Yeah tram messes with my ability to navigate, I'm fine until I have to use one of the smaller corridors that link the central tramway to some of the side rooms such as ore or the bit that comes out next to logistics. Plus I still think that vent into mezz which moved god knows how many patches ago is in its original spot.
FlaterectomyNetherlandistanJoin Date: 2005-02-03Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
I have no issues at all with Tram, and found it pretty easy to learn. I have difficulty comprehending how north tunnels and south tunnels can be confused for one another - to get there you have to come from somewhere else, which means you know in which of the two you are, no?
I suppose people have different senses of orientation; same with navigating in the real world. I know a guy who has to take specific routes to his friends' houses in the city where he's lived for 20 years, and if he takes a wrong turn he has to go home and start over.
However, I'll try and keep in mind the fact that samey corridors/rooms can confuse people for ns2_caged, even if I find it puzzling.
But like @amoral and @BentRing, I often bolt through the wrong exit in Subsector on Veil.
All right, we're talking about a different thing here. I was talking about remembering the layouts by heart and how difficult it is to learn them, as in if somebody asked you to draw a map of a certain map without launching the game, how well you could draw that. And NS2 maps are much simpler in those aspects, with almost all of them conforming to the shape of a doughnut ring with something in the middle, with small variations. You're talking about orienting yourself quickly while actually inside the room, i.e. having textures, geometry and props intuitively telling you which way is right. Can't say I've ever had a problem with that, except maybe for power silo in Nothing.
I'll have to disagree with you strongly. Even travel times in NS1 were much bigger than in NS2. I just went back to see them just to make sure my memory wasn't playing tricks on me, but it's true. I took two 'normal' examples from both games and one 'unusual' and large example. These were the results.
NS1
Tanith - 2.07
Eclipse - 1.55
Nothing - 2.38
NS2
Summit - 1.43
Tram - 1.44
Mineshaft - 2.00
These were down by walking with a marine pressing nothing but W, no bunnyhopping or sprinting involved. Tanith might have been a bad example due to the satellite hive spot which involves quite a bit of backtracking, but anyway. Combine this with the fact that most, if not all NS2 maps have much more linear shortcuts, i.e. through hub in Tram and through crossroads in Summit, than the more complex geometry of NS1 maps create. If you'd measure the time it takes in these maps to cross the map to the opposite hive location/tech point through the fastest route possible, the NS2 maps would beat the NS1 ones even more clearly.
I'm also amazed at how many people found Tram difficult to learn. It was the easiest map to learn for me, apart from Summit. Tech points in a neat ring somewhat equally apart from eachother, with one room with a resource node in between and a big central hub in the middle that connects them all. Doesn't get much simpler than that.
@Therius You are correct and I shouldn't have outright disagreed since you simply said they were bigger rather than the exaggerated 'huge NS1 and tiny NS2' talk that gives the impression that NS2 maps are half the size or something. I did that same test back in the beginning of February and my results can be found here http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/127890/on-the-discussion-of-these-tiny-ns2-maps
As with you, I feel that "My feelings are that a big problem of the feeling is the hub centric nature of the newer maps rather than a more randomized design. And the older maps in general seemed to prefer narrow corridors while many newer maps seem like they just connect the large rooms with longer, narrower rooms rather than halls."
I have no issues at all with Tram, and found it pretty easy to learn. I have difficulty comprehending how north tunnels and south tunnels can be confused for one another - to get there you have to come from somewhere else, which means you know in which of the two you are, no?
I suppose people have different senses of orientation; same with navigating in the real world. I know a guy who has to take specific routes to his friends' houses in the city where he's lived for 20 years, and if he takes a wrong turn he has to go home and start over.
However, I'll try and keep in mind the fact that samey corridors/rooms can confuse people for ns2_caged, even if I find it puzzling.
