Terrible servers which let you join, load map, then kick you because "there are no slots"

124

Comments

  • RumseyRumsey Join Date: 2013-01-21 Member: 181012Members
    edited August 2013
    At this point, I've memorized the slots per server (most have 2 reserved slots), but I worry that it drives away new players.
  • Know painKnow pain Join Date: 2012-09-04 Member: 157674Members
    In times like this, if you don't like getting kicked donate or don't try and join a 23/24 player server.
  • RumseyRumsey Join Date: 2013-01-21 Member: 181012Members
    Or, alternatively, petition for a more appropriate reserve slot system to be used that doesn't break the server browser.

    I think I like my idea better.
  • Know painKnow pain Join Date: 2012-09-04 Member: 157674Members
    Or, host your own server. You can petition all you want but at the end of the day servers take money to run.

    Now there are servers out there you can play for free on but they don’t tend to be that well kept up and server administrators allow pretty much anything to happen. Bigger servers such as KKG have I believe 7 different servers all run well and have admins who will kick/ban players who hack/cheat/use racist words/ruin the fun for the rest of the gamers there. And most servers only cost something like $5 a month to get a reserved slot (fuck I spend something like $60 a week on whiskey sometimes).
  • Enhance89Enhance89 Join Date: 2009-11-04 Member: 69261Members
    edited August 2013
    Know pain wrote: »
    Or, host your own server. You can petition all you want but at the end of the day servers take money to run.

    Now there are servers out there you can play for free on but they don’t tend to be that well kept up and server administrators allow pretty much anything to happen. Bigger servers such as KKG have I believe 7 different servers all run well and have admins who will kick/ban players who hack/cheat/use racist words/ruin the fun for the rest of the gamers there. And most servers only cost something like $5 a month to get a reserved slot (fuck I spend something like $60 a week on whiskey sometimes).

    Right, but games really shouldn't be centered around people who want to pay for extra privileges. This game will be unappealing to new players if they're consistently being kicked/redirected to new servers or being treated poorly by the community. It's no secret that video game devs try and find a balance between two things - appeal to veterans/competitive play and appeal to newbies.

    NS2's current model possesses several aspects that turn new or casual gamers off. The server redirection, the knowledge that a lot of servers will kick/redirect unless you pay extra money, complaints about an immature/rude community and the game favoring competitive play more than pub matches. Although I played a ton of NS1 and think some of these issues are blown out of proportion, there's still some truth to them.

    As I mentioned above, video games have to appeal to the masses but also make the core vets happy. Right now, it feels like there's an inappropriate lean towards those outside the casual gaming realm, and I think that's a surefire way to hurt your profits and game.
  • RumseyRumsey Join Date: 2013-01-21 Member: 181012Members
    More to the point, if you drive away new players, public servers will dry up, which is bad for everyone.
  • Know painKnow pain Join Date: 2012-09-04 Member: 157674Members
    @Enhance89

    This game is not centered around players paying a little more for extra privileges, it’s centered around players. If someone wants to play for free there’s something like 50-80 servers out there hosted by UWE and they are free to play on but players just aren’t there. They are on the servers hosted and run by people and groups apart from UWE and that’s where people can be found playing.

    Why?

    1. Larger servers.
    2. Modded servers.
    3. Admins and clan members who will enforce rules and regulations.
    4. Better connections and better servers, servers that can take a little bit more.
    5. A player base who likes that server, the players who play there and what is done there and keeps on coming back.
  • Enhance89Enhance89 Join Date: 2009-11-04 Member: 69261Members
    edited August 2013
    No, NS2 isn't centered around that. But, the current model is certainly frustrating. I'm not blaming server owners for their reaction to the problem, because I think this has way more to do with UWE than it does servers like KKG. But, when everybody is playing on certain servers because they're better servers, and those servers have reserved slots or constant redirects, that's detrimental to your player base. And as I mentioned, it's not appealing to the casual gamer, which is a huge piece to making a game successful.

