Possible idea to help resolve "pubstomping"
simba
Join Date: 2012-05-06 Member: 151628Members
Join Date: 2012-05-06 Member: 151628Members
Many suggestions I have seen are very detrimental and harsh to either a new player or a veteran player. I am a strong believer that any solution to this should not involve banning players from servers because they're too good or too bad. The game should not have any setbacks on launching the game and just joining a server to play. Many people assume veterans get on a pub server and maliciously kill everyone of lesser skill than they for the "lulz" and purposefully try to empty a server.
My suggestion requires both work from UWE and work from server managers. The first part is UWE needs to come up with a "ranking" system that does some algorithmic math to determine as accurately as possible, a players "skill" relative to other players. If UWE wants these ranking to be publicly visible, that's fine. It can also remain hidden from players to not be a distraction. Every server would need an update to display in some way, the average of the player skill on a given server in the server browser. If we're trying to hide the "ranking" from the players, merely an indicator of "this server has players that are ranked much higher than you" or "this server has players that are on near your ranking" or "this server has players that are slightly lower ranked than you" would suffice.
This gives players the ability to see on the server browser what they're getting into when joining a server. So if they're new, they'll know there's a good chance they'll get dominated or that the server has many other newbies like them. This would also allow server owners to optionally limit players that are too low or too high in relative skill from joining. The hardest part of this is coming up with a good "ranking" algorithm. I did a quick google search on the topic and there comes a few examples and ideas on how to create a relative ranking system and I don't imagine it's out of UWE's reach to implement.
This solution in my opinion lets the new or veteran player join servers that are more enjoyable for them. If server admins want to limit players, it's always relative, so if you're not allowed to join a server one night, the next day the relative skill might have changed and you'll be allowed. It will still allow new players to join veteran servers (if they want a challenge and that server allows it). It also allows veterans to pub stomp if they really want to (if the server allows it). It allows players to have an idea ahead of time what they're getting into. A lot of the time a veteran player doesn't join a server knowing they're going to be 100x better than everyone else and pub stomp and it happens on accident. Same applies to a new player. This just gives more information to a player to make a better informed decision. It also gives server operators a tool to better tailor the server environment that they wish.
Comments
With more numbers the skill would be easier to seperate, with the low players that we have, the difference in skill shown in the servers in YOUR area (100 ping or less) probably won't vary much.
It could be added sure, and might occasionally work out, but I'm not sure a system this sophisticated would be worth the time and resources to probably not help the community out any more than the issue is being helped already by people joining the servers every night and knowing the community that plays on it. Also it's another thing that players WILL be able to whine about in some way. Eg. "Your team only won because you had that guy with a really low ranking! Go join another server!" Or a kick.
EDIT: There's also the fact that some high skilled players will intentionally (or could) join low skilled servers to rape face.
you know, if new players could
A) learn the game in relative peace
C) experience at least 1 very fun good game
i bet you more noobs would stick around. Everyone i have gotten to purchase this game, have quit, even though they thought it was awesome at 1st (they said ...performance, bad balance(team stacking), hackers (pubstompers), too complex, couldnt get into it ... were some of the reasons they came up with)
im getting dejavu, its like NS1 all over again, a slowly declining player base
The idea being that if we track each individual users stats on each team and apply a custom nerf to that player based on their k/d ratio. When they go over a 2:1 ratio they earn a 1 star badge and bullets do 1 less damage and bites do 10% less. If they can maintain that 2+:1 for a while they get a 2 star badge and so on and so on. The exact numbers and balance would be whatever they need to, I'm no expert in this. The reason I say k/d ratio instead of other variables is because the real problem with pub stomping is that these players just slaughter less skilled players solo, they don't win by helping build structures or repairing things. A pubstomper is a guy with a jetpack and a shotgun, not a gorge.
Anyway, I think this would allow comp players to play on well populated/low ping pub servers on the team of their choosing without ruining the game for the people already playing there. I understand a lot of comp players prefer Marines and as a person who greatly prefers alien I understand how it feels to be forced onto the team you'd rather not play. At the same time it would provide a much greater challenge for these players of exceptional skill.
Another fun side effect would be what it would do to aimbotters. Can you imagine the rage when an aimbotter empties a whole clip into a skulk and doesn't get a kill?
This mostly came about because we don't want to ban players for being skilled but at the same time they ruin games and they tend to stack marines when there is more then one.
So this is just an idea. I just think it's less invasive then any team balance style mod because it allows people to play on the team of their choice.
Thoughts?
You're doing well, here's a penalty.
Tactical gamer uses a balance mod that tracks players wins on the server and puts teams together that way (When triggered by an admin). It's not perfect but it's several times better than random in my experience. Between that, an active a reasonable admin system, and the server rules requiring players be able to communicate with their team there aren't too many straight stomps on the server.
