Gorges get telepathic control over the Bait Ball

CrushaKCrushaK Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167195Members, NS2 Playtester Posts: 1,182 Advanced user
The problem with the Bait Ball is that it doesn't fly really far and is slow. Being able to charge it would be a first step to make it better.

But there may be an even more interesting alternative:

Let the Gorge be able to still control the Bait Ball as long as the player is still holding the Primary Fire key down. Moving the mouse then would add some velocity to the Bait Ball in the respective direction: MouseUp increases velocity in the direction away from the Gorge. MouseDown gets the Bait Ball closer to the Gorge again. MouseLeft and MouseRight move it to the respective sides.
The Ball can be adjusted in flight to accelerate or hit marines who try to dodge it, as well as keep rolling around on the ground after it landed. Babblers will keep following the Ball as it moves around.

You may limit the control to a certain range away from the Gorge, so it can't send Babbler armies blindly around the map from the base. Requiring LoS to the Ball in order to control it might be another way to limit it, but the intuitiveness of that would need to be tested. Being able to roll the Ball over short distances around a corner would be nice as well after all.
You might even consider to let the Ball attach to marines as with a direct hit if it rolls against them on the ground (in which case you could allow marines to shoot the Ball into pieces before it reaches them to deny such behavior).
Suggestions:
Tech Path of Hive actually upgrades the Hive itself
Give Gorges telepathic control over their Bait Ball for Overlord-style commanding of Babblers

And please allow to turn rooms into emergency-lit or dark versions if infestations grows over an unbuilt or damaged power node socket.

Comments

  • yehawmcgrawyehawmcgraw Join Date: 2012-09-16 Member: 159694Members Posts: 169 Advanced user
    To me it would be simplest if the things just jumped really far and fast in the direction of a healspray or spit. You wouldn't need a clunky baitball system ( '2'->'4'->'click' (repeat)). Granted if it was attached to healspray then you could no longer heal without attaching your babblers to the target.

    If you attach it to spit, you would mark a target and the things could go towards it as a goal, even far away (many 'hops' required). This would be problematic in combat as you need to hit the marine directly else the babblers would go towards a target in the background (i.e. a wall). If you hit once, you wouldn't want to spit anymore for fear of losing the hard-to-hit target, thus you would practically lose the abilty to spit in combat, and your spit is likely to be more effective than the babblers in the first place...

    So yes attach it to healspray. Heal spray and they all make one large leap forward, attacking whatever is in front or and certainly anything that has been damaged. Something about spewing healspray and having all your babblers stream over your shoulders past your camera just sounds appealing. To get the babblers to attach to you, use the 'heal me' bind ('q'). Once they're on you, you should still be able to shoot them off.

    And ffs please get rid of the lifespan. There's an emotional loss of ownership if you know they are going to die, and for me are drastically less fun.
  • CrushaKCrushaK Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167195Members, NS2 Playtester Posts: 1,182 Advanced user
    The 2-4-click doesn't relate to the Bait Ball. That is more an accessibility problem for spawning Babblers, but you only need to perform that combination once because you can build stuff in a row with the Gorge.

    A possible workaround to make things more accessible would be to quickly switch into the Babbler Egg build mode by pressing the USE key when having the Bait Ball selected. It's not like there is much other use for the USE key on the alien side except for entering the Hive, so this rebind would help Gorges a bit and makes the spawning less intrusive.


    You are turning this into a general Bait Ball topic, though. This one is about the suggestion in the OP, i.e. the added functionality [the current one is still retained by simply not holding down the primary fire then, so you can still throw an uncontrolled Bait Ball as usual] of giving the Gorge some minion control similar to how games like Overlord or Pikmin handle it: you hold down a button to move the target marker around in an area around you and your minions will go there and perform context-sensitive actions based on stuff that is close to the target marker as they move. Just that the target marker is visible in this case and needs to be refired after you let go of it once.
    Suggestions:
    Tech Path of Hive actually upgrades the Hive itself
    Give Gorges telepathic control over their Bait Ball for Overlord-style commanding of Babblers

    And please allow to turn rooms into emergency-lit or dark versions if infestations grows over an unbuilt or damaged power node socket.
  • ritualsacrificeritualsacrifice Join Date: 2012-11-14 Member: 171148Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 709 Advanced user
    I think the best alternative is to get rid of the bait ball tbh. Make it so they stay attached to whatever you're putting them on until they die, and have them follow spit. Ideally, the spit would give them an "Attack/Move" command, where it tells them to attack the first thing they see but to follow the spit until they do. The bait ball mechanic is just really clunky.. I've never been playing gorge and had a moment that the bait ball made me have fun. It just feels really silly in game.
    sHawke_NativeSolidSpider
  • meatmachinemeatmachine South England Join Date: 2013-01-06 Member: 177858Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 1,551 Advanced user
    I think the easiest way to make babblers a little more viable using the existing bait ball system would just be to have it so you dont have to hit a target using the bait ball for babblers to attack- Currently it's way too slow and short ranged to be of any use other than for babbler armour or attacking structures (I do love setting 9 babblers on a comm chair in the fray of a rush, you can rack up a surprising amount of damage while marines are distracted!). If the babblers were able to kind of use common sense and attack any marines within a meter or two of wherever the bait ball lands that'd be nice.