    I know firsthand these reserved servers a problem. I recommended NS2 to a buddy of mine and he said he joined one server, got redirected twice and then didn't even end up playing the day he bought it. He had to sit through three loading screens, and when he got to the third server, there was one person on it. Even now trying to get him to play with me is like pulling teeth because he had a bad first experience.

    Again, I'm not blaming the reserved slot servers for their practices, but I don't think this is something that can continue. A gamer should be able to turn NS2 on and find a game within a few seconds, because that's how every other successful multiplayer game is. They shouldn't have to be redirected a couple of times or manipulated into thinking they should pay extra money just to have a spot on a server.
  • Know painKnow pain Join Date: 2012-09-04 Member: 157674Members
    @Enhance89

    But it will continue, many of these multi-server clans came over from NS1 and the reserved slots were happening for years. The only thing that will keep players playing this game are servers like this. Clans like this will create communities and that will keep the player base not UWE trying to make the game look cool.

    Now as far as you comment of “because that's how every other successful multiplayer game is.” Have you ever heard of Ever Quest and WOW?
  • Enhance89Enhance89 Join Date: 2009-11-04 Member: 69261Members
    edited August 2013
    WoW and Everquest are mmorpg's, not FPS. I didn't think I needed to specify, but I was referring to other FPS games NS2 is competing against for players (like TF2, CS, DoD, etc.).

    These NS2 servers keep "players playing", in the exact same way G4B2S kept "players playing" in NS.

    Problem is, those ended up being some of the last players playing. I'm not blaming NS's failures on reserved server slots. What's going on NS2 is not even comparable to what it was like NS. That said, I rarely ran into these reserved server issues or redirections on NS and I logged several hundred hours there.

    I truly do see the value and understand servers like KKG, I just think other servers need to step up to the plate and make the game more accessible overall, rather than having players compete for slots on a few select servers just because those servers have good pings and actual players.
  • ColtColtColtColt Join Date: 2012-06-27 Member: 153707Members
    Enhance89 wrote: »
    I truly do see the value and understand servers like KKG, I just think other servers need to step up to the plate and make the game more accessible overall, rather than having players compete for slots on a few select servers just because those servers have good pings and actual players.

    I think this is much more to the point of what your actual problem is; the small playerbase of NS2.

    If the playerbase was larger, there would be no concern over the server policies of a specific community of servers.

    As it stands, you can critique communities like KKG only because they're the only communities with a solid, steady stream of full games and decently performing hardware. It's easy to point fingers, but the issues you have with KKG/other servers with reserved slots are just a symptom of the actual objection you hold towards the game: A small player base.

    If KKG/etc's policy's were actually 'bad', and 'discouraged public play', they wouldn't be the only servers that are full 24/7 and actually have decent matches that run reasonably balanced all day all night every day. The evidence is that in fact that the opposite is true; that the policies and general administration of the community are good, because percentage-wise, a large percentile of the people playing the game are participating in said community.


    I'm neither saying the reserved slots are good or bad; merely that you're misplacing your aggression about the policy. Your issue isn't actually with KKG, or any other community, or their reserved slots... it's the general, slow decent of NS2's public playerbase.

    In fact, you should be supporting communities that host servers and make big efforts (And spend alot of money) to keep active games going. If they opt to recover some cost by redirecting and managing population flow on their own hardware, that's entirely their business. After all, are you the one shelling out hundreds and hundreds of dollars a month to provide somewhere for other people to play a video game? Nope.
  • RumseyRumsey Join Date: 2013-01-21 Member: 181012Members
    The reason servers like KKG have good support is because they can afford to do it. They can afford to do it, at least in part, because they get financial support from their users. They get support from their users by, among other things, selling reserve slots.

    ...except that NS2 has terrible support for reserve slots.

    Hence the problem. Hence we have servers like KKG which, while good, while populated, are annoying to join, particularly for new players. Thus the need for a fix. Thus the reason for this thread.

