Spark Editor - Features (to speed up mapping) - you are (personally) missing ?

JoseppeJoseppe Join Date: 2012-01-21 Member: 141497Members
edited May 2013 in Mapping
SORRY IF THERE IS ALREADY A FEATURES THREAD - i did not find it!

engines i mapped:
* build: duke nukem 3d
* valve hammer editor: half life 1
* now: spark editor

=== i personally miss these features:

1.) Model Browser with category tree:

-a category model browser (based on current file names). right now you cant use the "eye dropper" to reselect a placed model and you always have to search the whole 1500 models again.
it would be much better if we had a categorie tree to show models given by the name you clicked on like this:

MODEL BROWSER (left: category tree + right: model view/pictures):
ALL (click on this and you see all models like it is right now)
|-marines (50 models)
|--exo...
|-aliens (40 models)
|--skulk (1 model)
|-refinery (300 models)
|--pipe (20 models)
|--chair (5 models)

2.) an easier option to group / ungroup faces.

right now i have to select each point of two brushes (if i didnt used the extrude tool) to group (= weld) faces together.
would be much easier if you just could select faces and group / weld them at the nearest points.
same should be to ungroup (unweld) this grouped (welded) faces.

3.) an option to save brushwork (like a model) with a category brushwork browser (independent from level files)
select a mapped pieced of brushwork and save it to your brushwork browser. later you can just select the mapped brushwork again and place it on another location
(on another map) and of course on the location your mouse cursor is.
example: i map a chair and texture it... would be nice to save it and just place it later WITHOUT flying through the whole map
* to select
* copy & paste
* move it to another location
* if you want to insert it in another level you have to SEARCH the exact location on the level you copied the chair
(sometimes you cant even find it if its out of draw distance, so you have to have a look on the x/y/z locations for the original chair to get the location in another level file)
right now: this is to much uncomfortable work to do in my opinion.
this would really be awesome... so i would never have to recreate a circles, rectangles and complex brushwork i have done before.
i just select the saved brushwork in a categorie tree (where i saved it before)...

BRUSHWORK BROWSER:
BASIC
|- full circle, 1/4 circle, 1/2 circle
|- square, rectangle, triangle
complex
|- chairs
|- doors
|- archs
|- bold geometry
|- lamp geometry
game rules
|- arc circle range
|- draw distance circle range
|- bile bomb distance circle range
|- marine jump high rectangle
|- onos height, width rectangle
|- techpoint with hive tentacle locations
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Comments

  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer
    What I really miss from Hammer is the entity list...
  • DarkSeraphDarkSeraph Join Date: 2004-06-07 Member: 29174Members
    Mendasp wrote: »
    What I really miss from Hammer is the entity list...

    What entities specifically? Just the logic ones (some are in EEM), or which ones?
  • PandademicPandademic Join Date: 2013-02-26 Member: 183359Members
    I'd love the ability to extrude along a defined line/curve, a la sketchup. A displacement tool more like hammer's. And though a model preview would be nice, I would much rather have a prop gallery. (I'm working on one bit by bit, just adding a few dozen more props every time, trying to put together a map where I can explore, in-game, all the props, and get a real feel for how they look and interact with geometry. But it's tedious, and unorganized.)
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited May 2013
    func_breakable
    func_button
    func_conveyor
    func_door
    func_door_rotating
    func_friction
    func_plat
    func_platrot
    func_rot_button
    func_rotating
    func_train
    func_water
    func_weldable

    trigger_gravity
    trigger_multiple
    trigger_once
    trigger_presence
    trigger_push
    trigger_teleport

    multisource
    multimanager
    trigger_relay
    trigger_changetarget
    trigger_random

    All triggers need a "on round reset"

    light_environment (sun, maybe multisource lights for this?)

