Pistol Script - Another discussion
CyberKun
Join Date: 2013-02-02 Member: 182733Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2013-02-02 Member: 182733Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Please for all that is holy in this game, make the Pistol automatic and give it a .16 fire rate or the like. This will still be fast enough to kill a Slulk in under a second and it matches an average mouse click speed. This will stop the insta-killing from the Pistol script that doesn't add anything good to the game.
To add something more to the thread, anyone disagrees with what I said or has something else to say?
To add something more to the thread, anyone disagrees with what I said or has something else to say?
Comments
the same should happen in this game, imo, losing engages because of that script is dumb, there's a huge difference between people who can shot really fast and people who are blatantly using a script.
He is saying he is loosing fight because he is not a script user.
I dont think pistol should be made automatic,but i think something should be done so that scrips wont help you(maybe nerf the maximum firerate of the pistol,in a way that script users would get screwed but everyone else wont even notice it).
basically what madd0g said
End this script / macro nonsense.
I dont liek the idea of a full auto 10 round pistol with ridiculous fire rate because a) it dows not feel like a pistol and b) it increses required skill even more because noobs will empty their clip in less than 1 sec without hitting anything...
tf2 has auto-reload, random critical hits, random damage spread and damage fall off. not to mention the self-moderated network rates, which precipitates into issues with extremely inconsistent interp/hit reg. it's an entirely different game with emphasis on different classes instead of ns2's emphasis on different weapons/lifeforms.
assault rifle is automatic. wtf is the point in automatic pistol if it were to effectively become just an extension to your assault rifle clip?
it's not only how fast you can click your finger, but how you can track your mouse while clicking. it's an entirely different technique to holding down the mouse button and tracking (typical assault rifle). there are different shooting techniques; several old school FPS pro gamers would bind the 'fire' command to the keyboard to gain a slight edge... between AR, shotgun and pistol - we have the main techniques covered.
Not really, fire rates exists in pretty much any FPS. Including NS2, else we would see the same scripts making the shotgun fire like an automatic! But we don't, since it has a max fire rate.
I agree, but the point is almost no one else considers clicking fast to be a skill check, not even PC hardware companies who are happy to sell mice with built in functionality to negate any such attempts. Because so many players will be casually cheating it's a bad idea to put that into a competitive, non-local multiplayer game. It's like building a game relying on players not changing their gamma, manipulating their network connection quality or turning up the volume and use headphones to gain an edge. It doesn't work.
You misunderstood everything said completely. The TF2 pistol has a max fire rate, making it work just like a slower rifle. That's reason being just what he said, it's not possible to prevent scripting or macros, hence the max fire rate.
well if the ROF was capped at a high level that is realistically achievable with practiced/agile fingers then i don't think any more action would be needed.
if someone has arthritic fingers and needs a 'rapid fire' mouse, so be it. as for healthy persons, i think it's punishment enough to live in the shame of needing an external functionality to click at the required pace.
i'm sure of two things:
1) scripts enabling you to have almost infinite ROF are silly.
2) automatic pistol is in principle the same as assault rifle - eliminating the 'repeatedly click while tracking' technique and thus making marine combat more shallow.
in essence: it needs a limit, but not such a limit which turns the pistol into a shotgun.
...he said the TF2 pistol went through the same era and valve decided to up the max fire rate so non script users could go auto anyway, eliminating the advantage of using a script, I presume, never played TFC or TF2. It is possible to prevent scripting, just like he said, by having a max fire rate, the pistol and shotgun are both one click = one shot but the shotgun has a pump animation/fire rate on it stopping people from scripting 3 SG rounds in a second...just like they could do with pistol...obviously not as long.
I remember NS 1 put in some code I believe that only accepted 3 input commands at any one time, at least I remember all the pistol/bhop script macros only have 3 waits in them, most people just used mousewheel anyway.
Also some people were asking for dual bind so people could legitimately re bind a keyboard key and still track with mouse while smashing another key to fire as well, I'd assume they use autoit or autohotkey to do the same thing now and probably just put it on a mouse key/click.
