Well I've watched some casts in season 2 ENSL. Archea would research and place gorge tunnels before dropping a second hive (Build 242). That's quite an investment. I feel like playing aliens is about being proactive. Getting drifters out before dropping harvesters can set you back but grants awareness. Dropping a fade egg first thing instead of getting tech can grant map control and save p.res for onos.
Do you have the link of those matches?
Not doubting you, just want to see how they've used it.
Going Crag Hive first, they used the tunnels to secure a new Hive location before dropping the Hive. They were starting in Data Core and used it to secure Sub Access and Atrium (in two different matches).
Well I've watched some casts in season 2 ENSL. Archea would research and place gorge tunnels before dropping a second hive (Build 242). That's quite an investment. I feel like playing aliens is about being proactive. Getting drifters out before dropping harvesters can set you back but grants awareness. Dropping a fade egg first thing instead of getting tech can grant map control and save p.res for onos.
Do you have the link of those matches?
Not doubting you, just want to see how they've used it.
Sure thing. My mistake on the build. It is 241 with the bugged skulk movement. March 12
http://www.twitch.tv/sting_reddog/b/376958059
11:54 video time, 3:00 game time gorge tunnel research begins. As scrajm drops the 2nd entrance fana is scouting computer labs for danger. Another player drops the hive immediately.
Marines are paying 30 res for two phase gates, a gorge paying 20 is a fair cost for a pair of tunnel entrances.
Difference is that 30 res is tres whereas the 20 res is pres (not to mention the 10 pres to go gorge). You get tres much faster than pres. Imagine if PG had to be built by a player and come out of their pres. That would significantly reduce the number of exos/advanced weaponry if as many were built as are built in a typical game.
When a gorge drops GTs, they're basically saying that they're gonna be a gorge for most of the game and if they die, they're stuck as a skulk.
Plus as was said before, the economies are so different, you can't say that since PGs cost 30 res, GTs should cost 20 res ><.
gorge tunnel are fkn bugged... didnt take me in, but spit me out o.O (without even taking me in...) so i lost my lifeform to a shotgunner just arriving around the corner...
gorge tunnel are fkn bugged... didnt take me in, but spit me out o.O (without even taking me in...) so i lost my lifeform to a shotgunner just arriving around the corner...
I do think this should be reworked. Feels like an eternity trying to get into the things when you are being chased.
It's only got 1600 hp 100 armor at full maturity too. Quite vulnerable
Marines are paying 30 res for two phase gates, a gorge paying 20 is a fair cost for a pair of tunnel entrances.
Difference is that 30 res is tres whereas the 20 res is pres (not to mention the 10 pres to go gorge).
Lets be fair, the 10 res to go gorge is hardly wasted res. The gorge can do plenty more than just drop a tunnel entrance.
Imagine if PG had to be built by a player and come out of their pres. That would significantly reduce the number of exos/advanced weaponry if as many were built as are built in a typical game.
If marines had a SUPPORT class - which is what the gorge is - then I'd be fine with marines buying phase gates at 10 res a pop if that meant they could be dropping up to three 360 degree coverage sentries that require no batteries and forcefields that could block entrance through a particular hallway. I'll buy that - sure.
The gorge does a lot, despite losing res that could be used on higher lifeforms. The 10 pres for tunnels is not a sacrifice. Marines spend 15 res for a pack of only THREE mines, that may never get a single kill, and that are destroyed when used. And don't get me started on welders... That's all resources that can't be spent on an EXO. (but that's a debate for another thread.)
I think 15 res for gorge tunnel research is reasonable - so long as the research time isn't reduced.
If marines had a SUPPORT class - which is what the gorge is - then I'd be fine with marines buying phase gates at 10 res a pop if that meant they could be dropping up to three 360 degree coverage sentries that require no batteries and forcefields that could block entrance through a particular hallway. I'll buy that - sure.
WTF?? First off, every marine can be a support class by buying a welder or mines. Secondly, where the heck did sentries and forcefields come from? If you're making a reference to hydras/clogs... not even gonna bother.
The gorge does a lot, despite losing res that could be used on higher lifeforms. The 10 pres for tunnels is not a sacrifice. Marines spend 15 res for a pack of only THREE mines, that may never get a single kill, and that are destroyed when used. And don't get me started on welders... That's all resources that can't be spent on an EXO. (but that's a debate for another thread.)
I think 15 res for gorge tunnel research is reasonable - so long as the research time isn't reduced.
