My Campaign For Lerk Improvement
Gibby
Join Date: 2002-04-26 Member: 518Members
Join Date: 2002-04-26 Member: 518Members
If anyone agrees with me, great. If not, great. I just think Lerks are lame until 3 hives. I've thought up possible improvements. I don't see them used often, and ususally not at all. Flying, while fun and fast, is rather hard to control, making it akward and difficult to use when attacking. And if you can crawl on walls, why bother flying? Plus, flying takes energy which makes attacking from midair a chore and will usually end in a (IMO)wasted 33 rps. I am aware of the "support" role of the Lerk. But they are rarely taken advantage of. Not many people are satisfied by Umbra-ing a doorway, flying back. Waiting. Waiting. Waiting. Umbra-ing the same doorway, flying back, waiting. Waiting. etc..
1.)<b>Increase HP to 80 and armor to 75, 100(if carapce is taken)</b>
They die really fast in direct fire. Noted, they're probably supposed to. But as the aliens are a deathmatch style team, and as morphing to a Lerk costs 33 rps, they seem a bit easy to die in the madness of battle which the deathmatcher craves.
2.)<b>Spike damage increased from 16 to 20 or ROF increased by one per second OR (what I really want to see) a 'shotgun' type spray that would serve more for suppression than the ultra-accurate ultra-weak spikes do currently. I think "spraying" spikes would be dang cool.</b>
The spikes are fun. But rather innefective. While a skulk, with enough practice, can strafe and kill a turret, a lerk can no problem. But it takes several minutes. And if you're caught in the act, it's usually goodnight Lerk. Again, deathmatch people aren't one for sitting about and firing spikes at a nearly-inanimate turret from a crevice for several minutes, then not getting a kill for it. Lerks really shouldn't be used for anti-building as much as anti-marine. If a lerk fired a swarm of spikes that did 7 or 8 damage a hit and consumed 1/3rd the energy it would be a fun time.
I'll illustrate a bit more. Right now it's 3 spikes a second. An annoying and perfectly accurate (despite a small arc) attack. It uses a lot of energy, and delivers a small result.
If perhaps the lerks fired closer to 12 spikes a second, in a large area of effect, (think HMG but without the pwnage), that did minimal damage, but would prevent marines from staying there (think Spore Cloud, but you'd have to be in LOS and it would constantly consume energy), and could be efficiently fired from the air, I think the lerk players would re-appear. Those would be fun. And I imagine would be getting a lot more kills. They should be a bit faster than normal spikes, smaller graphics.. etc..
3.)<b>Lower cost or reduce gestation time a bit?</b>
Haven't really thought about this in terms of balance, but it would help facilitate the class a bit more.
Well that's my plan. Please post your comments, as more replies means more notice by the dev staff! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
1.)<b>Increase HP to 80 and armor to 75, 100(if carapce is taken)</b>
They die really fast in direct fire. Noted, they're probably supposed to. But as the aliens are a deathmatch style team, and as morphing to a Lerk costs 33 rps, they seem a bit easy to die in the madness of battle which the deathmatcher craves.
2.)<b>Spike damage increased from 16 to 20 or ROF increased by one per second OR (what I really want to see) a 'shotgun' type spray that would serve more for suppression than the ultra-accurate ultra-weak spikes do currently. I think "spraying" spikes would be dang cool.</b>
The spikes are fun. But rather innefective. While a skulk, with enough practice, can strafe and kill a turret, a lerk can no problem. But it takes several minutes. And if you're caught in the act, it's usually goodnight Lerk. Again, deathmatch people aren't one for sitting about and firing spikes at a nearly-inanimate turret from a crevice for several minutes, then not getting a kill for it. Lerks really shouldn't be used for anti-building as much as anti-marine. If a lerk fired a swarm of spikes that did 7 or 8 damage a hit and consumed 1/3rd the energy it would be a fun time.
I'll illustrate a bit more. Right now it's 3 spikes a second. An annoying and perfectly accurate (despite a small arc) attack. It uses a lot of energy, and delivers a small result.