But like @amoral and @BentRing, I often bolt through the wrong exit in Subsector on Veil.
it's never going through the wrong exit for me, more of a case of, "where the f is that door? coulda sworn that door.was closer"
It's Super Effective!Join Date: 2012-08-28Member: 156625Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
I'm a long time player, and I know the maps (official anyways) off by heart. I can't speak for the OP's ability to memorize all the maps because that ability is as unique as the player themselves.
Having said that, it is still very important to check the map, not because of how to get around, but to see the strategy and movement of players. Wouldn't you want to know that a lerk was getting chased into your room for you to pick up an ambush kill? or if enemies were approaching a base and you could phase there in time to defend and buy time?
This game isn't your usual "team deathmatch, kill targets that happen to waltz in front of me, get as many points until I win game".
Comments
99.9% of servers block that particular mod. It's in the default consistency check.
I suppose people have different senses of orientation; same with navigating in the real world. I know a guy who has to take specific routes to his friends' houses in the city where he's lived for 20 years, and if he takes a wrong turn he has to go home and start over.
However, I'll try and keep in mind the fact that samey corridors/rooms can confuse people for ns2_caged, even if I find it puzzling.
But like @amoral and @BentRing, I often bolt through the wrong exit in Subsector on Veil.
All right, we're talking about a different thing here. I was talking about remembering the layouts by heart and how difficult it is to learn them, as in if somebody asked you to draw a map of a certain map without launching the game, how well you could draw that. And NS2 maps are much simpler in those aspects, with almost all of them conforming to the shape of a doughnut ring with something in the middle, with small variations. You're talking about orienting yourself quickly while actually inside the room, i.e. having textures, geometry and props intuitively telling you which way is right. Can't say I've ever had a problem with that, except maybe for power silo in Nothing.
@BentRing
I'll have to disagree with you strongly. Even travel times in NS1 were much bigger than in NS2. I just went back to see them just to make sure my memory wasn't playing tricks on me, but it's true. I took two 'normal' examples from both games and one 'unusual' and large example. These were the results.
NS1
Tanith - 2.07
Eclipse - 1.55
Nothing - 2.38
NS2
Summit - 1.43
Tram - 1.44
Mineshaft - 2.00
These were down by walking with a marine pressing nothing but W, no bunnyhopping or sprinting involved. Tanith might have been a bad example due to the satellite hive spot which involves quite a bit of backtracking, but anyway. Combine this with the fact that most, if not all NS2 maps have much more linear shortcuts, i.e. through hub in Tram and through crossroads in Summit, than the more complex geometry of NS1 maps create. If you'd measure the time it takes in these maps to cross the map to the opposite hive location/tech point through the fastest route possible, the NS2 maps would beat the NS1 ones even more clearly.
I'm also amazed at how many people found Tram difficult to learn. It was the easiest map to learn for me, apart from Summit. Tech points in a neat ring somewhat equally apart from eachother, with one room with a resource node in between and a big central hub in the middle that connects them all. Doesn't get much simpler than that.
Well I use it on ALL servers without a problem so....
You lie. Check your console log, both http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=119369883 and http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=109836396&searchtext=blur are blocked on almost all servers (literally every server I've ever joined, never found one where it wasn't blocked).
As with you, I feel that "My feelings are that a big problem of the feeling is the hub centric nature of the newer maps rather than a more randomized design. And the older maps in general seemed to prefer narrow corridors while many newer maps seem like they just connect the large rooms with longer, narrower rooms rather than halls."
it's never going through the wrong exit for me, more of a case of, "where the f is that door? coulda sworn that door.was closer"
Having said that, it is still very important to check the map, not because of how to get around, but to see the strategy and movement of players. Wouldn't you want to know that a lerk was getting chased into your room for you to pick up an ambush kill? or if enemies were approaching a base and you could phase there in time to defend and buy time?
This game isn't your usual "team deathmatch, kill targets that happen to waltz in front of me, get as many points until I win game".
For your viewing pleasure, skip to 16m 16s