    Or EVEN have the bait ball weapon select branch out to another set of orders for babblers to follow wherever the bait ball lands, like "attach" for aliens AND structures, "ambush" to get them to jump and cling to the walls/ ceilings in the immediate vicinity and await LOS with a marine to jump out and attack, or "follow" to get them to follow an alien into enermy territory whereupon they will just start attacking whatever they see first.

    Just throwing ideas out there. A telepathic bait ball as described in the OP would be kind of cool too but the extremely limited use of babblers would still remain.
    Too weird to live, yet too rare to die
    sHawke_NativeSolidSpider
  • RadmanRadman Join Date: 2013-04-05 Member: 184656Members Posts: 126
    Telepathy is currently reserved for the upcoming Protoss Intelligent Aliens team.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,780 Advanced user
    edited May 2013
    Radman wrote: »
    Telepathy is currently reserved for the upcoming Protoss Intelligent Aliens team.

    Kharaa are super intelligent IMHO. I mean they are trying to exterminate us, the most conniving/smelly/backstabbing/aggressor/polluting creatures that have stepped into this universe :P

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" 

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly

    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue | 102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting

    sHawke_Native
  • RadmanRadman Join Date: 2013-04-05 Member: 184656Members Posts: 126
    That isn't intelligent then. That is common sense.
    sHawke_Native
  • Samus1111111Samus1111111 Join Date: 2012-08-07 Member: 154930Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 268
    Radman wrote: »
    That isn't intelligent then. That is common sense.

    Yes, but in today's world, common sense requires a great amount of intelligence to understand and implement ;).
    sHawke_NativeSolidSpider
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 4,983 mod
    Radman wrote: »
    Telepathy is currently reserved for the upcoming Protoss Intelligent Aliens team.
    But I want my Gorgepathy nao!
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,655 Advanced user
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Radman wrote: »
    Telepathy is currently reserved for the upcoming Protoss Intelligent Aliens team.

    Kharaa are super intelligent IMHO. I mean they are trying to exterminate us, the most conniving/smelly/backstabbing/aggressor/polluting creatures that have stepped into this universe :P

    Nuh-uh! Aliens dumb, humans superior.
    To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to play Natural Selection 2. The gameplay is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of military strategy and advanced mathematics you won't even win a single game. Theres also the game's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into the game. The maps and artwork draw heavily from Riddley Scott's Alien franchise, for instance. The players understand this stuff, they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depth of the game, to realise that it's not just great, that it also says something about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Natural Selection 2 truly ARE idiots. of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in the Marines' existential catchphrase "how do I get to be so good", which itself is a cryptic reference to the high degree of intelligence required to play the game as intended. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion when spectating a game. What fools... how I pity them. And, yes, by the way, i DO have a Fade tatoo. And no, you cannot see it. it's for the ladies' eyes only, and even then they have to demonstrate that they are within 50 hive skill points of my own (preferable lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid.
  • AngeluszAngelusz Harmonic entropist Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18072Members, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester Posts: 2,601 mod
    ... There's an emotional loss of ownership if you know they are going to die, and for me are drastically less fun.

    I really want to highlight this little gem, as it strikes exactly the chord that I feel when playing gorge. You want your babies to stay alive when you're gorging; stay alive, or die fighting.

    As for the rest, I agree that the bait ball is a bit clunky, but there's too many problems with attaching the pheromones to Spit/healspray. If you heal a fellow alien, you instantly lose your babblers because they attach.

    If one of those two, go for spit. The only way this would work, i.m.o., is when they would go for a marine that you hit and stay on him until you hit another marine/structure/alien. If you hit the wall, they stay on target. If there is no target, they just follow.

    I'm not sure if that's viable though, I can immediately come up with downsides, such as not being able to direct them forward, or have them guard something.
  • CalegoCalego Join Date: 2013-01-24 Member: 181848Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 763 Advanced user
    What if they just made the baitball like parasite? Hitscan marker for babblers to charge at. No lobbing necessary. I mean, it doesn't do any damage so it's not like it'll be spammable.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,780 Advanced user
    edited May 2013
    Squishpoke wrote: »
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Radman wrote: »
    Telepathy is currently reserved for the upcoming Protoss Intelligent Aliens team.

    Kharaa are super intelligent IMHO. I mean they are trying to exterminate us, the most conniving/smelly/backstabbing/aggressor/polluting creatures that have stepped into this universe :P

    Nuh-uh! Aliens dumb, humans superior.

    This means WAR... Wait just one minute here, so this is how it started!

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" 

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly

    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue | 102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting

  • reeqlreeql Join Date: 2013-05-05 Member: 185125Members Posts: 60
    I would like to see something like laser sight pointer. Where do you point, there babblers would go. Ofcourse style of this laser poinnter should be made in khara style (some sorf of gas, fog or other stuff). I think that solution would be easy to implement and would be very useful.
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