It's too weird and glitchy. "Hello and welcome to NS2. In NS2 you must wiggle wildly left and right to move forward at full speed, just like NS1". No, it's just too wrong. When the "real world" tutorial and the (imagined, build 250 equivalent to the old tutorials but not yet actually existing :P) official tutorial would be this different, then it shows we're not done yet. Yeah, I'm aware this is always the case to some degree, both before build 250 and before NS2, but really now.

I think Ironhorse meant "both these 'features' need to be changed", as they are incredibly counter-intuitive and not at all communicated.

@Kamamura, your first post has along the same line of argument, but you could have spent more time on presentation and improve the wording.

Nice video, elodea! A+++. Will watch from again

IronHorse

An update : the looking down was indeed a bug and is fixed for next patch. ;-)

Thanks for taking the time to make that video @elodea !

Ghosthree3

"Fixed"? Does that mean you can't go that fast after the fix?

Frozen

Yo about +duck fades.

That isn't just a hold this button button. Try using it in your combat bdrop and you'll throw shots. It gives marines a perspective of you going to one height but then actually going to another.

Also the look down mechanic, unless the point of calling it a bug is that you think speed should be capped around 17-18 instead of 20-22, I'd consider skill based simply because it's not as easy to do in combat for escapes or jukes.

Exploiting systems to their full potential isn't "exploiting" in my opinion. None of the above are ridiculous, yaknow

Frozen

mattji104 wrote: »

Yo about +duck fades.

That isn't just a hold this button button. Try using it in your combat bdrop and you'll throw shots. It gives marines a perspective of you going to one height but then actually going to another.

Also the look down mechanic, unless the point of calling it a bug is that you think speed should be capped around 17-18 instead of 20-22, I'd consider skill based simply because it's not as easy to do in combat for escapes or jukes.

Exploiting systems to their full potential isn't "exploiting" in my opinion. None of the above are ridiculous, yaknow

edit: Just saw Ironhorses post about the lookdown lol

elodea

Kamamura wrote: »

The fade should always move in a way that provides the smallest target. A button "press me constantly to be smaller" is silly. IronHorse understands it, and that's important.

This is a common misconception that I tried to address in the video although i think i brushed over it too quickly

Holding crouch does not permanently change your model size or hit box size in the air. It only changes your collision box.

*

zeep wrote: »

Big help.
"Swipe Tap Blink Up" ?!? What is going on there? What are you doing? And what is swipe?
here

Not sure if serious or not .. Swipe is left mouse button attack. 'Swipe tap blink up' is basically: swipe, then quickly tap blink in the upwards direction.

You do this commonly to get in more swipes on a marine without taking too much damage (harder for marine to track you when you are above him). I am just showing that you should always tap blink in order to better avoid running out of energy (2nd cause of fade deaths).