Being registered in ENSL does not determine skill
K/D barely determines skill
Total matches won, can be used to determine skill but still barely
Accuracy can be determined to skill
Completing objectives can be determined to skill
You don't want anything that requires individuality to determine skill, hence why ns2stats is garbage; I literally avoid servers with that, sure it's useful info, but stats in general make people care about themselves and not winning. So anything that requires teamwork to determine skill is probably the best bet, because the goal is to win the match, not to kill 50 players and die once
All in all a system can be put in place, when someone keeps winning rank them higher, then they will face other people who are also constantly winning. And eventually you'd get...? That's right, two teams with competition! Just logging into this game everyday and seeing no servers for me to play on.. so what do I do, I just exit the game really
I have no interest in anything above 16 slots (minus balance test, i love playing there) the game simply goes out the window with so many players, dying becomes a non-issue, there's so much more room for mistakes, there's an extra five people around the corner, game performance worsens and blah blah I just hate it
I'm 110% sure that's already being worked on, and I believe sewlek is doing most of this so technically I don't think any time is being wasted?
I think the point of this thread isn't to determine who's more skilled or how to quantify it. It's more about how do we stop pub stomping from being an issue.
Pub stomping for the most part is just one or more really good players who just slaughter less skilled players. There's some really skilled players with a good sense of strategy and some with none, so it's really hard for anyone to measure that. Hence in formulating my thoughts I figured the best way to make sure it would only apply to comp level players was to only affect a players damage out put. By keeping it to one variable you can avoid unnecessary complications. I mean I could be totally wrong, I'm just trying to explain my train of thought.
The other side of it was forcing people onto teams they don't want to be on blows. I'd imagine most comp players given the choice between a handicap and playing on their team of choice would usually play on their team of choice. Again, I don't really know that for sure. I myself usually hold just positive of a 1:1 so I'm hardly qualified to make the call on what comp players prefer. That said, I don't enjoy playing on Marines. Partially because I'm not a great shot but mostly because running on the roof and swooping in for a quick bite is wicked fun. That's how I enjoy this game, others are different. Some people don't care what team they're on and that's great.
I just would like to see a system where everyone can play the way they want and have FUN on pub servers. I personally don't enjoy being forced onto marines and I don't enjoy being crushed every round by comp level marines. I like when the game is decided by well timed strategies and team work rather then a couple of clan team mates who want to play on the same team together but easily out class everyone else. Why shouldn't they play on the same team though? They're team mates and maybe even friends, it's part of their fun too, but in doing so they can ruin a server. There has to be a way to make these things work. Maybe not MY way but surely we can think of something better then what we have. /random totally sucks skulk balls.
How "skilled" you are is another matter.
These metrics would have to put in evidence a strong balance default in order to trigger the effect.
It could obviously be pertinent only in the early stages of game.
You would have also to make sure that a team is not able to lure the system in the early stage so they earn an advantage based on a faked inferiority.
In another hand, if a superior / stacked team restrain itslef from stomping at the very start, goal is somewhat achieved.
The boost or handicap should be limited in its effects in weight and/or duration.
- What are the metrics available ? whole teams K/D, RT's builded, collected res ratio ...
- You would need a minimum time in order to get enough metrics, 3(?) minutes.
- If the compensation is triggered, then it should last no more than 3(?) minutes.
- It could affect spawn / eggs hatch rates, trigger a fake team auto-balance calculation (on 8v8, lure the system it's 6v8)
Solution, create the ranking system keep it hidden, and tie it into RANDOM... such that RANDOM does not stack.... Of coarse there would need to be a randomizer function as well or the teams would repeat match after match so a tolerance would be needed where teams are random but total value of player skill cannot differ by more then 5-10%
And adding a competitive filter, which filters out those specific servers only and they require a 100-150+ hour playtime to join, surely the matches may not be even but at least the player will by then have some type of game sense even if they're still no good
I think its genius. Rookie servers or noob friendly servers desperately need something like this, I think anybody that would have a problem with this is probably one of those people who enjoy pub stomping on rookie servers :P
My suggestion is that you make it clear to people that they are being handicapped and why they are being handicapped, eg. Have a message show up saying " Your k/d is above 2:1, your damage will be reduced by xx%, this is a rookie friendly server using xxxxxx mod"
Elo-rating based solely on win/loss data (as that's the primary goal of playing NS2). Keep the ratings secret, but sort players into groups/leagues. Then add a column to the server browser that shows the number of players in the same or near group/league in that server.
Win + loss / objectives completed / accuracy / assists can all be combined as well
A team player with good accuracy and a high win ratio can prove the players skill
His is very similar to my original idea. I agree that sole ranking on k/d may not be best. Especially considering some players might be strong comm, and don't get a K/D. Either way, the ranking system wont force people onto servers, it just will give the server browser another visual queue for players to look at when joining a server and make a more educated decision about which servers to play on. Now veterans can't join and say they didn't know the server would be full of rooks, and rooks don't accidentally join a server that stomps their face in and isn't fun.