I named alien start Church of Onos in my videos. Not sure if you want to rename that on the TV or keep it Alien Start for cllarity.
No clue - I can do either. MS doesn't have a name so I kept it that way, but I really have no preference. Church of Onos is fine too! It actually should still be clear due to coloring.
Mhm portal effects i think i could let the portals create the automatically ingame
That would be awesome! Some sort of wormhole-like effect when you use a teleport would be ridiculously cool. Or do you mean a setting in the teleport_trigger that would create the props used for the portal effect?
I guess I should add you on the line with Howser and list teleport_trigger or extra entities mod or something - clearly the map wouldn't exist without your work.
Edit: Got a preview of WhiteDevil's concept and it will look cool and fit well. I'll let him share with you if he wants.
I agree, a "special thanks" credit for Howser and Jimwest is well deserved.
The billboard looks great. But maybe overkill on the portal font. Maybe just use it twice, once in the name (change to blue), and once in the word orange?
In other news, I have a suggestion for the map overlay.
^ This is the map as is, with yellow lines indicating connected portals. A bit of a mess, and IMO this would be a big turnoff when introduced to the map in game. Could be cleaned up by bending the lines and ignoring exact portal locations, but I think that would actually be more confusing for new players.
^ This is the theoretical layout of the map. It ignores the geography of portals relative to their rooms, and ignores the geography of rooms relative to one another. This is what the map looks like if you don't have the map. Much easier to understand at a glance.
^ And here's how it could look if we adjust the actual layout to match the theoretical one.
As well as rearranging the rooms, Gravity and Gorge Tunnel are rotated 180 degrees, and the outputs of the blue portals in Marine Start, as well as the blue portals in Lava have been swapped. That's all.
I know moving the rooms threatens to mess up a lot of textures, especially rotating Gravitry, so maybe we could just apply this to the map overlay, and not make actual changes to the map itself? By the looks of the overlay for co_stargate, I assume it's as easy as replacing the overlay file in the workshop folder. I'm not terribly savvy with this stuff, but as I understand it this can be done by making the above changes in editor to generate a new overlay, or simply use a revised version of the graphic I made here.
Related question: is there any limit to how far the rooms can be spaced?
I agree with Pandemic that maybe straightening up the layout could help the new players to enjoy the map more, but I think that simply changing the portals destinations would be much easier than moving the rooms around.
I suggest that Lava falls and Gravity hub surround should be put in to the Commander Invisible group to not be rendered in to the minimap. Also the "credits" could be made in to scrolling texture, I think there should be a shader for this (not sure though)
In other news, I have a suggestion for the map overlay.
I know moving the rooms threatens to mess up a lot of textures, especially rotating Gravitry, so maybe we could just apply this to the map overlay, and not make actual changes to the map itself? By the looks of the overlay for co_stargate, I assume it's as easy as replacing the overlay file in the workshop folder. I'm not terribly savvy with this stuff, but as I understand it this can be done by making the above changes in editor to generate a new overlay, or simply use a revised version of the graphic I made here.
Related question: is there any limit to how far the rooms can be spaced?
Meh I don't really care. If it's really that confusing we can just line up all of the rooms nicely and draw lines so they know where they are going. Being a little 'lost' was intended to be part of the map and we haven't been able to test with that many new players yet due to the download issue, but I really don't have any serious preference at this point. Texture lock mostly works so if everyone really wants I'll just match the original flow chart and not the layout. Though making this change would have been much easier when we were discussing the concept!
The further you space out the room the less helpful the minimap will be, as the larger the minimap is the smaller you appear on it.
I agree with Pandemic that maybe straightening up the layout could help the new players to enjoy the map more, but I think that simply changing the portals destinations would be much easier than moving the rooms around.
I suggest that Lava falls and Gravity hub surround should be put in to the Commander Invisible group to not be rendered in to the minimap. Also the "credits" could be made in to scrolling texture, I think there should be a shader for this (not sure though)
I'm so confused how many new players you guys have tested this with. When try on my server new players are unable to play as they have not previously subscribed to the map and downloaded it and get an error when it launches. I have an email out that I'm hoping to get some help with this issue, but I haven't been able to really test the map with new players yet.
Regardless - whatever. Sure we can move the rooms, which I kinda prefer as the rooms connecting to MS for example feel more 'marine' than 'alien'. But it doesn't really matter, I can also go through and change all of the portal destinations and then the portal effects again to match that. Someone just decide and let me know.
Ok you are right, assuming that feedback from the actual players on the portal connections is not sufficient we should leave the things as they are.