My 2c is I hope they don't make it automatic and just put a fire rate in, I don't think anything will happen since this is something the community can police in 90% of cases and will just suck up dev time.
edit: quote box.
The NS2 shotgun IS an automatic. Hold down the mouse button and see what I mean. As for the pistol, I would prefer CS-style ROF limitation to address the pistol script issue.
i believe MW2 was patched to prevent fire mousewheel binds - a large number of players were binding fire to mousewheel and using it to unload an entire 'semi auto' high powered rifle/pistol clip in a totally unfeasible time.
imo the feasibility is key here.
Current pistol is supposed to be 25 light damage (1/4 dmg to armor) and 0.1s fire rate. The old secondary fire was 40 normal damage (1/2 to armor) and 0.4s (?) fire rate. I feel like this is a much better solution because an automatic pistol is going to feel like a 10-round LMG. A 0.4s fire rate with a damage buff makes the pistol feel less spray-and-pray and more about consistently hitting shots.
This will also severely mitigate the benefits from using a pistol script.
most animations are pretty cool, but the pistol one really makes the marine look like a tool
Honestly, that'd probably make the pistol really OP. Tracking aim is always going to have a level of inaccuracy that twitch single shot aim doesn't have. Methods of rapid firing the pistol right now still come with the downside of missing massive portions of your clip for even a momentary lapse of accuracy. The pistol you're describing would really need to be closer to a 0.7s fire rate with a clip of 4 to be anywhere near balanced.
I mean for reference, that pistol would 3 shot skulks at W0 (pre-carapace). That amount of damage combined with the current clip size would be a pretty drastic upgrade in effective marine killing power.
It would 3 shot a non-cara skulk, but so what? That's 0.8s, minimum, of fire time assuming 100% accuracy. The old pistol kills a skulk in 5 shots, or 0.4s of fire. Assuming 100% of accuracy, an LMG kills a skulk in 9-10 bullets, which takes ~0.5s. Assuming 100% accuracy, a shotgun kills a skulk in 0.0 seconds.
If you do TTK math while assuming 100% accuracy, you're always going to get silly results. The current pistol is actually far more powerful in terms of damage throughput as the version I suggested.
(mag sizes may have to be adjusted down to 6 or 8 or something.. I haven't given it much thought)
The rate of fire is important as evidenced by the fact that nobody complains about a scripted shotgun. Why? Because the refire is slow enough that a script doesn't help at all. Slowing the fire rate will destroy much of the unfair benefit gained from using a pistol script.
The thing with that is that the issue still remains. Even if the cooldown is .1 seconds, the best thing to do as a power gamer is make a script since it will increase the speed that you fire compared to a normal player by 33% or more. No one will be able to click every .1 second without being early or late unless a script is used.
I'm not au fait with the numbers and whereabouts I would fit in here, but I'm sure there are plenty of people who could suggest a suitable ROF (be it 0.1, 0.15, 0.2s...). The principle remains the same. There will still be some people who use a script, but with an active ROF in place that's not too far off what most people can achieve, they gain very little from it.
The main problem as it stands (if the ROF is very very low, I don't know what it currently is and I have no interest in such scripts/mwheel binds etc), is that someone can in principle unload 10 shots in a tiny amount of time, combine that with ping differences and you have a real problem.
I say that but I've not experienced this problem myself, I only see complaints here about it...
The current version isn't more powerful than what you suggested for actual play though. Biggest reason is that 40 normal x 10 is packing a crapload more killing power before a reload than 25 light x 10. Making 3 slower timed shots is a definitively easier task than tracking 5 shots. More than that, unless you have 100% perfect aim, you're usually only going to kill one skulk per reload with the current pistol. Your proposed pistol would make situations of killing 2 skulks per 1 pistol reload far, far more common.
I'm not opposed at all to making the pistol fire less and hit harder. It's just the numbers you proposed were off somewhat imo. A 0.7s delay with a 6 shot 40 normal pistol is probably about right though.