Why not silence?

SliceSlice Join Date: 2008-03-19 Member: 63903Members
I jumped on the bandwagon with the Gorgeous update. Played a bunch the last week and soaked up the Kahmannder tutorials I could find. One thing I noticed is the majority of pubs I play on always go with Carapace or Celerity first / second upgrades. Occasionally someone will get cloaking, but hardly ever do I see Silence selected early game or at all.

I'm thinking that Silence is a huge advantage, as a marine, you can find skulks way easier by listening where they're coming from long before you see them. I don't like cloaking because it encourages the team to move slowly.

I recently hopped in the hive for a few games and I've been going with Silence first and Celerity second. My thought process is that you play skulk the most till mid game and I want those skulks to be silent and fast early.

So far it has worked pretty well. Are there issues with Silence that I'm not aware of?



  • WheeeeWheeee Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13713Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    because it forces you to get shade hive. going shade hive means that you lose out on much needed abilities mid-game for your higher life forms - either adrenaline or carapace for your fades and onos.
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Silence is one of the best and most underrated abilities ever.
  • SixtyWattManSixtyWattMan Join Date: 2004-09-05 Member: 31404Members
    edited March 2013
    Silence is an amazing upgrade. Unfortunately, Shades suck in comparison to Crags/Shifts and Carapace is absolutely mandatory to have by second hive. I personally think Carapace is the best first upgrade.
  • Angry ChildAngry Child Join Date: 2012-12-05 Member: 174256Members
    You always need crag hive, but I think (unless you are playing in some 24 player server where you need eggs) shift is swappable with shade hive. Silence is very valuable with players who know how to utilize it, celerity sucks anyway once you break into combat, and adrenaline isn't really all that vital to be honest. Shift too ovverrated
  • derWalterderWalter Join Date: 2008-10-29 Member: 65323Members
    edited March 2013
    in the beginning skulks are lurking and ambushing the marines at/after the first resnode.

    if they can here them they have to stop building = winning time,
    f they dont stop the get bitten, if the skulks going for ambush,
    hey wont be heard anyways.

    carapace brings you the win and is a basic upgrade for all the other lifeforms.
    as fade rocks with silence, the lerk who comes first suck a lot,
    ecause he is a distance shooter which you can SEE now all the time.
    and once in infight, silence dosent matter anymore.
    the lerk can glide without making sound,
    so he is quiet anyways most of the time.
    but so important for the alienteam to cover more ground.

    and last but not least:
    you want to have onos with cara and cele.
    most of the time you need the onos before you have a third hive rdy.
    without cara it goes down soooo quickly,
    without cele its like a big unmoveable rock in the middle of a room - also insta dead.

    so those both upgrades are really crucial for an onos.

    and silence dosent change a thing for onos,
    because everything around it is still quaking and shaking,
    so the marines know anyways... ^^

    and read this thread:

    There is the reason why you go cara first instead of cele,
    second upgrade silence is ... well thats something you can try out :)
  • AurOn2AurOn2 COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS! Australia Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
    Not sure if to awesome his post or disagree.
    Ok, it's awesome, but i disagree with most of it. >.<
  • tarquinbbtarquinbb Join Date: 2012-11-03 Member: 166314Members
    edited March 2013
    i don't even know if carapace is significantly more effective; the problem is that whenever you die you wonder "if i had carapace..."

    silence itself is incredibly good not only for stealth but because it allows you to hear marines over your own racket. it effectively amplifies the marine sounds and increases your awareness.
  • gnoarchgnoarch Join Date: 2012-08-29 Member: 156802Members, Reinforced - Gold
    Good khamms go crag/shift first and shift/crag second.

    Bad khamms go cloak.

    Silence could be very nice, but bad khamms do not know this and just get cloak. Good khamms know that silence is good, but they dont get shade first because it is really bad.