On the download issue, I cannot offer any help unfortunately. Seeing much larger mods downloading with no problem (NS1 classsic) I am not sure if the size is the issue.
I encountered this "file not found" issue only once, when I have published new mod with different privacy setting than "public". Changing it to "public" solved the issue, but took few hours to Workshop to catch up.
Ok you are right, assuming that feedback from the actual players on the portal connections is not sufficient we should leave the things as they are.
On the download issue, I cannot offer any help unfortunately. Seeing much larger mods downloading with no problem (NS1 classsic) I am not sure if the size is the issue.
I encountered this "file not found" issue only once, when I have published new mod with different privacy setting than "public". Changing it to "public" solved the issue, but took few hours to Workshop to catch up.
We'll see. We likely will still want it to change if you guys are feeling that it's confusing.
ns2c is 30MB. We hit this issue after I added the portal stuff you gave me. My guess is the max is around 50-60MB. We're currently at 85MB. Actually Workshop only says 36MB though 85MB is in the output folder.
I didn't even consider confusing the players on purpose. Suddenly the scrambled rooms make sense. If keeping geography confusing is the intention then I'm totally on board, and we should leave the layout as is.
Yeh the size ATM is pretty big, does no1 have some clever way we can try cut the portal model sizes down or someway to reuse the same prop or something, dont really want to lose the cool effects ofc :P
QwiXXer: any scale issues can be fixed with the Scale tool... just make sure you select all the models at the same time. Hold ctrl (?) to get uniform scaling.
DarkSeraph: decreasing the portal image resolution is probably the smartest way to lower the space used. With all the distortion, cinematics and such you could probably get away with them being 128*. But i'd try them at 512* first.
^ And here's how it could look if we adjust the actual layout to match the theoretical one.
I know moving the rooms threatens to mess up a lot of textures, especially rotating Gravitry,
Gravity can easily be moved around without many textures being affected. I'm happy to fix any textures that are affected in my rooms if you decide to move it around.
While the map is a fun map, Personally I feel if you want the map to be taken seriously as a fun combat map the mini-map needs to be clear on the direction you're travelling and a few rooms should be moved to line up and a few portals moved like in the picture above.
I'd also recommend if using that picture above as a map rotating lava cave and transit 90 degrees clockwise.
I preferred the word "portals" to have the portal image in it, rather than just the one word orange.
My reasons Both the Blue and Orange "Portals lead to" instructions are visually clear.
I also loved the idea of Rudy's for the scrolling texture for the credits.
I suggest that Lava falls and Gravity hub surround should be put in to the Commander Invisible group to not be rendered in to the minimap. Also the "credits" could be made in to scrolling texture, I think there should be a shader for this (not sure though)
I agree the surround should not appear on the mini map - I make a pass at it
I must apologize everyone - I've made an error and left some of the source files that Rudy sent me in there. The map is only 49MB now - however Workshop is not working for me this evening and I can't publish. I'll try again tomorrow and will test it once updated.
Worthy this won't affect you changing the map, in case you decide to make another revision.
Also it sounds like people really want to straighten out the map to the original flow diagram. I am a bit concerned about moving everything though; especially rotating them.
Shame about workshop I had tonight free to work on it but I'll wait for the revisions you post on workshop tomorrow then make a pass at the map on my day off Friday. Gives me time to play the new patch for Planetary Annihilation Alpha
QwiXXer: any scale issues can be fixed with the Scale tool... just make sure you select all the models at the same time. Hold ctrl (?) to get uniform scaling.
MAP IS UPDATED! File size is down to around 50MB - which compresses on Workshop to around 16MB it says. I haven't been able to test it yet on a server, to see if new players can join yet. My apologies - I left .psd files in that Rudy sent.
Worthy - you can make a version and send it to me before I do the following update.
Does everyone want to revise the map as Pandademic suggested, to line up the rooms & portals to the original flow chart? I think that will be the next large update I attempt, unless there are objections.
As a simple casual player, I would vote for the map to be as Pandemic suggested. While the crisscrossing portals would add to the mayhem...it might make it a bit too frustrating to navigate.
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I feel like realigning the map's layout to the original flow chart kinda defies the purpose of having portals that show you where you go. I personally prefer the chaos; it's fun map after all. Nothing wrong with actually learning a map.
I agree with WorthyRival, Transit and Lava would benefit from a rotation as well. (If you decide to change the layout). But probably don't have to worry about that yet. Once the rooms are all done and people get a chance to really play test it we'll find out if a confusing map is too confusing, and have a plan to fall back on. I actually quite like the idea of keeping it confusing. Would never ever work for a regular map, but combat might get away with it.