    And more texture tools

    Treat as one, align to world/face (multiface editing)
    Texture lock on flipping (not just rotating and moving)
    Blending, to get rid of those lines on the floor
    Splines, smooth lines/decals
  • KoruyoKoruyo AUT Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited May 2013
    After reading Koujis post,
    So basically take a look at this https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/List_of_base_entities and implement almost everything. ^^
  • HowserHowser UK Join Date: 2010-02-08 Member: 70488Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    hold shift and drag to duplicate selection
    a hotkey to bridge a quad between two selected edges.
    extrude multiple selected faces as a group with the normal averaged and make it so it doesn't create a load of internal faces.
    Add a numerical input to extrude with bevel so we can use it to inset, bevel or extrude!
    Then I'd be a happy man
  • MCMLXXXIVMCMLXXXIV Join Date: 2010-04-14 Member: 71400Members
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    func_breakable <- coming to EEM
    func_button <- in EEM
    func_conveyor <- in EEM (well, Jim's made a func_push, you can probably make conveyors with it).
    func_door <- in EEM
    func_door_rotating <-- (possibly achievable currently with a train?)
    func_friction
    func_plat
    func_platrot <-- (possibly achievable currently with a train?)
    func_rot_button
    func_rotating
    func_train <- in EEM
    func_water
    func_weldable <- in EEM

    trigger_gravity <-- in EEM, not sure if it works 100% though
    trigger_multiple <- in EEM
    trigger_once <- in EEM
    trigger_presence <- in EEM
    trigger_push <-- in EEM
    trigger_teleport <-- in EEM

    multisource
    multimanager <-- in EEM (see logic_timer, output wired up to a logic_multiplier)
    trigger_relay <- in EEM (see logic_multiplier)
    trigger_changetarget <-- Missing but could be achieved by some mapper-wizardry
    trigger_random <- in EEM
    Let us modders (well, JimWest) help you out :]
    Is the plat/platrot the only other one you really need?
    There's also a few other entities that make more sense when you use the Xenoswarm codebase...
  • MCMLXXXIVMCMLXXXIV Join Date: 2010-04-14 Member: 71400Members
  • JimWestJimWest Join Date: 2010-01-03 Member: 69865Members, Reinforced - Silver
    edited May 2013
    I got also a platform in it.
    But my entites sometimes are called a bit different, like butten is logic_button etc.
    All my entities have a "round reset".
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer
    DarkSeraph wrote: »
    Mendasp wrote: »
    What I really miss from Hammer is the entity list...

    What entities specifically? Just the logic ones (some are in EEM), or which ones?

    I actually meant the option that displayed the list of entities used in the map that let you select and go to them in the editor. It'd be nice if you could do this per layer too. So I could select all the light entities in a layer, or in the whole map, for example, and do a change... or I forgot where I put my minimap extents... I don't want to be looking for it everywhere, etc.
  • JoseppeJoseppe Join Date: 2012-01-21 Member: 141497Members
    edited May 2013
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Treat as one

    is available right now, but its not working for all faces... only for flat faces.

    Treat as one:
    SWDvTX1.jpg

    Example - flat face - before:
    oUtFGuT.jpg
    Example - flat face - after:
    WuKMoqK.jpg

    Example - not flat face - right (use "flat face" method + texture lock + move center edges down):
    BAuY177.jpg
    Example - not flat face - wrong (don´t use "treat as one" on "not flat faces"):
    xbafPzL.jpg
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited May 2013
    Yeah I know about the feature incomplete "treat as one" option, but I don't want to work backwards: align textures -> modify geometry, besides as soon as you're into more complex geometry this trick will simply make your head explode 3 times :P

    Also my biggest pet peeve is the lack of texture lock on flipping geometry


    I've never actually looked into Spark mapping beyond the default and Last Stand stuff, this is basically my workflow:
    - opening the editor
    - slapping some stuff in there
    - play around with lights
    - open up the texture editor
    - modify some textures
    - get annoyed and reminisce the good old days when texturing was fun (it's better now, but still lacking them features)
    - close editor :(


    Jim that EEMod looks to be super awesome!


    Also about the texture editor, the stuff I've mentioned would be amazing to have and would make maps look much nicer as well, but there is one kinda quirky addition I'd like to see as well. Shaping square textures into the shape of the geometry (Sketchup has that). Basically what this does is if you have a piece of geometry that isn't entirely square/rectangle, you can take the corners of the texture, distort it into the shape of the face by locking the texture corners onto the face's vertex corners
  • DarkSeraphDarkSeraph Join Date: 2004-06-07 Member: 29174Members
    @Joseppe - some response from one of the UWE mappers. I've also sent this thread on so hopefully they'll take a look at some of the ideas here.
    #1 - Eyedropper for props would actually be really useful.

