Rookie ONLY servers.

BestProfileNameBestProfileName Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177320Members
You should make servers in which ONLY rookies can join. Increase the rookie time limit to 100 hours. Only admins with over 100 hours can be there, or even better, make them the UWE servers.

The benefit is that newcomers have some time to acclimatise to the game.

The immediate counter is this: but where do people with more than 100 hours go? Well, they can no longer join non-rookie servers. And let's face it, most people on rookie servers have too many hours anyway. It forces the rookies to clump together until good enough and the good players to clump together. There is almost always enough of either group playing, but the problem is that the good players diffuse out into rookie servers. Collect them all up and you easily can fill two servers (minimum).

This is how you improve the learning curve.


One more possible counter is that the rookies will never learn. They will. As someone pointed out, the best way for people to learn is against other children (not 10 yo footballers against 30 year olds), and they grow together with the aid of one adult. There is always going to be someone naturally able on a server who can lead the group. They can ALWAYS join a non-rookie server if they really want anyway.
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Comments

  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation
    I once spectated a game back when this game came out and all marines were green. It was like watching evolution in real time. They had no idea wtf was going on but clearly that the most important structure was armories which were placed in every room.
  • salvadorjersalvadorjer Join Date: 2012-10-22 Member: 163138Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    The thing is many players would connect based on other factors such as ping, server pop, active friends in server etc. So there isn't much of a guarantee this will help. We do need vet players to be calm and help out new players though. Such as coaching them when they are commanding for the first few times.
  • ezekelezekel Join Date: 2012-11-29 Member: 173589Members, NS2 Map Tester
    The thing is many players would connect based on other factors such as ping, server pop, active friends in server etc. So there isn't much of a guarantee this will help. We do need vet players to be calm and help out new players though. Such as coaching them when they are commanding for the first few times.

    It's extremely frustrating to teach some players though, as they refuse to "accept" help, you can give them tips or pointers and they will continue doing what they want, which then leads to the entire team f4ing, them being ejected and leaving, or just everyone leaving all together

    Personally me, when I first started all I had was my aiming skills (from counterstrike and the such) so I already started off good, but before I continued I quickly went to youtube and did a few things

    1) watched alien movement videos
    2) watched a competitive match being played, but only focusing on what the commander was doing
    3) marine was nothing I had to learn, besides commanding aspect; while I played ns1 AGES ago I mostly forget everything which is a surprise so the few minutes I spent on youtube basically made me go from knowing nothing to immediately a competitively viable player

    From there I understood everything and just further improved over time, I feel like many people don't even bother to do these things which is part of the new generation gamers
  • mushookeesmushookees Join Date: 2008-03-26 Member: 63967Members
    When i first played NS1 there were no vets to learn from

    The best way to learn is by trial and error, you learn from your mistakes. Ever wonder why kids never listen to good advice from adults ? yet when they get a shock from sticking scissors into the electrical outlet, they never do it again.
  • BestProfileNameBestProfileName Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177320Members
    edited May 2013
    The thing is many players would connect based on other factors such as ping, server pop, active friends in server etc. So there isn't much of a guarantee this will help. We do need vet players to be calm and help out new players though. Such as coaching them when they are commanding for the first few times.

    This is the only valid counter I have seen thus far.


    But okay. We don't want change? Let's pi ss the playerbase away until it's 500.

    If average is a few hundred people then by definition many servers get filled and most pings are accounted for, by the way
  • JAMESEARLJONOSJAMESEARLJONOS Join Date: 2012-12-15 Member: 175155Members
    edited May 2013
    *Snip* Do not post instructions on how to troll or exploit in NS2?? ..Duh - Ironhorse

  • BestProfileNameBestProfileName Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177320Members
    edited May 2013
    *Snip* Do not post instructions on how to troll or exploit in NS2?? ..Duh - Ironhorse

    And how many people would do that? Less than 1% I'd wager. Dumb counter.

  • JAMESEARLJONOSJAMESEARLJONOS Join Date: 2012-12-15 Member: 175155Members
    edited May 2013
    *Snip* Do not post instructions on how to troll in NS2?? ..Duh - Ironhorse

    And how many people would do that? Less than 1% I'd wager. Dumb counter.