I'll go over Lava's surround as well today. I've never tinkered with the commander visible stuff before, so time to learn.
Removed non playable surround from mini map for gravity and Lava falls
Added CommanderInvisible Group
@Pandademic - For Lava falls if you want to know how I hid parts of your room. go to your room and click commanderinvisible group and find the faces highlighted. anything added into that group will not be rendered in the mini-map or in the commander camera.
This can also be done for props by changing setting in the props menu Commander Alpha 0 all props are create as Commander Alpha 1 which means they are rendered changing this to 0 means they are not rendered in the mini map or commander camera (top down view)
Thanks Worthy! CommanderInvisible is updated and looking good.
Today I've made major changes:
- Early draft of the welcome image is in the ready room. I did not make the credits scroll but at least the texture flickers.
- I've updated the layout to the above recommendations. There were some messed up textures, but I have tried to correct most obvious errors. Worthy - Gravity Hub I just centered all - I think that works?
Any additional comments about the layout now would be a good time. If you see a texture error please let me know or fix it on your own and send me the file (one at time though so we don't lose changes).
Question in Lava Cave: should I have the portals going to marine side switch, so that they don't cross like that? I also would center circus more but I'm nervous about moving it.
@WhiteDevil hopefully you haven't done too much and can move the room to the new location? Great work on the crystal model.
Lastly - the Workshop is a piece of shit. The map is uploaded but I'm having trouble testing it on my normal server. Let me know if you have any problems.
Side note: haha they added cards for NS2 and you earn them while mapping. Awesome. It appears you can earn all cards just by idling in the right game.
Edit: oops I thought I renamed those two rooms. Oh well since doing the minimap is kind of a pain I'll wait until all rooms are in to do the next version - including switching the portals in Lava Cave.
@darkseraph yes those blues in lava should get swapped eventually, no reason not to. Nice work on the update. The lines going to marine start are the only ones not precisely on the portal locations, but it looks like that keeps them from crossing any others, so either way. The map looks great.
So close to finished, I'm really excited to see this project in action.
Comments
No clue - I can do either. MS doesn't have a name so I kept it that way, but I really have no preference. Church of Onos is fine too! It actually should still be clear due to coloring.
That would be awesome! Some sort of wormhole-like effect when you use a teleport would be ridiculously cool. Or do you mean a setting in the teleport_trigger that would create the props used for the portal effect?
I guess I should add you on the line with Howser and list teleport_trigger or extra entities mod or something - clearly the map wouldn't exist without your work.
Edit: Got a preview of WhiteDevil's concept and it will look cool and fit well. I'll let him share with you if he wants.
The billboard looks great. But maybe overkill on the portal font. Maybe just use it twice, once in the name (change to blue), and once in the word orange?
^ This is the map as is, with yellow lines indicating connected portals. A bit of a mess, and IMO this would be a big turnoff when introduced to the map in game. Could be cleaned up by bending the lines and ignoring exact portal locations, but I think that would actually be more confusing for new players.
^ This is the theoretical layout of the map. It ignores the geography of portals relative to their rooms, and ignores the geography of rooms relative to one another. This is what the map looks like if you don't have the map. Much easier to understand at a glance.
^ And here's how it could look if we adjust the actual layout to match the theoretical one.
As well as rearranging the rooms, Gravity and Gorge Tunnel are rotated 180 degrees, and the outputs of the blue portals in Marine Start, as well as the blue portals in Lava have been swapped. That's all.
I know moving the rooms threatens to mess up a lot of textures, especially rotating Gravitry, so maybe we could just apply this to the map overlay, and not make actual changes to the map itself? By the looks of the overlay for co_stargate, I assume it's as easy as replacing the overlay file in the workshop folder. I'm not terribly savvy with this stuff, but as I understand it this can be done by making the above changes in editor to generate a new overlay, or simply use a revised version of the graphic I made here.
Related question: is there any limit to how far the rooms can be spaced?
I suggest that Lava falls and Gravity hub surround should be put in to the Commander Invisible group to not be rendered in to the minimap. Also the "credits" could be made in to scrolling texture, I think there should be a shader for this (not sure though)
Meh I don't really care. If it's really that confusing we can just line up all of the rooms nicely and draw lines so they know where they are going. Being a little 'lost' was intended to be part of the map and we haven't been able to test with that many new players yet due to the download issue, but I really don't have any serious preference at this point. Texture lock mostly works so if everyone really wants I'll just match the original flow chart and not the layout. Though making this change would have been much easier when we were discussing the concept!
The further you space out the room the less helpful the minimap will be, as the larger the minimap is the smaller you appear on it.