    In NS1 silence was a movement upgrade which imho made ALOT more sense than putting it into shade. I'd be all out for giving silence to shift and adding a "scent of fear" like ability to shade.
  • CrushaKCrushaK Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167195Members, NS2 Playtester
    I am curious to see how the situation changes if some of sewlek's balance mod changes make it into the main game. The egg hatch ability from Shifts has been moved to the main hive there, Shifts are merely the means to teleport something in it's radius to any patch of infestation on the map. That means you no longer need the Shift Hive to prevent egg-locking and fast forward spawns with Shifts are nerfed as well since you can only teleport one egg at a time with a cooldown.
  • deathst4rdeathst4r Join Date: 2003-08-10 Member: 19365Members
    Squishpoke wrote: »
    I tried not to read the above post in a sing-songy voice. I failed.

    Yep. Walter, have you been drinking lately? :D

    I'd say Crag Hive is an absolute must either as first or as second hive. If Crag should be your third hive, then well... gg.

    The viable (but not the only) options are the following, I suppose (excluding cyst and harvester placement and the according res-costs):

    1. Crag Hive first (Carapace), Shift Hive second (Celerity and Adrenaline).
    2. Shift Hive first (Celerity), Crag Hive second (Carapace) [research of Adrenaline depends on the game].
    3. Drop fast second Hive first, upgrade Leap, then Crag (Carapace)
    4. Drop fast second Hive first, evolve first Hive to Shift Hive, drop a Shift at the second Hive to speed up healing, Leap, evolve second Hive to Crag (Carapace)
    5. Shade Hive first (Silence), Crag Hive (Carapace) second.
    6. Crag Hive (Carapace) first, Shade Hive second (Silence).

    Best regards,
  • KhazeKhaze Join Date: 2006-12-12 Member: 59031Members
    Speed is life. Most of the time that means Celerity, but I can live with Leap + Cara aswell. Point being, if you don't go with Shift for Cele and Hatch, you better drop that second hive for Leap and more eggs ASAP.

    The benefit of Camo and Silence is marginal on it's own. Combined with other structures and abilities they can be a force to be reckoned with, but I don't see them ever being the "better" choice. Sure you can win with Shade Hives, but why work so hard when you can do it easier with the others? Not to mention Shift and Crag upgrades are direct counters for marine upgrades. Shade upgrades are utility. End game stuff.
  • Not SureNot Sure Join Date: 2013-01-06 Member: 177758Members
    You sacrifice too much to get silence first.
  • HalfcentaurHalfcentaur Join Date: 2013-01-30 Member: 182612Members
    The issue doesn't surround upgrading your skulks. Silence and celerity is a great combo for skulks.
    But Crag upgrades are required for your higher lifeforms, otherwise your teammates are going to waste a lot of their res. You need adrenaline/celerity/cara for those fades/onos otherwise they're pointless. I mean, camo/silence are essentially pointless for Onos in most cases.
  • EucomolhamasEucomolhamas Join Date: 2013-03-10 Member: 183841Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I've been on a server with a few cool guys lately, and we've always gone camo first, it hasn't been the best option, but by far the most fun because of the new more skill based camo + all that ambushing and stuff.

    So yeah, cara/cele aint a must for a first hive since fades are really deadly with silence which makes up for the lack of shift/crag hive in the mid-game.
  • BLACKSasquatchBLACKSasquatch Join Date: 2013-03-04 Member: 183675Members
    You guys seem to forget silence's greatest buff; whenever you attack an enemy structure with silence on your life-form marines won't get a structure under attack message.
  • FlipperFlipper Join Date: 2012-08-08 Member: 155120Members
    You lose out on crags for healing new hives or shifts for spawning eggs in big games. This is huge since shades are fairly useless.

    Carapace is better vs good marines while silence excels a lot more vs derpy marines. Same goes for skulking, good skulks can use silence well while bad skulks benefit more from carapace.

    Shade hive and silence is a much better second hive upgrade just because it doesn't give the same bang for the buck as a crag hive early game.
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