I agree, the gorge does do a lot for the team, but they can't fight. They support. Every single marine can fight and support by picking up a welder, but not gonna get into that.
The pres for tunnels is a sacrifice unless you're planning on gorging for the entire game. Atm, 20 res is 2/3 of a lerk, 2/5 of a fade, etc. That is 20 res (plus 10 for the gorge) that you have to wait to get again in order to be a higher life form. Not gonna talk about mines because that is a different topic.
15 res for research is definitely reasonable and I agree the research time should remain the same. I was even fine with the 10 pres per entrance that's in the game. I was only talking about research costs in the OP.
Personally I wonder if marines being able to enter the tunnels is really a good idea. Yeah it's sort of cool, but it creates a kneejerk fear response to tunnel placement that I think is making tunnels less popular. It's natural that you want one end of the tunnel to be in a safe location where the marines aren't going to kill it, which means practically every useful tunnel position is also a backdoor to your base. That's just too risky IMO, even if it's actually relatively rare that marines do much damage that way.
well lowering the cost might causes some imbalance i think - for the moment gorge tunnels are useful but too expensive like called. lowering the cost to 15 might would change the 0815 alienplay to something more special, but anyways for gorge tunnels the maps need to be redesigned while there are actually nearly none good placements for those or lack room to place them.
you def. do not want them at your hive location and the other entry possible for marines to enter it without at least jetpacks and use your stuff wich you have bought. so redesign some vents to make them more viable/useful or less risky
the thing about gorge tunnels is they aren't linked like phase gates (and are quite expensive on the pres side)
Also they seem to be very slow at responding, like when you run through a phase it's an immediate teleport.. but sometimes when I'm a lerk or etc trying to enter the tunnel it feels like it takes a while before the game is trying to realize that I'm entering the tunnel, not sure if that's intentional or a bug
Personally I wonder if marines being able to enter the tunnels is really a good idea. Yeah it's sort of cool, but it creates a kneejerk fear response to tunnel placement that I think is making tunnels less popular. It's natural that you want one end of the tunnel to be in a safe location where the marines aren't going to kill it, which means practically every useful tunnel position is also a backdoor to your base. That's just too risky IMO, even if it's actually relatively rare that marines do much damage that way.
Depends. Your Hive is still your home. A Gorge should usually get some Hydras up in the range of the Gorge Tunnel in the base or let the khammander place some Whips around it. Crags in the base also prevent marines from doing too much damage too quickly. A solo marine is not a threat anyway. You have aliens respawning constantly at the Hive, so that already makes sure that no marine sneaks into it. If an entire marine team prepares to go through the Tunnel, that means that your team lost that Tunnel in engagements for quite a while already and thus should be at least alarmed about it.
Marines popping out of it will be low on armor after all and should be easier to clean up that way unless they weld each other.
If marines had a SUPPORT class - which is what the gorge is - then I'd be fine with marines buying phase gates at 10 res a pop if that meant they could be dropping up to three 360 degree coverage sentries that require no batteries and forcefields that could block entrance through a particular hallway. I'll buy that - sure.
WTF? First off, every marine can be a support class by buying a welder or mines.
Now it's my turn. WTF? Seriously? A welder makes a marine a 'support class'? Sorry, but no.
Secondly, where the heck did sentries and forcefields come from? If you're making a reference to hydras/clogs...
Yes I am making that comparison, and the reason I did so was to put your reference to phase gates into perspective. If you want to being that up, then don't reject other comparisons.
Marines don't have a support class. If they did have a support class - that could do similar to what a gorge does - then I would be fine with the cost coming out of his p-res.
the gorge does do a lot for the team, but they can't fight. They support.
Huh? I have three words for you.
Learn to gorge.
Gorges can most certainly fight. The reason most gorges die is either that they weren't paying attention and a marine ambushed them, or the gorge decided to try and FLEE instead of fighting.
If a marine is in close range to a gorge, then belly sliding away is a quick way to die.
Spit does 30 damage. Here are the number of spits you need for a kill:
A0: 6, A1: 7, A2: 8, A3: 10
A gorge can fire 2 spits a second. He can kill an A0 marine in 3 seconds if the gorge connects with all 6. If a marine is A0 then they will likely be W0 as well. Did you know that if you rush a marine so that you are so close that you can't miss, that you can NOT be killed by the marine before you kill him? A gorge has 290 effective health. His LMG can deal 250 damage in one clip that takes 4 seconds to fire. You can kill him in 3 seconds and the marine still won't have done enough damage to kill you if you miss 50% of your shots.