If perhaps the lerks fired closer to 12 spikes a second, in a large area of effect, (think HMG but without the pwnage), that did minimal damage, but would prevent marines from staying there (think Spore Cloud, but you'd have to be in LOS and it would constantly consume energy), and could be efficiently fired from the air, I think the lerk players would re-appear. Those would be fun. And I imagine would be getting a lot more kills. They should be a bit faster than normal spikes, smaller graphics.. etc..
3.)<b>Lower cost or reduce gestation time a bit?</b>
Haven't really thought about this in terms of balance, but it would help facilitate the class a bit more.
Well that's my plan. Please post your comments, as more replies means more notice by the dev staff! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
I guess all those games I've won by slipping into the Marine base with 2 Hives and eating their Infantry Portals were just flukes...
As for the energy it costs to fire spikes, I think its a great tradeoff, if not a bit too powerful. If you have adrenaline, jump in front of Marines, let loose and Umbra and go wild with spikes. See how long you last in battle. I for one carefully gauge my time in the Umbra before letting it regenerate and topping off another cloud. Lerks are fearsome creatures already, their low hitpoints and armor are a <b>very</b> fair tradeoff for what they can do on the battlefield.
Umbra is the most useful item in the Lerk's inventory, I just can't put it into words how great it is.
Well, that's just my opinion. (Shouldn't this be on the Idea Board)?
1: avoid direct fire by flying if they shoot at you
2: marines already fall quickly to spikes
3: don't gestate where you could be easily shot, same as other classes
Weapons:
1. Bite should be used only to take out a LMG marine only if he's alone and you have the drop on him. If that's not the case, skedaddle with your flying ability.
2. Spikes are not a weapon to be used on marines unless you are ready to run! They are best used to take out turret factories from way far away. You can sucessfully keep a marine team in his base with spikes from a vent. Marines hate spikes because they take out turret factories! They will waste precious minutes trying to vault up into the vent to fire a couple of shots.
3. The reason I've been playing lerk more and more is because I used to play a fade almost exclusively. Umbra + Fade = death. Not enough people knew how to slowly advance a fade under umbra. Cast umbra and then wait until your energy is back to about 3/4ths. Move forward about 15 feet and then cast it again. Rinse repeat. Your fades will be able to take out a turret farm in about 2 or 3 minutes if they don't suck. If they're good, less than a minute, no matter the size of the farm.
4. Spores are an end game weapon. If a lerk with spores and cloaking manages to approach the marine spawn area, they will end up spawning and dying. Spores kill an un-upgraded marine in about 2 or 3 seconds!! I constantly get about 20 kills in the last 5 minutes because I am sporing all over their base. Spawn, die, spawn, die.
Some tips I think are handy:
Unless someone placed a sensory chamber first I don't even bother getting any upgrades but adrenaline. A good lerk should never be damaged, and if you are you're likely about to die anyway. Cloaking helps lerks that are scouting/offensive spiking very much.
Learn to fly! Once you can use flying well (ie don't get stuck on support beams and can fly straight into a vent with no delay) there is little possibility of death. Run away, constantly.
Remember that deathmatching (which you say aliens are good at) doesn't just mean rushing the enemy. Use elements of suprise and don't fear retreat.
Edit: maybe this should go in the Khaara strategy forum.
Lerk = stealthy/speedy/flimsy fighter
Taking out turrets doesn't always have to take 2 or 3 minutes. 2 hives makes it a lot faster. If you're feeling gutsy, you can fly up to the turret factory and umbra yourself, and start chomping away at it while the umbra lasts. But don't bite too much, or you won't have enough energy to umbra again when the cloud dissapates
A shotgun-style spike blast would be.... lame. The lerk's spike attack and low health, and the fact that umbra doesn't stop knives or welders, makes the lerk a long-range fighter. Adding a super-fast spike attack would overpower it, IMO.