    I don't know how much more simple I can make it: the current implementation of reserve slots sucks ass. The problem is not that reserve slots exists, or that there are servers which sell them. It's the implementation. It's a programming/design issue. It can and should be fixed with a programming/design solution.
  • KingKahunaKingKahuna Join Date: 2008-03-23 Member: 63944Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I have a solution for you. Go join another one. ;) FYI - While I appreciate the subscribers support, my servers have been paid for in full for a long time now. I do quite will as a Financial Advisor, and do not run game servers for the reasons you have mentioned. I would recommend you speak about things you are completely informed about, as it will prevent you from looking foolish in front of your peers, and "friends".

    As Flayra, and the NS team are aware; I have been running game servers for a very long time. As for the "fix" you mentioned, I appreciate your suggestions; and would recommend you starting your own server group and get back to us and see how well it works out for you.

    I'll end my comments in this thread here.

    Have a nice day,

    KingKahuna
  • JektJekt Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited August 2013
    I don't understand how you could disagree that the current reserve slot system is horrid. Do you like it that frustrating players on your servers with redirects and instant and mid game kicks because the server is "full" encourages them to buy in? That's understandable.

    For that purpose, the system is actually perfect. This makes a lot more sense now.
  • RumseyRumsey Join Date: 2013-01-21 Member: 181012Members
    edited August 2013
    KingKahuna wrote: »
    I have a solution for you. Go join another one. ;) FYI - While I appreciate the subscribers support, my servers have been paid for in full for a long time now. I do quite will as a Financial Advisor, and do not run game servers for the reasons you have mentioned. I would recommend you speak about things you are completely informed about, as it will prevent you from looking foolish in front of your peers, and "friends".

    As Flayra, and the NS team are aware; I have been running game servers for a very long time. As for the "fix" you mentioned, I appreciate your suggestions; and would recommend you starting your own server group and get back to us and see how well it works out for you.

    I'll end my comments in this thread here.

    Have a nice day,

    KingKahuna

    You don't seem to be concerned about how poor the experience is for new players to this game. I understand that the current situation is probably fine for you, but I care more about the population of this game, and where it will be a year from now. Driving away new players due to a poor server browser implementation is bad for this game, period. Telling me to run my own server doesn't really change matters.

    The current browsing experience is lousy, plain and simple. You haven't even attempted to refute that point.
  • ritualsacrificeritualsacrifice Join Date: 2012-11-14 Member: 171148Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited August 2013
    Jekt wrote: »
    I don't understand how you could disagree that the current reserve slot system is horrid. Do you like it that frustrating players on your servers with redirects and instant and mid game kicks because the server is "full" encourages them to buy in? That's understandable.

    Just do a google search for king kahuna... there's stuff going back as far as 2003 talking about the way he manages servers.
  • Mattk50Mattk50 Join Date: 2013-02-04 Member: 182824Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Know pain wrote: »
    @Enhance89

    But it will continue, many of these multi-server clans came over from NS1 and the reserved slots were happening for years. The only thing that will keep players playing this game are servers like this. Clans like this will create communities and that will keep the player base not UWE trying to make the game look cool.

    Now as far as you comment of “because that's how every other successful multiplayer game is.” Have you ever heard of Ever Quest and WOW?

    LOL oh yeah the arsemunches who are universally despised on the server browser will save ns2. What a joke.
  • Enhance89Enhance89 Join Date: 2009-11-04 Member: 69261Members
    ColtColt wrote: »
    I think this is much more to the point of what your actual problem is; the small playerbase of NS2.

    You're absolutely correct. The small player base is blowing this issue way out of proportion. This issue is an extension of the game.

    Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of servers with either no players, bad pings or reserved slots that cause redirects. I know this is blowing smoke in the wind, so I'm done talking about it. There really isn't a fix unless the game gets more players, then finding a server won't be as challenging.

    But, what if it doesn't? What if the player base stays around this core of a few thousand, or less? In that model, the current server system is inefficient.