The number one threat to a gorge's life is PANIC. If you panic you will die. If you LOL and start shooting at this guy, you'll see him start running when in 4 spits he realizes that he's about to die.
The pres for tunnels is a sacrifice unless you're planning on gorging for the entire game. Atm, 20 res is 2/3 of a lerk, 2/5 of a fade, etc. That is 20 res (plus 10 for the gorge) that you have to wait to get again in order to be a higher life form.
A person who goes gorge is not someone who will be going Onos. (at least not in an even game) That's a choice a person makes by going gorge. What the gorge will often do is go lerk afterwards, and act as support for other higher level aliens. It fits in well with the role he was playing as gorge.
So it's no real sacrifice for a gorge to drop a couple tunnel entrances. He knew the moment he went gorge what he was getting into.
From playing around with them they're very situational. Unlike marine phase gates you can't just drop loads of them and use them quickly, you can only drop them in linked pairs and they are much harder to set up.
Conversely, they can be set up without any support, and as such can be hidden quite nicely.
I won a game during the free weekend by skulking onto the entrance to terminal from landing pad and then evolving to gorge and dropping a tunnel exit there.
They can be very useful for getting aliens to unexpected places, because of this one (and because marines can't attack it without a jetpack/GL) we were able to take terminal under a steady pressure of skulks, cut the marines in half, and mop up the two remaining bases.
But, that was a rather specific circumstance. I'd say they could probably be made cheaper because their utility is mostly determined by how well you place them, not by whether you're prepared to research them.
"I hope tunnels are improved and Shift Eggs changed so they can only be placed near Hives... It's confusing to spawn from an Egg in some random place the Khamm decided. Always spawning at Hives and by your own choosing using a tunnel would feel more controlled."
LIKE DUDE! Sometimes the only way to ensure there are enough skulks at a critical point in the game at a critical place in the map is to use Shift Eggs. Can't think of many 22+ player maps I've won since release Khamming without Shift Eggs, maybe 20% of the time the skulks don't die at a rate that prevents our extractors being held. The other 80% I have always built a shift at a forward strategic position. It has to be one of the easiest, effective and educational opening strats as aliens to learn as Khamm. I do however wish Echo and Hallucination cost 10 Tres, not 15.
I hope tunnels are improved and Shift Eggs changed so they can only be placed near Hives... It's confusing to spawn from an Egg in some random place the Khamm decided. Always spawning at Hives and by your own choosing using a tunnel would feel more controlled.
Uhhh, shifting eggs at a non hive location can be really really useful, why don't you just learn the maps or press C.
Because Eggs only at Hives would be consistent. I associate Eggs with Hives. Eggs without an Hive nearby is just ... wrong. On top of that, forward Shift Eggs and (useful) Gorge Tunnels would have conflicting uses.
LIKE DUDE! Sometimes the only way to ensure there are enough skulks at a critical point in the game at a critical place in the map is to use Shift Eggs. Can't think of many 22+ player maps I've won since release Khamming without Shift Eggs, maybe 20% of the time the skulks don't die at a rate that prevents our extractors being held. The other 80% I have always built a shift at a forward strategic position. It has to be one of the easiest, effective and educational opening strats as aliens to learn as Khamm. I do however wish Echo and Hallucination cost 10 Tres, not 15.
What's wrong with spawning those Skulks at a Hive, then having the Skulks use a Gorge Tunnel (that have been improved/adjusted) to reach the places they need to be?
You spawn at Hives. You travel through Gorge Tunnels. The Eggs you spawn from can be generated by Hives at a steady pace, and the Eggs can be dropped by the Khamm with Shifts (increasing the spawn rate).
Marines popping out of it will be low on armor after all and should be easier to clean up that way unless they weld each other.
Not really, a marine can get through a tunnel and only lose 10 armor (2 ticks) by sprinting with a rifle. Obviously less damage if you switch to your axe.
A duel exo can get through and only lose 35-40 armor (slowest marine unit). The damage in the tunnels is not enough to discourage marines from entering. The only reason we don't see this commonly imho is because 1) GTs are very, very rarely used and 2) most marines don't know how pathetic the damage from the tunnel is.
In one of Hugh's vids before PAX, he found a GT and went through it and sniped most of the alien's upgrades (thus winning the game). Granted, the gorge/khamm should have defended the tunnel, but the point is that marines can travel through tunnels with very little worry.
