the vibe i got from the OP and a few others was that of "marines are overpowered", to which the correct response is not "marines are more fun than aliens" but more suitably "no, marines are not overpowered". (as proved by the 50.7 statistic)
The problem is that certain people were showing off this 50% statistic and saying there's nothing wrong with the balance of the game. This 50% statistic had come from averaged results and ignoring the fact there was something drastically wrong with the way this 'balance' had come about.
I think I would agree with the sentiment of marines being more fun. I can't say if whether they are noticably weaker or stronger than aliens, but they are definitely more fun. This isn't something that's new to this build, however. It's just the whole way the teams are constructed. If you lose your shotgun and/or your jetpack as a marine, you can shrug it off: your rifle is still trusty, and you may even find a another shotgun (or whatever weapon it is you were using) from the ground. But losing a lifeform, any lifeform, sets you back big time in terms of fun factor.
Skulk is fun to play, I'm not saying it isn't. I'm saying playing as a Skulk most of the match is boring. I only play as marines to get a reprieve from the dullness of playing as an alien. Gorges are sort of on the cheap side so you might argue using those, but I've tried. I've really tried, but the passive nature of the class just doesn't become me.
A solution? I have none, short of creating a second free lifeform alongside the Skulk or having Khammander made low lifeform (gorges, lerks?) eggs be cheaper. *Shrug*.
I think I would agree with the sentiment of marines being more fun. I can't say if whether they are noticably weaker or stronger than aliens, but they are definitely more fun. This isn't something that's new to this build, however. It's just the whole way the teams are constructed. If you lose your shotgun and/or your jetpack as a marine, you can shrug it off: your rifle is still trusty, and you may even find a another shotgun (or whatever weapon it is you were using) from the ground. But losing a lifeform, any lifeform, sets you back big time in terms of fun factor.
Skulk is fun to play, I'm not saying it isn't. I'm saying playing as a Skulk most of the match is boring. I only play as marines to get a reprieve from the dullness of playing as an alien. Gorges are sort of on the cheap side so you might argue using those, but I've tried. I've really tried, but the passive nature of the class just doesn't become me.
A solution? I have none, short of creating a second free lifeform alongside the Skulk or having Khammander made low lifeform (gorges, lerks?) eggs be cheaper. *Shrug*.
sewlek's (official, experimental) balance mod puts a massive spin on both aliens and marines. relative to vanilla, the aliens are more tempered and fun to play - and the marines while less one-dimensional without the omni-crutch armory; are yet still formidible.
personally i have my fingers crossed that EVERY change in that mod gets at least a 'taster' in the live build. every change turns the obsolete into 'solete' and the unfun into fun. there's some bits still rough around the edges, but it all makes more sense than b241
The last patches seem counter intuitive. The alien side is the mobile and stealthy side. Skulks, lerks, and fades are all fast. Skulks and lerks have innate abilities to hide. Skulks can cling to walls and lerks can perch. This is why the last patches were counter intuitive. Lerks have tracers making perch pointless. The dynamic of perching as a lerk has withered down to hiding under the floor in landing pad, the gap, maybe one more odd map specific room. Its a shame that the devs would put a beautiful dynamic like perch to waste on a truly unique and awesome class, because I KNOW the devs didn't envision lerks not being able to perch and shoot in combat.
Secondly the skulks are slow now. Its kinda tough even catching up to a marine. The latest patch might have helped out slightly with momentum, but I still think the base speed of the skulks is a hair too slow. The patches were overkill to the aliens early game and counter intuitive to the unique characteristics of the aliens.
My opinion is the additions of tracers was uncalled for. Hydras and lerks were never a problem to spot as you could hear them when close or extrapolate their position based on the spikes' wall collision animation. If you want to create a game that has depth don't take away from the game because beginners haven't gotten comfortable to it yet. You created dynamics like perching for a reason, and adding in tracers kills it. If you ask me, tone down how fast regeneration works on lerks specifically. Pubbers are probably having the hardest time with harrassment from a lerk who is regenerating way too fast, when there is no armory around.
All in all, aliens have taken a double hit in their early game in terms of mobility and stealth. What ends up happening is in the early game aliens cannot hold any resources and are setback for the rest of the game, because of the double nerf. The early game must be balanced back in order to create depth. When the "early game" or resource gathering is balanced, the mid game and late game will show more depth as well. The fades will have carapace, celerity, adrenaline, and blink, or the marines will have weapons and armor ups 2+, based upon how well each side did in the early game. As of now marines just roll through the early game and win. (brag: best railgun exo time 4:45)
i'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you there md.
aliens have the upper hand in pub. we would all like to see more depth and a higher frequency in contested games, but those nerfs you're whining about were extremely minor and could even be construed as game improvements.
spikes had no animation before, no trail, no particle effect... it was tacky... and the skulk acceleration nerf was also explained somewhere by a dev - iirc it was to stop the ridiculous air control (which allowed you to turn 180 degrees and not lose momentum).
I've seen maybe a couple games where aliens have won the early game, and that is only when my friends stack against marines. In fact the early game is so bad that we just drop our rifles and pistol our way through aliens and 4:45 into the game we have railguns and armor 1.
The nerfs I'm whining about are major. Tracers take out the 'major' utility in perching with a lerk. Tell me you can sit there and lerk perch and shoot without dying, that is a lie. Its a major nerf.
