Concede and the satisfaction factor
Ohnojojo
Join Date: 2011-08-01 Member: 113400Members
Join Date: 2011-08-01 Member: 113400Members
I think the biggest problem with the concede feature is that it isn't satisfying.
But I think this could be easily remedied with some minor aesthetic changes.
In DoTA2 when an enemy concedes, you get to see the enemy's ancient explode.
In Smite when an enemy concedes, you get to see the enemy's minotaur fall and die.
In NS2 when an enemy concedes, you get a victory banner.
Its clear to me why concede isn't satisfying, there isn't any satisfaction factor.
My idea is that if an enemy team concedes, some visual cinematic should play out.
For example:
If a marine team concedes, all structures are recycled and the marines are beaconed to the ready room.
If an alien team concedes, all the alien players commit xenocide, damaging/killing nearby marines, and alien structures melt away into bacterium.
What would this solution do?
It makes the concede feature feel more epic. Marines are evacuating, so they recycle to conserve resources and all troops are teleported out of the battlefield, a tactical retreat.
Aliens explode, attempting to deal as much damage as they can before they and the structures all devolve into bacterium before commiting cell suicide.
Its simple, cinematic, satisfying and potentially easy to implement
But I think this could be easily remedied with some minor aesthetic changes.
In DoTA2 when an enemy concedes, you get to see the enemy's ancient explode.
In Smite when an enemy concedes, you get to see the enemy's minotaur fall and die.
In NS2 when an enemy concedes, you get a victory banner.
Its clear to me why concede isn't satisfying, there isn't any satisfaction factor.
My idea is that if an enemy team concedes, some visual cinematic should play out.
For example:
If a marine team concedes, all structures are recycled and the marines are beaconed to the ready room.
If an alien team concedes, all the alien players commit xenocide, damaging/killing nearby marines, and alien structures melt away into bacterium.
What would this solution do?
It makes the concede feature feel more epic. Marines are evacuating, so they recycle to conserve resources and all troops are teleported out of the battlefield, a tactical retreat.
Aliens explode, attempting to deal as much damage as they can before they and the structures all devolve into bacterium before commiting cell suicide.
Its simple, cinematic, satisfying and potentially easy to implement
Comments
I've said it before though, concede is not the problem. People concede because the game "isn't satisfying" anymore. Concede just ends what has become a painful - and UNfun - experience for one or both teams.
Heck, I was in a game when we were the winning team and we conceded since the other team couldn't get their act together and do it. They thanked us profusely in the ready room.
What needs to be done is that the game should be changed so that the teams rarely find themselves in a situation where they feel they need to concede. If marines losing their second tech point means they have lost the game, then end it right then and there. If losing your first three extractors/harvesters means your team has little hope to recover then end the game right there.
*OR*
Fix the game so that those circumstances are harder to attain and/or easier to recover from. If a team felt they could recover from a setback, they wouldn't concede.
But it would also be good if conceding were more satisfying.
"Involuntary actions (like forced beacon) are usually frowned upon."
Well I don't see the big problem with a cinematic forced beacon at the end of a game after the victory/defeat banner has appeared. I mean you're going to be in the ready room in like 10 seconds anyway.
"I've said it before though, concede is not the problem. People concede because the game "isn't satisfying" anymore. Concede just ends what has become a painful - and UNfun - experience for one or both teams."
I respectfully disagree with you there. Sometimes concedes happen because a game is no longer fun and/or has been going on too long. Sometimes it happens because a team realizes they can't win and want to save everybody some time and energy. Sometimes concedes occur besides of rage quitters.
But in my experience, concedes have most often occured because a team lost 1 or 2 tech points. After which, 1-5 minutes later the team concedes because the opposing team has map control.
I don't agree with your suggestions on how to change the game either.
You are right though, games that end in conceding probably weren't fun/satisfying up to that point.
But as it stands now, concede isn't satisfying, whether you're winning or losing.
My suggestion simply adds a little visual flare and satisfaction to an otherwise unsatisfactory game.
Your suggestion requires a complex overhaul of all the gameplay mechanics and balance in order to reach a goal that is probably unattainable for the sake of fixing a single minor non-gameplay related feature.... in short, lets be realistic here.
Agreed, Savant does make a good point however concede does need to be more satisfying, for both sides.
Do you have any suggestions on how to achieve this?
Any comments about my suggestion? or Savants?
Any and all ideas are welcome, hopefully a developer will pick up some of the ideas that people will have come up with in this forum.
Although, from lurking on this forums for awhile, I've noticed that a lot of suggestions posted usually make problems worse or create other issues or are unrealistic given the small staff of developers and their long list of things to do with much higher priority.