    I appreciate IronHorse's post, though. Is there a link or more information at this time?
  • Know painKnow pain Join Date: 2012-09-04 Member: 157674Members
    @Enhance89
    Clans such as G4B2S, BAD, 187, Brwar I have been a member of. They all had reserved slots, they all had systems where if you joined a full server or if you were in a full server and low man on the totem pole you got kicked for a reserved slot. If you have such a problem with this post it on their forums and see how quickly the topic get closed. You and Rumsey are complaining about other clans on NS2 forums for which UWE has “NO” control over.

    @Rumsey
    It seems more like you simply want to play on a well populated, well maintained server for free. Now as for your comments on how clan servers get their revenue from their supporters that’s not true. As with all clan servers they start out by using money of their own pockets and one day hope players can equal the amount of money they are spending to keep their servers running.

    Now as I have stated beforehand there are servers out there you can play for free on and there are other servers you can play for free on but you "might" be kicked or redirected due to a reserved slot. And as for Rumsey I am aware of where you are coming from, you don’t care about new players you started this thread from a personal bias, towards one of the clans.
  • RumseyRumsey Join Date: 2013-01-21 Member: 181012Members
    edited August 2013
    Know pain wrote: »
    @Rumsey
    It seems more like you simply want to play on a well populated, well maintained server for free. Now as for your comments on how clan servers get their revenue from their supporters that’s not true. As with all clan servers they start out by using money of their own pockets and one day hope players can equal the amount of money they are spending to keep their servers running.

    Now as I have stated beforehand there are servers out there you can play for free on and there are other servers you can play for free on but you "might" be kicked or redirected due to a reserved slot. And as for Rumsey I am aware of where you are coming from, you don’t care about new players you started this thread from a personal bias, towards one of the clans.

    This has nothing to do with paid reserve slots existing and everything to do with a poor implementation. You've failed to make a meaningful argument in favor of the current, broken system. The fact that UWE is fixing it in an upcoming patch (per IronHorse's posts) means they feel the current system is inadequate as well. At this point, there's really nothing to debate. It's being resolved.

    I also encourage you to learn what the phrase "in part" means.
  • Enhance89Enhance89 Join Date: 2009-11-04 Member: 69261Members
    Know pain wrote: »
    @Enhance89
    Clans such as G4B2S, BAD, 187, Brwar I have been a member of. They all had reserved slots, they all had systems where if you joined a full server or if you were in a full server and low man on the totem pole you got kicked for a reserved slot. If you have such a problem with this post it on their forums and see how quickly the topic get closed. You and Rumsey are complaining about other clans on NS2 forums for which UWE has “NO” control over.
    I don't know if you're deliberately or unintentionally ignoring what I said. I'm not blaming any of the reserved slot servers for their practices. When I played CS 1.3 competitively, we had a reserved slot system on our clan server. I said above, and I quote, "I truly do see the value" of servers like KKG.

    Furthermore, I just admitted in a post above that my larger problem is the size of the player base and lack of quality servers overall, something I am not blaming the reserved slot servers for. That's also why I'm just going to have to wait and see how things develop. If the player base doesn't get any bigger, I don't think the current server system is functional for those that do play because of the reasons I listed above.

    And as Rumsey pointed out, UWE is working on an official reserved slot server system, so obviously they feel the need to address server issues. It's not a moot argument.
  • current1ycurrent1y Join Date: 2003-12-08 Member: 24150Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    edited August 2013
    ColtColt wrote: »
    Enhance89 wrote: »
    I truly do see the value and understand servers like KKG, I just think other servers need to step up to the plate and make the game more accessible overall, rather than having players compete for slots on a few select servers just because those servers have good pings and actual players.

    I think this is much more to the point of what your actual problem is; the small playerbase of NS2.

    If the playerbase was larger, there would be no concern over the server policies of a specific community of servers.