    If you suddenly decided to make rookie mode an actual barrier, I'm pretty sure most people would do it. Because you'd have people like me actively telling people on the forums how to get around such a ridiculously stupid system.

    Good luck.
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WI Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    Why would you want to play with fresh-to-ns2 players? Kinda says a little bit about your character.
  • BestProfileNameBestProfileName Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177320Members
    edited May 2013
    *Snip* Do not post instructions on how to troll in NS2?? ..Duh - Ironhorse

    And how many people would do that? Less than 1% I'd wager. Dumb counter.

    If you suddenly decided to make rookie mode an actual barrier, I'm pretty sure most people would do it. Because you'd have people like me actively telling people on the forums how to get around such a ridiculously stupid system.

    Good luck.

    I wouldn't do it. Why do you want to play on rookie servers? There are many non-rookie servers, of which I'd say around 70% of the time they have over 10 players. If not, it's because people with 200 hours + are playing on the rookie servers after seeing them as populated. If you had the barrier they'd be on non-rookies and that whole problem is circumvented.

    So why is it a "dumb system"?

  • ritualsacrificeritualsacrifice Join Date: 2012-11-14 Member: 171148Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Also, I'm not entirely convinced that rookies will learn anything from playing with other rookies. If you go into the average rookie server, all the marines will go the same direction at the start of the game, and the aliens will get celerity first nearly every single time, to the point where they will rage quit if you're commanding and do something that's actually smart like buy carapace. The game has been out for ~7 months now and people are still doing that, which makes me believe that they simply don't learn from eachother.
  • BestProfileNameBestProfileName Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177320Members
    Also, I'm not entirely convinced that rookies will learn anything from playing with other rookies. If you go into the average rookie server, all the marines will go the same direction at the start of the game, and the aliens will get celerity first nearly every single time, to the point where they will rage quit if you're commanding and do something that's actually smart like buy carapace. The game has been out for ~7 months now and people are still doing that, which makes me believe that they simply don't learn from eachother.

    ??????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    You're talking about rookies with fewer than four hours in the game. What else would they be doing?

    You know that rookie you saw in January? Well he's not the same person as the rookie you see in May, so when you say, "they're still doing the same thing!" that is about as logical as saying, "I've seen babies putting their hands in the fire and they're still doing it after 40 years!!!". No...That specific baby/rookie has changed by then.
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WI Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    I think the whole idea of rookie servers is for new players to get a feel for the game... not really learn strategy. They learn things like buying items from armories, how to build structures, what each structure does, and vice-versa for the alien side. Its more to give them a feel for the game since not many new players go on youtube and watch comp matches and tutorials. Many of these players just want to experience ns2 without getting steamrolled.

    I personally feel that the best thing to do would to have like 2-3 rookie only UWE servers in each region. Limit: 20 hrs gametime. It would be a good stepping stone.

    Just my 2 cents.
  • CrazyEddieCrazyEddie Join Date: 2013-01-08 Member: 178196Members
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    Because you'd have people like me actively telling people on the forums how to get around such a ridiculously stupid system.

    Good luck.
    Yes, and if you continue to post instructions on how to best troll and exploit in NS2, you will not be posting for much longer.
  • JAMESEARLJONOSJAMESEARLJONOS Join Date: 2012-12-15 Member: 175155Members
    edited May 2013
    IronHorse wrote: »
    Because you'd have people like me actively telling people on the forums how to get around such a ridiculously stupid system.

    Good luck.
    Yes, and if you continue to post instructions on how to best troll and exploit in NS2, you will not be posting for much longer.

    Last warning. -Ironhorse

  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    Also, I'm not entirely convinced that rookies will learn anything from playing with other rookies. If you go into the average rookie server, all the marines will go the same direction at the start of the game, and the aliens will get celerity first nearly every single time, to the point where they will rage quit if you're commanding and do something that's actually smart like buy carapace. The game has been out for ~7 months now and people are still doing that, which makes me believe that they simply don't learn from eachother.
    "I've seen babies putting their hands in the fire and they're still doing it after 40 years!!!"
    The real question here would be, why is there a fire near those babies :P
  • BestProfileNameBestProfileName Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177320Members
    joshhh wrote: »
    I think the whole idea of rookie servers is for new players to get a feel for the game... not really learn strategy. They learn things like buying items from armories, how to build structures, what each structure does, and vice-versa for the alien side. Its more to give them a feel for the game since not many new players go on youtube and watch comp matches and tutorials. Many of these players just want to experience ns2 without getting steamrolled.