    #2 is actually not really a problem. If you double click a face it selects it and all its connected elements. You can use ctrl to use this double click functionality to select multiple groups of geometry, and use 'weld near vertices' to join them where they overlap (which I think is what he wants to do).

    #3 - This sounds basically like some sort of instantiation system, so that you can reuse groups of objects/geometry without going to the hassle of copy pasting each time, and updating each copy when you change something. I actually think this would be really useful but it would be important that the instances update when the 'master' copy of the instances is updated.
  • JoseppeJoseppe Join Date: 2012-01-21 Member: 141497Members
    edited May 2013
    thx for #2: i tried it and its working... thank you! (before i was welding each 2 single points together)
  • PandademicPandademic Join Date: 2013-02-26 Member: 183359Members
    So long as they share one vertex, they become one group - so my quick trick for combining groups has been simply welding one corner. I wasn't aware of how 'weld near vertices' worked either.
  • DarkSeraphDarkSeraph Join Date: 2004-06-07 Member: 29174Members
    edited May 2013
    I'd love to be able to delete an unnecessary vertice in a line that is no longer in use without deleting the whole line (and thus the face).

    Also can we please be able to re-organize the groups already? I don't think that would be that hard.

    Edit: you CAN re-organize layers, my bad.
  • SamusDroidSamusDroid Colorado Join Date: 2013-05-13 Member: 185219Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    edited May 2013
    A dimension tool to dimension lines, rectangles, etc... by typing in a value instead of having to guess and look at the length in bottom toolbar.
    Favorite textures feature to allow you to quickly select most commonly used textures.
    I second the category tree feature. Would be useful.
  • SolarisSolaris Join Date: 2003-05-11 Member: 16213Members
    Some things that got on my nerves during the last couple of days:
    - cannot change the order of the groups
    - cannot assign a custom color to groups (color selector/mixer like for the light entity)
    - texture browser goes back up to the beginning of the list whenever I click on a texture

    Other things that would have sped up my mapping a lot:
    - ability to select all faces that have the selected texture applied (for mass changing, finding out placed that cause material error messages, etc.)
    - a way to "pipette" props the same way you can with textures.
    - a way to have everything you create automatically be part of a selected group
    - the ability to "refine" selections. When I select multiple things often I just want the faces or the props, not both. I suggest having 3 little buttons (F, P, L) near where we can set texture lock to on/off. Whenever something is selected, all buttons are automatically set to "on". By switching one or more to "off", the respective type of stuff will be unselected. No more lines or points that accidently are copied, etc.

    Also:
    - why can't the editor create the minimap? I know the editor is meant to work with everything Spark while the minimap is specific to NS2, but why not create a checkbox when saving? Or an entry in the tool selection? I know there are the scripts that Mendasp created, I just think such essential stuff should be in the editor to begin with.
  • StardogStardog Join Date: 2004-10-25 Member: 32448Members
    We just need to get with the times and start using models for geometry. :P



    More Sketchup features would be useful, but Spark handles models so well that I would say that 90%+ of each map should be models/meshes mported from Sketchup/Blender/etc anyway.