Basically, Lerks are a great asset to the team as it is, but they're not for getting 4:1 kill/death ratios (until you get spores, of course).
But still, I wish they were a little more durable. I hate getting taken out by a grenade that's 30' away and wasting 33-39 resources.
Don't do it that way. Fly up to the Turret Factory, Umbra, and have your Fade buddy run in behind you. Just keep the Umbra up while he poinds away at the factory and you'll have it dead inside 20 seconds. Add more Fades for speed.
That doesn't work very well if they have a bunch of marines in the room.
If I agree with any of your suggestions, it would be that lerks should have 100 life ^^
(Such as , every squad is at least 3 people, and the 3rd has a shotgun and a welder..their players..or their comm is smart. Or, if when you rush their base they have an observatory..smart comm there, be ready for a fight)
What I'm seeing more and more often is that people don't bother with Lerks or Onos. Onos gets stuck in the map all the time, gets stuck on ladders, and is innefective unless the player has had a LOT of practice with Onos. Lerk dies really easy, can't do anything interesting, and flies around fast.
So it's going to be Skulk -> Fade
Or Skulk ->Gorge
And only 3 of the 5 classes are going to be used. Which blows, because I'm sure that Flayra spent a ton of time on the lerk and Onos class.
Fades are awesome, as they should be. Onos is fine, just not worth taking because of the map issues.
Lerk is pathetic and weak and without Spore Cloud, is not necessary. Yes, that's right Lerk players. My aliens have won many games without a single Umbra.
At one hive the Lerk is still a decent sniper and harrasement unit. At two hives it becomes a walking globe of invunerability. I've seen 2 Fades and a Lerk hold off 5 HMG marines singlehandedly due to Umbra.
The Onos isn't the be-all end-all basecracker most people expect it to be, but it's still incredibly useful for it's cost. It takes out unsupported marines with incredible ease, and acts as a wonderful damage sponge when with teammates.
Love them, use them. The Lerk kicks **obscenity**.
If I were going to add something to the wishlist of lerks, it would be the ability to latch on to a wall/ceiling with my talons. It would be nice to hang from the ceiling like a bat instead of having to perch somewhere. But I don't think they are underpowered at all.
To balance it, have it use a marginal amount of energy, say 1 pt per second, and you don't regenerate your energy while clinging. That way it won't be like a flying skulk <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Otherwise, the lerk is perfect as is, been having a lot of fun with em recently, getting pretty good at flying too. It's not easy, but it has to be the most fun and inventive way of implementing any kind of flying on the HL engine I've ever seen.
To balance it, have it use a marginal amount of energy, say 1 pt per second, and you don't regenerate your energy while clinging. That way it won't be like a flying skulk <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Otherwise, the lerk is perfect as is, been having a lot of fun with em recently, getting pretty good at flying too. It's not easy, but it has to be the most fun and inventive way of implementing any kind of flying on the HL engine I've ever seen.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think Lerks are powerful enough, but I love the sound of that perch ability. How about it's activated by holding crouch, and the lerk isn't able to shoot while doing it? I'd love to perch up in a dark corner, then swoop down and bite some marines <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I rain death and destruction with lerks. their weak spot is that they are, well, weak. They are easy to kill. But this is balanced by probably the best kharaa skill in the game: umbra. Learn to use lerks, they definately don't need to be buffed.
Up in the sky, its a bird, its a plane, its Uberlerk.
P.S. Honestly, I think Inexorable is starting to lose it.
I was going to finish this post, but I just got lazy...
Lerks are also the most annoying alien to deal with. It's great fun to harass a marine base. By the time they've realized they're being shot at and found where the spikes are coming from, you've already put about 5 spikes into someone's back. Then everyone starts running around like chickens with their heads cut off. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Simply put, if you think harassing marines, helping your teammates, and earning the coolest and most useful hive abilities is boring, then you may not be playing the right game...or at least not as the right side.
I won't go into the Onos thing too much...but I will say that on the games I play, if we have three hives, we have at least ONE onos, if not two or three or four.