    As it stands, you can critique communities like KKG only because they're the only communities with a solid, steady stream of full games and decently performing hardware. It's easy to point fingers, but the issues you have with KKG/other servers with reserved slots are just a symptom of the actual objection you hold towards the game: A small player base.

    If KKG/etc's policy's were actually 'bad', and 'discouraged public play', they wouldn't be the only servers that are full 24/7 and actually have decent matches that run reasonably balanced all day all night every day. The evidence is that in fact that the opposite is true; that the policies and general administration of the community are good, because percentage-wise, a large percentile of the people playing the game are participating in said community.


    I'm neither saying the reserved slots are good or bad; merely that you're misplacing your aggression about the policy. Your issue isn't actually with KKG, or any other community, or their reserved slots... it's the general, slow decent of NS2's public playerbase.

    In fact, you should be supporting communities that host servers and make big efforts (And spend alot of money) to keep active games going. If they opt to recover some cost by redirecting and managing population flow on their own hardware, that's entirely their business. After all, are you the one shelling out hundreds and hundreds of dollars a month to provide somewhere for other people to play a video game? Nope.

    It is in fact hard to argue with the fact the servers are fuller now then before but I wonder who is filling those servers up? Is it the crowed that you build a community around or the crowed that plays ns2 for 3 weeks and then goes some where else. I've actually gotten into the server I was attempting to join twice now and both times the server was full of very new people and overall skill base was lower then it had been in the past. Could it have been a fluke? No doubt since it was only 2 games but made me question who I'll be playing the times I do randomly join. Not really worth having to deal with the system to just farm newbies if it happens to be the case.

    I'll just continue to take KK's advice and avoid the servers for now, not that i really ever played there before did on rare occasion. Hopefully it gets easier to join in the future.


    EDIT: The above post me banned from KKG servers.
  • dePARAdePARA Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited August 2013
    Its interisting that only the US-players have this problem. Are there EU servers out there with reserved slots kicking or redirect players?
    Cant remember one.
    And we the EU admins (me included) have to pay for our servers aswell.

    Maybe the bigger is better (more full servers=super awesome) mentality is a US phenomen only, who knows.

    Imagine a full 18 slot server full of players payed for there slot. So far so good.
    What happen if another players wants to join who payed also?

    Btw. reserved slots are for admins, so they can join the server if people reporting issues.
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WI Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    @KingKahuna

    I never said anything about your servers not being popular. I just stated one of the reasons I stopped donating. Nothing personal. Just my opinion.
  • GhoulofGSG9GhoulofGSG9 Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts
    edited August 2013
    @KingKahuna:

    Could you use the third reserved slot method and post the password somewhere so all donators see it? Thanks alot.
  • baconbitsbaconbits Join Date: 2013-01-17 Member: 180124Members
    I don't see how anyone can even argue for the current reserve system. There are NUMEROUS games out there with reserved slots that implement it in a much more appropriate way. There is no GOOD reason for giving new players a bad impression or vets the "go around". If an admin needs to get into the server he will, next excuse please.
  • Know painKnow pain Join Date: 2012-09-04 Member: 157674Members
    I’ll put my last 2 cents on this topic here:

    If you have a problem with the way a server is run then take it up with that owner and stop bitching and moaning here because there is nothing UWE can do or will do about it.
  • RumseyRumsey Join Date: 2013-01-21 Member: 181012Members
    Know pain wrote: »
    I’ll put my last 2 cents on this topic here:

    If you have a problem with the way a server is run then take it up with that owner and stop bitching and moaning here because there is nothing UWE can do or will do about it.

    Actually, there is. For example, they can allow servers to report a number of open slots minus reserve slots, so that it can be filtered properly in the server browser. Or any number of other things.
  • GhoulofGSG9GhoulofGSG9 Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts
    edited August 2013
    Easiest way would be to add a event before all the stuff is loading so mods are able to load code before "loading". Indeed the only problem i see is that there is no way for ppl to see if a server has reserved slots when admin is using the redirect method.

    And if the admin wants to enter a server he can use the web interface xD
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