    I personally feel that the best thing to do would to have like 2-3 rookie only UWE servers in each region. Limit: 20 hrs gametime. It would be a good stepping stone.

    Just my 2 cents.

    I like that idea.
  • mushookeesmushookees Join Date: 2008-03-26 Member: 63967Members
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Also, I'm not entirely convinced that rookies will learn anything from playing with other rookies. If you go into the average rookie server, all the marines will go the same direction at the start of the game, and the aliens will get celerity first nearly every single time, to the point where they will rage quit if you're commanding and do something that's actually smart like buy carapace. The game has been out for ~7 months now and people are still doing that, which makes me believe that they simply don't learn from eachother.
    "I've seen babies putting their hands in the fire and they're still doing it after 40 years!!!"
    The real question here would be, why is there a fire near those babies :P

    I lol'ed, best analogy ive seen in a while :D
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Also, I'm not entirely convinced that rookies will learn anything from playing with other rookies. If you go into the average rookie server, all the marines will go the same direction at the start of the game, and the aliens will get celerity first nearly every single time, to the point where they will rage quit if you're commanding and do something that's actually smart like buy carapace. The game has been out for ~7 months now and people are still doing that, which makes me believe that they simply don't learn from eachother.

    I am so sick of every pub player telling me that celerity/shift is the best upgrade for aliens and phase gates by 1 minute or YOU'RE OUT.
  • ritualsacrificeritualsacrifice Join Date: 2012-11-14 Member: 171148Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Also, I'm not entirely convinced that rookies will learn anything from playing with other rookies. If you go into the average rookie server, all the marines will go the same direction at the start of the game, and the aliens will get celerity first nearly every single time, to the point where they will rage quit if you're commanding and do something that's actually smart like buy carapace. The game has been out for ~7 months now and people are still doing that, which makes me believe that they simply don't learn from eachother.

    ??????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    You're talking about rookies with fewer than four hours in the game. What else would they be doing?

    You know that rookie you saw in January? Well he's not the same person as the rookie you see in May, so when you say, "they're still doing the same thing!" that is about as logical as saying, "I've seen babies putting their hands in the fire and they're still doing it after 40 years!!!". No...That specific baby/rookie has changed by then.

    I'm not talking about "Green" rookies, I'm talking about regulars on some rookie friendly servers I frequent. You forget that this game has an incredibly small community... more often than not i'll join a server and recognize at least half of the people that are playing there.

    I'm talking about groups of people who learned on rookie servers then stayed there.
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    Also, I'm not entirely convinced that rookies will learn anything from playing with other rookies. If you go into the average rookie server, all the marines will go the same direction at the start of the game, and the aliens will get celerity first nearly every single time, to the point where they will rage quit if you're commanding and do something that's actually smart like buy carapace. The game has been out for ~7 months now and people are still doing that, which makes me believe that they simply don't learn from eachother.

    I am so sick of every pub player telling me that celerity/shift is the best upgrade for aliens and phase gates by 1 minute or YOU'RE OUT.

    I refuse to com in pub games anymore because of this.

  • BestProfileNameBestProfileName Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177320Members
    Also, I'm not entirely convinced that rookies will learn anything from playing with other rookies. If you go into the average rookie server, all the marines will go the same direction at the start of the game, and the aliens will get celerity first nearly every single time, to the point where they will rage quit if you're commanding and do something that's actually smart like buy carapace. The game has been out for ~7 months now and people are still doing that, which makes me believe that they simply don't learn from eachother.

    ??????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    You're talking about rookies with fewer than four hours in the game. What else would they be doing?