...Just saying, suggestions should be realistic, simple and solve more problems than they create.
Take a look at this thread.
I think this is a genius idea.
Maybe we could combine our ideas lol.
After marines concede, the game enters a 30 second period where marines move slower and cannot attack, while the alien team moves quickly and deals extra damage. At the end of the 30 seconds, a banner appears reading "Emergency Evacuation" or "Tactical Retreat" and any marines that are alive get beaconed to the ready room and any structures that are alive recycle themselves.
After aliens concede, the game enters a 30 second period where aliens move slower and cannot attack, while the marine team moves quickly and deals extra damage. At the end of the 30 seconds, a banner appears reading "Apoptosis Commencing" or "Bacterium in Remission" and any aliens that are alive commit xenocide and any structures that are alive commit suicide.
I think thats going too far. There are a lot of legitimate reasons to concede a game.
Imagine playing DoTA or LoL or Smite or Starcraft II without a concede feature...
Just imagine it...
Thats what you're asking for.
If concede wasn't a feature, people would simply disconnect from the game, find a new server, or go to the ready room and draw out the game even longer.
I do agree however that concedes happen waaay too often. I miss seeing the last hive fall and scream.
I think my suggestion gives at least some of that epic/satisfying feelings back into the game.
Yeah I know, I've read those threads before. A lot of great ideas and bad ideas in them.
I just wanted to give my own two cents on how concede should work based on what I've read from other people's posts.
I think the biggest underlying problem that most players are experiencing is that conceding is not satisfying.
You get a little victory or defeat banner and thats it...
It leaves the player wanting more.
It leaves the player wondering why this is even a feature.
Or why did my team concede?
Or how come concede can't be disable?
And etc.
Lets answer the obvious question
Concede is necessary. If conceding wasn't an option, people would wait in the readyroom or find a new server anyway. Its a realistic fact that concedes will happen, so how can we make the act/experience of conceding more satisfying?
I wouldn't be opposed to an option that allowed you to vote for no concede.
infact... this game needs a lot of voting features...
votekick
voteban
votemap
votecommander
voterandom
votenoconcede
Some servers have these features, but they really should be standard.
This has become the "in" thing to do. I've been in at least 5 games now in the last week or so where our team has completely stomped the opposing side, and we voluntarily conceded when it became apparent that they were going to F4 and abandon the game. They had already started to lose players, we were in auto-balance, and so we just saved them from trying to even organize a "vote concede".
Marine comm selling IPs is always satisfying for aliens. They both win and get to kill everyone/destroy CC.
when a team concedes .... the round instantly restarts
if the team that conceded was aliens ... then they can only run around as eggs
if the team that conceded was marines ... then they can round around with no weapons
the winning team gets to keep all its liveforms/weapons and they get to HUNT the losing team
there will be a 2 minute count down until everyone is taken to the ready room.
and the backround music should change to this
Concede = start all over with nothing, LMG or skulks. No, thank you.
With concede, you don't actually WIN any games, you just convince the other team not to play anymore, which is not satisfying in any way but a total waste of time.
Why is everyone so fixed on winning the round? so that you see "Marines Win" banner for 3 seconds and start all over? Big whoop.
Fun comes from playing entire round, with a crushing victory or miserable defeat - that is exactly what all games are all about, that's what the winning and losing is about.
Sorry I'll find a new server or game to play rather than watch or take part in a 2 minute game of hide and seek. Besides there are too many vents for aliens to hide in that marines can't reach with out jps.
In any of the hundred or so concede threads people have made I'm yet to see a better solution than what we have. It's like people against concede have forgotten the mass F4ing and killing of servers that occurred pre concede.
I just came to think of something. Maybe the stockpiling of res contributes to the one-sidedness? Perhaps there should be a limit? For instance max 75 res for the Alien players, and whatever they evolve into limits their individual stockpile (so for a player that goes Onos it's 75 - 75 = 0, and for a Gorge it's 75 - 10 = 65). Team res on other hand is set to a fixed limit equivalent to the most expensive tech/structure available. I'm not exactly sure what that would achieve, but maybe it will make a constant res flow throughout the game more important and it will mean taking out higher lifeforms/players with expensive equipment gets more important; not resulting in instantly "trading" a long-lived Fade for an Onos.
Such a change would obviously make it easier for Marines to turtle, so the Aliens would need some anti-turtling tech (improving Xenocide effectiveness against structures if nothing else).
This should be the music:
But on a serious note, the "hiding in vents" crap was bad in NS, we don't need it in NS2.