I hope tunnels are improved and Shift Eggs changed so they can only be placed near Hives... It's confusing to spawn from an Egg in some random place the Khamm decided. Always spawning at Hives and by your own choosing using a tunnel would feel more controlled.
Uhhh, shifting eggs at a non hive location can be really really useful, why don't you just learn the maps or press C.
The thing is that having the ability associated with the Shift tech path instead of the Hive in general forces you easily into the common Shift - Crag - Shade order for tech paths if you get into a situation where you are close to egg lock. Getting spawned at a forward location to save time may be one purpose of the Movement Chamber tech path that Shift is, but nowhere would I associate "movement" with the ability to spawn more aliens than other tech paths could.
Hence why I like the approach of the Balance mod on this topic:
The Egg Hatch is an ability of the Hive itself, so it's available to all tech paths without any prerequisites.
Each Hive also has a cap on the number of eggs it can have. The old Shift system was able to work around that cap, but now it remains since a Hive can't hatch more eggs than it's cap after all (so marines have somewhat of a chance to surprise-egg lock).
The actual forward spawn and "movement" part of the Shift tech path still remains by having the Shift's Teleport ability unlocked by default with the basic Shift. So instead of placing a Shift at the front line and hatch eggs from it there, you now place the Shift at your Hive and teleport some of it's eggs (which are still bound to the maximum cap of eggs for that Hive) to any part of the map where you have infestation, at the cost of 1 res per teleported egg. So if you already have a lot of eggs at your Hive, this is cheaper than hatching eggs at the front. If you need more eggs, it gets more expensive because you use 5 res for the Egg Hatch on the Hive and then 1 per egg to teleport them away.
Whether or not an alien actually spawns in that teleported egg is still up to randomness, I think (maybe the spawn system would then put priority on eggs that have been teleported), but the chances increase of course with the amounts of eggs teleported. Due to the cooldown on the teleport, you can't spam eggs at the frontline as much as with Egg Hatch from a Shift. So it doesn't turn you into an unstoppable zerg-defense where you win the battle by numbers.
Personally I wonder if marines being able to enter the tunnels is really a good idea. Yeah it's sort of cool, but it creates a kneejerk fear response to tunnel placement that I think is making tunnels less popular. It's natural that you want one end of the tunnel to be in a safe location where the marines aren't going to kill it, which means practically every useful tunnel position is also a backdoor to your base. That's just too risky IMO, even if it's actually relatively rare that marines do much damage that way.
Depends. Your Hive is still your home. A Gorge should usually get some Hydras up in the range of the Gorge Tunnel in the base or let the khammander place some Whips around it. Crags in the base also prevent marines from doing too much damage too quickly. A solo marine is not a threat anyway. You have aliens respawning constantly at the Hive, so that already makes sure that no marine sneaks into it. If an entire marine team prepares to go through the Tunnel, that means that your team lost that Tunnel in engagements for quite a while already and thus should be at least alarmed about it.
Marines popping out of it will be low on armor after all and should be easier to clean up that way unless they weld each other.
so 9 Pres for hydras...how many crags and whips are you suggesting are placed to mitigate against that 1 lone marine?
This is a lot of res for early game...or mid game...by the time a khamm doesn't think twice about the res investment its late game and GG either way.
Are gorge tunnels not a way for the khamm to save on the Tres cost of making shifts/eggs/celerity but still granting some portion of the map control that these upgrades offer? It allows you to have a remote presence on the map while still having cara/crags?
I think the HP of gorge tunnels needs to be increased personally, they always seem a little too easy to take down as it stands...
Comments
Do you have the link of those matches?
Not doubting you, just want to see how they've used it.
Sure thing. My mistake on the build. It is 241 with the bugged skulk movement. March 12
http://www.twitch.tv/sting_reddog/b/376958059
11:54 video time, 3:00 game time gorge tunnel research begins. As scrajm drops the 2nd entrance fana is scouting computer labs for danger. Another player drops the hive immediately.
http://www.twitch.tv/sting_reddog/b/376967236 + http://www.twitch.tv/sting_reddog/b/376971875
24:34 video time, 4:12 game time gorge tunnel research begins.
There is a 4 round game vs HBZ recorded march 18 on gohanzeta's channel. They did not use gorge tunnels that time though. build 241.