    You know that rookie you saw in January? Well he's not the same person as the rookie you see in May, so when you say, "they're still doing the same thing!" that is about as logical as saying, "I've seen babies putting their hands in the fire and they're still doing it after 40 years!!!". No...That specific baby/rookie has changed by then.

    I'm not talking about "Green" rookies, I'm talking about regulars on some rookie friendly servers I frequent. You forget that this game has an incredibly small community... more often than not i'll join a server and recognize at least half of the people that are playing there.

    I'm talking about groups of people who learned on rookie servers then stayed there.
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    Also, I'm not entirely convinced that rookies will learn anything from playing with other rookies. If you go into the average rookie server, all the marines will go the same direction at the start of the game, and the aliens will get celerity first nearly every single time, to the point where they will rage quit if you're commanding and do something that's actually smart like buy carapace. The game has been out for ~7 months now and people are still doing that, which makes me believe that they simply don't learn from eachother.

    I am so sick of every pub player telling me that celerity/shift is the best upgrade for aliens and phase gates by 1 minute or YOU'RE OUT.

    I refuse to com in pub games anymore because of this.


    Well with this they won't be "staying there". ^^

    Rookie Only allows people to get the ropes of the game without being roflstomped until their eyes pop out. It's all about babysteps. You learn to walk before running. If everyone is running before you've learned how to walk more than two steps, you'll naturally feel overwhelmed and be having no fun.

    Most people play it and then feel like it's so imbalanced that they'd rather dabble with the thousands of other games that are out.

  • MestaritonttuMestaritonttu Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    Also, I'm not entirely convinced that rookies will learn anything from playing with other rookies. If you go into the average rookie server, all the marines will go the same direction at the start of the game, and the aliens will get celerity first nearly every single time, to the point where they will rage quit if you're commanding and do something that's actually smart like buy carapace. The game has been out for ~7 months now and people are still doing that, which makes me believe that they simply don't learn from eachother.

    I am so sick of every pub player telling me that celerity/shift is the best upgrade for aliens and phase gates by 1 minute or YOU'RE OUT.

    I love it lol. It's much fun to argue with them. Of course not if they're the "lalalala can't hear you" -type of people, but people who actually use logic to think.

    On-topic: While it would be a loss to not have vets on rookie servers to give advice, the people joining rookie servers just to "pwn noobs" might be an even bigger problem. I don't really know, since I don't play on rookie servers, but considering the every-now-and-then 50/5 scores you see on normal pubs, I'd wager there's even more on rookie servers.

    The server ping/location argument is rather flimsy, I mean... Where are the servers so bad a rookie server is your only choice?
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Yeah, sometimes I think it's fun, then I realise it's not when after 3 minutes they're still saying "Celerity makes you go faster lol".
  • ritualsacrificeritualsacrifice Join Date: 2012-11-14 Member: 171148Members, Reinforced - Shadow

    The server ping/location argument is rather flimsy, I mean... Where are the servers so bad a rookie server is your only choice?

    That's fairly often the case if you're playing from the west coast of north america during primetime.. it's either a 24-32 player clusterfuck or join a rookie server. Or play the faded, which is a fucking awesome mod. That usually has some people playing.
  • StoneburgStoneburg Join Date: 2002-11-11 Member: 8174Members
    Either you want to play against people with low skills so you can get a high score and have fun gibbing people, or you want to play with people who are fun, to get another gaming experience. I always look for the latter, but it makes sense to look for the former. I wouldn't want to play on a server where I was way below average, and some people prefer to play on servers where they are way above average. Either to get a good score or because they think the people there are fun to play with.
  • StoneburgStoneburg Join Date: 2002-11-11 Member: 8174Members
    Oh, awesome post BPN. I hadn't thoght about it like that but your idea makes total sense. I'm not sure what the best way to implement it is but the general idea is great.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    The server ping/location argument is rather flimsy, I mean... Where are the servers so bad a rookie server is your only choice?

    West coast USA
  • dragonmithdragonmith Join Date: 2013-02-04 Member: 182817Members, Reinforced - Diamond
    @Mestaritonttu In NZ, sometimes very few servers have people in them and I have to join a rookie only... I just use the pistol :P
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