Build 237 Semi-major Vote Kick Issue

Uncle_PeteyUncle_Petey Join Date: 2013-05-21 Member: 185314Members
This is Uncle Petey from Petey's Playhouse 16 man vanilla, and we have a slight problem with the newest build.

Simply put, you can votekick admins. This cannot happen. Even if an admin is an abusive piece of shit, it's his or her server - he shouldn't be able to be kicked off of it be anyone. We strive to not be dicks over at the playhouse, so it's doubtful that anyone would attempt a serious vote against us. However, this is still a problem that needs to be rectified.

We have had groups (yes, groups) of dedicated players join the server before and start badmouthing less-than-experienced players. This is highly frowned upon at the playhouse and I've had some backlash when warning abusive players about it. Giving them a votekick option against an admin is a terrible idea. Couple a few bad eggs with people who just vote "yes" anyway, and you've got a bad recipe right there.

Issue number two, minor, but still important. The server console says that a vote was started and at what time, but not who started it. While it is displayed in game, I may not be in game if I'm staring at the server console. I would love that bit of information to be included in console logs.

Last thing. Give us a means to disable these new vote features. We've set everything up to our liking using Shine Admin mod and there's currently no documentation that I can reasonably find to customize or disable the new vote options. I also really don't like players being given the option to kick others. Our server almost always has an active admin, if not all three of us at once, and we handle players accordingly. I don't need a guy getting kicked off because he's new and he didn't know to build power to 99% before constructing an RT.



  • SeeVeeSeeVee Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165206Members
    delete your server config and restart your server. in the newly generated server config file you will see the option to turn off kick voting.
  • Uncle_PeteyUncle_Petey Join Date: 2013-05-21 Member: 185314Members
    Will try, full server right now.
  • CrushaKCrushaK Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167195Members, NS2 Playtester
    Yeah, there are many issues with the vote system.

    It allows the same player to spam votes way too fast again, even after the vote failed.
    It also doesn't make much sense to be able to vote for a map change to a map you are currently playing on, right?
    It is way too intrusive in the screen space the vote takes up, with it's rather chunky colored rectangles.
    Not sure if it should count non-votes or not. If 3 players in a 16 player server vote for something and two vote against it, it will probably pass. Is there a setting for a minimum percentage or absolute amount of players that need to vote for an option for it to pass?
  • Uncle_PeteyUncle_Petey Join Date: 2013-05-21 Member: 185314Members
    edited May 2013
    Update. We brought the server down after a nasty 50 minute game - real fun. Server regenerated the same exact file previously, even with the added nonsense that we manually put in. That being said, there has to be a backup somewhere that I'm gonna go look for. If anyone knows where it is, that'd be great.

    Edit: Problem fixed. Apparently restarting it once doesn't generate an updated one - but twice does.
  • ImbalanxdImbalanxd Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
  • elodeaelodea Editlodea Join Date: 2009-06-20 Member: 67877Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited May 2013
    Another terribad idea that you wouldn't put past UWE to implement. Looks like they didn't even implement it well if you're able to vote kick admins.

    Vote kick doesn't actually solve any real problems. If a player really deserves a kick, he most likely also deserves a temp/perm ban (there are fringe cases where you would only kick but very rare, because the player can just rejoin), and a ban/timeout of any sort ideally requires actual, responsible server moderation by a neutral 3rd party. Auto timeouts and vote kicks is community server mod territory. Vote kick is so ineffective against hacking that it actually adds toxicity to the system. See Type 1 errors

    All you end up achieving with vote kick is
    1) Reinforcing bad group behaviour, trolling, and toxic group think.
    2) Punishing commander creativity (tyranny of the retards effect). aka "pleez kick comm, he didn't build 2 CC. He not give us upgrade even though we can't hold res, he bad, troll, kick!".
    3) Increasing new player fear of commanding
    4) Increasing risk of social exclusion

    The majority is not always right, and when it comes to player kicking the issue needs to be dealt with more sensitively. To take on the risk of alienating players permanently (no matter how small a number), via perceived wrongful group judgement without any proper feedback or appeal is just silly. Especially when you have close to zero benefit on the other side of the equation. This really calls into question how serious UWE is about building and maintaining their already dwindling player base.

    The hole brought up by the OP just highlights how little thought was put into this.

    Recommend whoever in UWE came up with vote kick (and assumably auto team balance because its so horribly implemented as well) to watch the following. Relevant part is around 12 minutes
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    You raise a very good point, @uncle_petey, and I agree.
    Also agree with it being too opaque and large in size.
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