Difference is that 30 res is tres whereas the 20 res is pres (not to mention the 10 pres to go gorge). You get tres much faster than pres. Imagine if PG had to be built by a player and come out of their pres. That would significantly reduce the number of exos/advanced weaponry if as many were built as are built in a typical game.
When a gorge drops GTs, they're basically saying that they're gonna be a gorge for most of the game and if they die, they're stuck as a skulk.
Plus as was said before, the economies are so different, you can't say that since PGs cost 30 res, GTs should cost 20 res ><.
I do think this should be reworked. Feels like an eternity trying to get into the things when you are being chased.
It's only got 1600 hp 100 armor at full maturity too. Quite vulnerable
If marines had a SUPPORT class - which is what the gorge is - then I'd be fine with marines buying phase gates at 10 res a pop if that meant they could be dropping up to three 360 degree coverage sentries that require no batteries and forcefields that could block entrance through a particular hallway. I'll buy that - sure.
The gorge does a lot, despite losing res that could be used on higher lifeforms. The 10 pres for tunnels is not a sacrifice. Marines spend 15 res for a pack of only THREE mines, that may never get a single kill, and that are destroyed when used. And don't get me started on welders... That's all resources that can't be spent on an EXO. (but that's a debate for another thread.)
I think 15 res for gorge tunnel research is reasonable - so long as the research time isn't reduced.
Never said it was or that that was all they could do.
WTF?? First off, every marine can be a support class by buying a welder or mines. Secondly, where the heck did sentries and forcefields come from? If you're making a reference to hydras/clogs... not even gonna bother.
I agree, the gorge does do a lot for the team, but they can't fight. They support. Every single marine can fight and support by picking up a welder, but not gonna get into that.
The pres for tunnels is a sacrifice unless you're planning on gorging for the entire game. Atm, 20 res is 2/3 of a lerk, 2/5 of a fade, etc. That is 20 res (plus 10 for the gorge) that you have to wait to get again in order to be a higher life form. Not gonna talk about mines because that is a different topic.
15 res for research is definitely reasonable and I agree the research time should remain the same. I was even fine with the 10 pres per entrance that's in the game. I was only talking about research costs in the OP.
you def. do not want them at your hive location and the other entry possible for marines to enter it without at least jetpacks and use your stuff wich you have bought. so redesign some vents to make them more viable/useful or less risky
Also they seem to be very slow at responding, like when you run through a phase it's an immediate teleport.. but sometimes when I'm a lerk or etc trying to enter the tunnel it feels like it takes a while before the game is trying to realize that I'm entering the tunnel, not sure if that's intentional or a bug
Depends. Your Hive is still your home. A Gorge should usually get some Hydras up in the range of the Gorge Tunnel in the base or let the khammander place some Whips around it. Crags in the base also prevent marines from doing too much damage too quickly. A solo marine is not a threat anyway. You have aliens respawning constantly at the Hive, so that already makes sure that no marine sneaks into it. If an entire marine team prepares to go through the Tunnel, that means that your team lost that Tunnel in engagements for quite a while already and thus should be at least alarmed about it.
Marines popping out of it will be low on armor after all and should be easier to clean up that way unless they weld each other.
Yes I am making that comparison, and the reason I did so was to put your reference to phase gates into perspective. If you want to being that up, then don't reject other comparisons.
Marines don't have a support class. If they did have a support class - that could do similar to what a gorge does - then I would be fine with the cost coming out of his p-res. Huh? I have three words for you.
Learn to gorge.
Gorges can most certainly fight. The reason most gorges die is either that they weren't paying attention and a marine ambushed them, or the gorge decided to try and FLEE instead of fighting.
If a marine is in close range to a gorge, then belly sliding away is a quick way to die.
Spit does 30 damage. Here are the number of spits you need for a kill:
A0: 6, A1: 7, A2: 8, A3: 10
A gorge can fire 2 spits a second. He can kill an A0 marine in 3 seconds if the gorge connects with all 6. If a marine is A0 then they will likely be W0 as well. Did you know that if you rush a marine so that you are so close that you can't miss, that you can NOT be killed by the marine before you kill him? A gorge has 290 effective health. His LMG can deal 250 damage in one clip that takes 4 seconds to fire. You can kill him in 3 seconds and the marine still won't have done enough damage to kill you if you miss 50% of your shots.
The number one threat to a gorge's life is PANIC. If you panic you will die. If you LOL and start shooting at this guy, you'll see him start running when in 4 spits he realizes that he's about to die.