    It's a tough job for one programmer to create a modelling program, but I would like to see these features:
    Ctrl-double-click to select geometry. Currently double-click will select all attached geometry, but you can't ctrl-double-click on other similar geometry to add it to the selection.
    Texture Alignment "Reset" button. Resets values to Scale 1 1, Shift 0 0, Rotation 0.
    Sketchup style grouping of objects.
    Extrude multiple surfaces at the same time.
    Resize multiple textures at the same time.
  • FlaterectomyFlaterectomy Netherlandistan Join Date: 2005-02-03 Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    Solaris wrote: »
    (...)
    - the ability to "refine" selections. When I select multiple things often I just want the faces or the props, not both. I suggest having 3 little buttons (F, P, L) near where we can set texture lock to on/off. Whenever something is selected, all buttons are automatically set to "on". By switching one or more to "off", the respective type of stuff will be unselected. No more lines or points that accidently are copied, etc.
    (...)
    There are a buttons on the bottom of the screen where you can toggle vertices, edges, faces, lights, props, and entities on and off.
  • xtcmenxtcmen Join Date: 2004-04-20 Member: 28040Members, Squad Five Blue
  • HowserHowser UK Join Date: 2010-02-08 Member: 70488Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    Probably more of an idea/suggestion then something I'm personally missing but while this thread is active....
    A distance reading from the perspective camera's center/crosshair to the first brush face would to make it easier to check for any Line of sight issues and gauge distances.
    The reading could be down in the bottom right before the coordinates then turn red when it exceeds the default LOS distance.
    The camera also needs to have a icon to mark its location in the 2d windows.
  • Rudy.czRudy.cz Join Date: 2012-02-13 Member: 145410Members
  • LokiLoki Join Date: 2012-07-07 Member: 153973Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    A way to sub group layers / groups
  • WhiteDevilWhiteDevil Join Date: 2012-09-16 Member: 159559Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Move layers in the layers list. Oh wait, they added that yesterday.
  • LokiLoki Join Date: 2012-07-07 Member: 153973Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    sub grouping layers aint the same as moving them around in the list
  • WhiteDevilWhiteDevil Join Date: 2012-09-16 Member: 159559Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited May 2013
    @lokee I wasn't replying for your post, sorry if it came across like so :l
    I know what you meant by that. I group up layers in photoshop all the time. I'd kill myself if that feature was removed since usually there's more than 50 layers in my stuff. Spark should definitely have that implemented.
  • SolarisSolaris Join Date: 2003-05-11 Member: 16213Members
    Solaris wrote: »
    (...)
    - the ability to "refine" selections. When I select multiple things often I just want the faces or the props, not both. I suggest having 3 little buttons (F, P, L) near where we can set texture lock to on/off. Whenever something is selected, all buttons are automatically set to "on". By switching one or more to "off", the respective type of stuff will be unselected. No more lines or points that accidently are copied, etc.
    (...)
    There are a buttons on the bottom of the screen where you can toggle vertices, edges, faces, lights, props, and entities on and off.

    Now I really feel stupid >_<
    Thanks for the heads-up.
  • SaladsSalads California Join Date: 2013-05-02 Member: 185086Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer
    I just started learning how to map, but I felt like there could be a few more useful features:

    I'd like numerical inputs for the rotate tool, as well as a snap to grid option to finish rotates faster. Something like this?
    84fY3Nj.png

    The settings box could only show up when both the rotate tool and a prop\entity is selected.

    The snap to grid could be set so when a user holds shift and drags a rotation circle, the prop/entity would rotate at intervals based on whatever degree is in the box. Dragging a circle without holding shift could just rotate it in freeform on axis like how it is now.

    Since the tool settings would only show up if a prop and rotate tool is selected, the align button could be used to click on a wall after the button click to align whatever was initially selected to the wall on it's y axis (side to side, like in the picture with the power node).

    I'd also like a list of entities/props that would show what I have in the map already, with filter options to find things quickly as the map gets bigger. It'd be pretty cool if I could click on an item in the list and select it that way, since the entities for designating areas and minimap tend to get in the way when zoomed out for a more complete view. (Is there a way to temporarily hide these entities btw? ;_;)

  • FlaterectomyFlaterectomy Netherlandistan Join Date: 2005-02-03 Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    Salads wrote: »
    The snap to grid could be set so when a user holds shift and drags a rotation circle, the prop/entity would rotate at intervals based on whatever degree is in the box. Dragging a circle without holding shift could just rotate it in freeform on axis like how it is now.
    I'm not entirely certain you're aware, but there's a slightly less custom way to do this already. In the lower right corner of your screenshot you see the 45.0º tickbox. You can select a few different preset values there to have your rotations snap.
    Salads wrote: »
    (Is there a way to temporarily hide these entities btw? ;_;)
    I personally always make a separate layers for entities, lights, props, etc per location, so I can just toggle the visibility of that layer off.
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