I'm so confused how many new players you guys have tested this with. When try on my server new players are unable to play as they have not previously subscribed to the map and downloaded it and get an error when it launches. I have an email out that I'm hoping to get some help with this issue, but I haven't been able to really test the map with new players yet.
Regardless - whatever. Sure we can move the rooms, which I kinda prefer as the rooms connecting to MS for example feel more 'marine' than 'alien'. But it doesn't really matter, I can also go through and change all of the portal destinations and then the portal effects again to match that. Someone just decide and let me know.
On the download issue, I cannot offer any help unfortunately. Seeing much larger mods downloading with no problem (NS1 classsic) I am not sure if the size is the issue.
I encountered this "file not found" issue only once, when I have published new mod with different privacy setting than "public". Changing it to "public" solved the issue, but took few hours to Workshop to catch up.
We'll see. We likely will still want it to change if you guys are feeling that it's confusing.
ns2c is 30MB. We hit this issue after I added the portal stuff you gave me. My guess is the max is around 50-60MB. We're currently at 85MB. Actually Workshop only says 36MB though 85MB is in the output folder.
Second draft:
DarkSeraph: decreasing the portal image resolution is probably the smartest way to lower the space used. With all the distortion, cinematics and such you could probably get away with them being 128*. But i'd try them at 512* first.
While the map is a fun map, Personally I feel if you want the map to be taken seriously as a fun combat map the mini-map needs to be clear on the direction you're travelling and a few rooms should be moved to line up and a few portals moved like in the picture above.
I'd also recommend if using that picture above as a map rotating lava cave and transit 90 degrees clockwise.
I preferred the word "portals" to have the portal image in it, rather than just the one word orange.
My reasons Both the Blue and Orange "Portals lead to" instructions are visually clear.
I also loved the idea of Rudy's for the scrolling texture for the credits.
I agree the surround should not appear on the mini map - I make a pass at it
Looks great so far.
Worthy this won't affect you changing the map, in case you decide to make another revision.
Also it sounds like people really want to straighten out the map to the original flow diagram. I am a bit concerned about moving everything though; especially rotating them.
Hehe didnt mean scale :P meant file size
Worthy - you can make a version and send it to me before I do the following update.
Does everyone want to revise the map as Pandademic suggested, to line up the rooms & portals to the original flow chart? I think that will be the next large update I attempt, unless there are objections.
Especially with how fast paced Combat can be
This map looks REALLY fun, cant wait for release!
I'll go over Lava's surround as well today. I've never tinkered with the commander visible stuff before, so time to learn.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32942522/ns2_co_portals.level
Removed non playable surround from mini map for gravity and Lava falls
Added CommanderInvisible Group
@Pandademic - For Lava falls if you want to know how I hid parts of your room. go to your room and click commanderinvisible group and find the faces highlighted. anything added into that group will not be rendered in the mini-map or in the commander camera.
This can also be done for props by changing setting in the props menu Commander Alpha 0 all props are create as Commander Alpha 1 which means they are rendered changing this to 0 means they are not rendered in the mini map or commander camera (top down view)
Today I've made major changes:
- Early draft of the welcome image is in the ready room. I did not make the credits scroll but at least the texture flickers.
- I've updated the layout to the above recommendations. There were some messed up textures, but I have tried to correct most obvious errors. Worthy - Gravity Hub I just centered all - I think that works?
Any additional comments about the layout now would be a good time. If you see a texture error please let me know or fix it on your own and send me the file (one at time though so we don't lose changes).
Question in Lava Cave: should I have the portals going to marine side switch, so that they don't cross like that? I also would center circus more but I'm nervous about moving it.
@WhiteDevil hopefully you haven't done too much and can move the room to the new location? Great work on the crystal model.
Lastly - the Workshop is a piece of shit. The map is uploaded but I'm having trouble testing it on my normal server. Let me know if you have any problems.
Side note: haha they added cards for NS2 and you earn them while mapping. Awesome. It appears you can earn all cards just by idling in the right game.
Edit: oops I thought I renamed those two rooms. Oh well since doing the minimap is kind of a pain I'll wait until all rooms are in to do the next version - including switching the portals in Lava Cave.
@darkseraph yes those blues in lava should get swapped eventually, no reason not to. Nice work on the update. The lines going to marine start are the only ones not precisely on the portal locations, but it looks like that keeps them from crossing any others, so either way. The map looks great.
So close to finished, I'm really excited to see this project in action.
Some more detailing.
Collision Geo.
etc etc.
File here https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32942522/ns2_co_portals.level
Also I think the Skybox entity is lost couldn't find it.