A person who goes gorge is not someone who will be going Onos. (at least not in an even game) That's a choice a person makes by going gorge. What the gorge will often do is go lerk afterwards, and act as support for other higher level aliens. It fits in well with the role he was playing as gorge.
So it's no real sacrifice for a gorge to drop a couple tunnel entrances. He knew the moment he went gorge what he was getting into.
Conversely, they can be set up without any support, and as such can be hidden quite nicely.
I won a game during the free weekend by skulking onto the entrance to terminal from landing pad and then evolving to gorge and dropping a tunnel exit there.
They can be very useful for getting aliens to unexpected places, because of this one (and because marines can't attack it without a jetpack/GL) we were able to take terminal under a steady pressure of skulks, cut the marines in half, and mop up the two remaining bases.
But, that was a rather specific circumstance. I'd say they could probably be made cheaper because their utility is mostly determined by how well you place them, not by whether you're prepared to research them.
LIKE DUDE! Sometimes the only way to ensure there are enough skulks at a critical point in the game at a critical place in the map is to use Shift Eggs. Can't think of many 22+ player maps I've won since release Khamming without Shift Eggs, maybe 20% of the time the skulks don't die at a rate that prevents our extractors being held. The other 80% I have always built a shift at a forward strategic position. It has to be one of the easiest, effective and educational opening strats as aliens to learn as Khamm. I do however wish Echo and Hallucination cost 10 Tres, not 15.
What's wrong with spawning those Skulks at a Hive, then having the Skulks use a Gorge Tunnel (that have been improved/adjusted) to reach the places they need to be?
You spawn at Hives. You travel through Gorge Tunnels. The Eggs you spawn from can be generated by Hives at a steady pace, and the Eggs can be dropped by the Khamm with Shifts (increasing the spawn rate).
Not really, a marine can get through a tunnel and only lose 10 armor (2 ticks) by sprinting with a rifle. Obviously less damage if you switch to your axe.
A duel exo can get through and only lose 35-40 armor (slowest marine unit). The damage in the tunnels is not enough to discourage marines from entering. The only reason we don't see this commonly imho is because 1) GTs are very, very rarely used and 2) most marines don't know how pathetic the damage from the tunnel is.
In one of Hugh's vids before PAX, he found a GT and went through it and sniped most of the alien's upgrades (thus winning the game). Granted, the gorge/khamm should have defended the tunnel, but the point is that marines can travel through tunnels with very little worry.
The thing is that having the ability associated with the Shift tech path instead of the Hive in general forces you easily into the common Shift - Crag - Shade order for tech paths if you get into a situation where you are close to egg lock. Getting spawned at a forward location to save time may be one purpose of the Movement Chamber tech path that Shift is, but nowhere would I associate "movement" with the ability to spawn more aliens than other tech paths could.
Hence why I like the approach of the Balance mod on this topic:
The Egg Hatch is an ability of the Hive itself, so it's available to all tech paths without any prerequisites.
Each Hive also has a cap on the number of eggs it can have. The old Shift system was able to work around that cap, but now it remains since a Hive can't hatch more eggs than it's cap after all (so marines have somewhat of a chance to surprise-egg lock).
The actual forward spawn and "movement" part of the Shift tech path still remains by having the Shift's Teleport ability unlocked by default with the basic Shift. So instead of placing a Shift at the front line and hatch eggs from it there, you now place the Shift at your Hive and teleport some of it's eggs (which are still bound to the maximum cap of eggs for that Hive) to any part of the map where you have infestation, at the cost of 1 res per teleported egg. So if you already have a lot of eggs at your Hive, this is cheaper than hatching eggs at the front. If you need more eggs, it gets more expensive because you use 5 res for the Egg Hatch on the Hive and then 1 per egg to teleport them away.
Whether or not an alien actually spawns in that teleported egg is still up to randomness, I think (maybe the spawn system would then put priority on eggs that have been teleported), but the chances increase of course with the amounts of eggs teleported. Due to the cooldown on the teleport, you can't spam eggs at the frontline as much as with Egg Hatch from a Shift. So it doesn't turn you into an unstoppable zerg-defense where you win the battle by numbers.
so 9 Pres for hydras...how many crags and whips are you suggesting are placed to mitigate against that 1 lone marine?
This is a lot of res for early game...or mid game...by the time a khamm doesn't think twice about the res investment its late game and GG either way.
I think the HP of gorge tunnels needs to be increased personally, they always seem a little too easy to take down as it stands...