On a repetitive note, prepatch you could interpolate the lerk's perching position by observing the lerk's spike collision animation, so it was never a problem finding a lerk. This was explained in my previous post. There is some experience and intuition involved, so its not rookies are going to pick it up instantly, but it is absurd to deny a lerk its shift key ability because of inexperience.
Secondly you could not simply whip your mouse around 180 degrees with a skulk prepatch without losing momentum. In fact that would drop your momentum down to 0. You have to smoothly turn your mouse while holding forward and the same direction in which you are turning your mouse to not lose too much momentum.
There was always momentum loss in practical combat situations because landing the bite was more important than maintaining a perfect momentum while air curling.
this thread is tl;dr but did anyone tell the OP that according to NS lore, the alien are supposed to be the hunted?
IIRC, the lore says that the marines are sent in to clear out the infestation and kill the Hive, and that the Kharra infestation is one entity that manifests itself in different ways in order to defend the hive from attack... These aren't hunter-killer aliens coming into human places to eat you, they are a more like a fungal infection with particularly sharp fangs.
Why don't you guys just discuss here on the forums what you're planning for the next realease so that you can get feedback rather than shrouding each one in secrecy? It's not like some competitor is going to steal the ideas for the next patch causing UWE to go bankrupt...
then the whiners voice their concerns before even trying it?
not to mention the fact that many features will be withdrawn after unsuccessful testing phase. so you'd also have new whiners who whine about things being removed which were never actually added.
Comments
The problem is that certain people were showing off this 50% statistic and saying there's nothing wrong with the balance of the game. This 50% statistic had come from averaged results and ignoring the fact there was something drastically wrong with the way this 'balance' had come about.
Skulk is fun to play, I'm not saying it isn't. I'm saying playing as a Skulk most of the match is boring. I only play as marines to get a reprieve from the dullness of playing as an alien. Gorges are sort of on the cheap side so you might argue using those, but I've tried. I've really tried, but the passive nature of the class just doesn't become me.
A solution? I have none, short of creating a second free lifeform alongside the Skulk or having Khammander made low lifeform (gorges, lerks?) eggs be cheaper. *Shrug*.
sewlek's (official, experimental) balance mod puts a massive spin on both aliens and marines. relative to vanilla, the aliens are more tempered and fun to play - and the marines while less one-dimensional without the omni-crutch armory; are yet still formidible.
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/128755/sewleks-balance-mod/p1
personally i have my fingers crossed that EVERY change in that mod gets at least a 'taster' in the live build. every change turns the obsolete into 'solete' and the unfun into fun. there's some bits still rough around the edges, but it all makes more sense than b241
Secondly the skulks are slow now. Its kinda tough even catching up to a marine. The latest patch might have helped out slightly with momentum, but I still think the base speed of the skulks is a hair too slow. The patches were overkill to the aliens early game and counter intuitive to the unique characteristics of the aliens.
My opinion is the additions of tracers was uncalled for. Hydras and lerks were never a problem to spot as you could hear them when close or extrapolate their position based on the spikes' wall collision animation. If you want to create a game that has depth don't take away from the game because beginners haven't gotten comfortable to it yet. You created dynamics like perching for a reason, and adding in tracers kills it. If you ask me, tone down how fast regeneration works on lerks specifically. Pubbers are probably having the hardest time with harrassment from a lerk who is regenerating way too fast, when there is no armory around.
All in all, aliens have taken a double hit in their early game in terms of mobility and stealth. What ends up happening is in the early game aliens cannot hold any resources and are setback for the rest of the game, because of the double nerf. The early game must be balanced back in order to create depth. When the "early game" or resource gathering is balanced, the mid game and late game will show more depth as well. The fades will have carapace, celerity, adrenaline, and blink, or the marines will have weapons and armor ups 2+, based upon how well each side did in the early game. As of now marines just roll through the early game and win. (brag: best railgun exo time 4:45)
Great game and glad you liked the camo idea!
-md
aliens have the upper hand in pub. we would all like to see more depth and a higher frequency in contested games, but those nerfs you're whining about were extremely minor and could even be construed as game improvements.
spikes had no animation before, no trail, no particle effect... it was tacky... and the skulk acceleration nerf was also explained somewhere by a dev - iirc it was to stop the ridiculous air control (which allowed you to turn 180 degrees and not lose momentum).
The nerfs I'm whining about are major. Tracers take out the 'major' utility in perching with a lerk. Tell me you can sit there and lerk perch and shoot without dying, that is a lie. Its a major nerf.
On a repetitive note, prepatch you could interpolate the lerk's perching position by observing the lerk's spike collision animation, so it was never a problem finding a lerk. This was explained in my previous post. There is some experience and intuition involved, so its not rookies are going to pick it up instantly, but it is absurd to deny a lerk its shift key ability because of inexperience.
Secondly you could not simply whip your mouse around 180 degrees with a skulk prepatch without losing momentum. In fact that would drop your momentum down to 0. You have to smoothly turn your mouse while holding forward and the same direction in which you are turning your mouse to not lose too much momentum.
There was always momentum loss in practical combat situations because landing the bite was more important than maintaining a perfect momentum while air curling.
IIRC, the lore says that the marines are sent in to clear out the infestation and kill the Hive, and that the Kharra infestation is one entity that manifests itself in different ways in order to defend the hive from attack... These aren't hunter-killer aliens coming into human places to eat you, they are a more like a fungal infection with particularly sharp fangs.
ahhh, reminds me of alpha