I love this new sg ! But Yeah i can admit fade feel like paper sometimes, we still need more practise with it for give to sewlek good feedback. A other thing i would say : if u sewlek have one day time to work on the rifle butt and make it useful. Because it's kind of stuff make the game more fun for olds/news players.
I like the idea of removing tres egg drops and replacing it with the ability to transform tres to pres. Although it sounds like it needs some numbers tweaking.
gliss was talking in campfire about how its harder to bite (and live) due bullet diameter, better performance and animation improvements. Think he was saying it's easier to hit the lerk with LMG in balance mod. I can't say I've played enough to say 1 way or the other yet. It was also mentioned about how when you bite marines if you touch them you loose all momentum. It is this way in live too and also think it would be nice to get that changed so the lerk can maintain speed/flight when swooping in for a bite and they touch the marine.
gliss was talking in campfire about how its harder to bite (and live) due bullet diameter, better performance and animation improvements. Think he was saying it's easier to hit the lerk with LMG in balance mod. I can't say I've played enough to say 1 way or the other yet.
I'd agree with this from some play I had last night, I was paying special attention to LMG vs. Lerk since the issue came up in the thread and it does seem to absolutely shred them now, compared to live.
I actually kind of like the concept behind making the shotgun deal heavy damage, since the earlier lifeforms have a smaller proportion of their EHP as armour it means that early shotguns are a bit less deadly there and hopefully the numbers can be balanced so that fades are appropriately survivable. Maybe the shotgun's base damage needs to go down slightly more? There is a side issue that this seems likely to make carapace totally useless vs. the most popular marine weapon but there you go.
JektJoin Date: 2012-02-05Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited June 2013
Had some good pugs just now. From the games the AU community has been having, it's been in the aliens best interests to have someone save for an onos to break the almost guaranteed two pg turtle, and have a gorge at the beginning due to alien commanders having no pres. Good having 2 less fades in the ball.
Really do hope strafe jumping comes back for speed gains.
The new released patch is great played a few rounds of pug tonight ' umbra was at full effect the alien side seem to be getting the correct attention which was due for a'while it was fun'
tonight's match i came across a drifter been stuck inside the fade body tho getting 5 shotgun blast close range with amour 3 and weapon 2 they both lived.
No more comm-hydras or comm-mines ? Sounds like a meh.
My preferred way of spending pres as commander was a pack of mines and a welder in case of emergency. That was my personal commander kit. Now this roleplaying element is taken away from me And no, dropping them myself with tres or whatever system is there now is not the same as buying comm emergency kit with pres.
Edit: also, this sorta limits hotseat commander strategy, which mostly applies to aliens, where you start as a commander, drop basic stuff and go to the battlefield, and whoever spawns drops additional structures needed and does researches. There will be one guy with 20 less pres from the start and whoever gets in the hive is punished by not getting res for 5 ticks.
Hotseat commander play should be discouraged, the game is more fun when the commander is focused on leading his team. That strategy for aliens was just a natural extension of the alien comm not having much to do, which obviously should be fixed and not embraced.
The 30s cd once leaving the hive for pres to start coming back is stupid imo, at least make it apply to the person who started in the chair only, otherwise if the comm is doing something and someone has to mist themselves/drop an RT immediately etc they get penalised for being in the chair for 1s.
EDIT: The comm is in the chair so much that he honestly can't go fade with the others anyway, he'd surely be 10 res short minimum and then there's the fact he probably went gorge+hydras, it's just not gonna happen.
Hotseat commander play should be discouraged, the game is more fun when the commander is focused on leading his team. That strategy for aliens was just a natural extension of the alien comm not having much to do, which obviously should be fixed and not embraced.
Discouraged, yes. Punished, no. The alien commander now has a lot more to do which should encourage him to stay in the hive. I don't see the point in punishing someone for temporarily entering the cc/hive in an emergency situation. The same goes for the starting res. What if there's only a few people on the server and you just want to get a game going? No one will want to jump into the chair because they'll be set 20 res behind.
Sometimes I really wish there was a system in place that prevents a marine weapon from disappearing when there's a marine in it's direct vicinity. (Basically reset the despawn timer to 5 seconds if there is a marine less than 1-2 meters away)
It just seems silly to me that you have to "juggle" your team mate's weapon to keep it alive when that is basically the same as just "guarding" it anyway. Standing on top of the weapon stack should be enough, imho.
Would also prevent the frustration when your Shotgun despawns right at your feet for no apparent reason and you were actually about to pick it up but the game decided to pick the Welder first.
At a ratio of 15:1, Tres to Pres conversion seems silly. It's also practically a hidden mechanic to the average field player.
What's so wrong with lifeform eggs? If they are too cheap, increase the cost of them rather than switching the entire mechanic up for the sake of it. Lifeform eggs are obvious in their purpose. They also aren't the same thing as a player evolving, they don't need to necessarily cost the same for things to remain transparent to the players.
More needless complexity. Seriously, the make random stuff up and see what sticks aspect of the BT mod is frightening when you consider it is going to replace live at some point.
Seriously, the make random stuff up and see what sticks aspect of the BT mod is frightening when you consider it is going to replace live at some point.
Make stuff up and see what sticks is exactly what this mod is for. It's a testing ground for new ideas. By their very nature they are going to be experimental, of drastically varying soundness, and subject to rapid change and refinement.
BT is not going to replace live. Some things from BT are going to go into live. The things that appear to work well will be put into a separate mod and extensively tested prior to being put into live.
You would know this already if you read this discussion thread and kept an open mind.
Hotseat commander play should be discouraged, the game is more fun when the commander is focused on leading his team. That strategy for aliens was just a natural extension of the alien comm not having much to do, which obviously should be fixed and not embraced.
See, marine comm has to med/ammo/scan and occasionally beacon and nano. This discourages marine comm to leave, as he will be more useful inside CC. He should not be punished for taking a risk of leaving CC to defend base.
Alien team does not miss that match when comm is out of the hive, but still comm should not be punished for doing so.
What's so wrong with lifeform eggs? If they are too cheap, increase the cost of them rather than switching the entire mechanic up for the sake of it. Lifeform eggs are obvious in their purpose. They also aren't the same thing as a player evolving, they don't need to necessarily cost the same for things to remain transparent to the players.
Exactly. It might not be the case for comp, but in pubs, if you want more jetpackers on your team, you drop jetpack. If you give them res, they might as well buy exos. If you need gorges at specific location, you drop gorge egg at specific location. Some skulk will take it and become a gorge. Now, if you give people additional res, you will also have to tell em to go to specific location and evolve gorge. And I'm not sure if many people will do so. Also, 15:1 means like 75 tres if you want only one player to go gorge without using 'own' pres. Sure, everybody gets pres for conversion, but you wanted only one free gorge.
Why is the Alien commander such a pain to deal with? There has already been amazing posts about the issue of how confusing it is to deal with so many requirements. Upgrades being tied to the Shift/Crags/Shades are highly confusing and a pain to deal with. This is also tied with Drifters loosing their scouting role and being paper planes. I understand that you desired to make Drifters into Macs, but Macs at least have a proper amount of health.
BT is not going to replace live. Some things from BT are going to go into live. The things that appear to work well will be put into a separate mod and extensively tested prior to being put into live.
Over the coming weeks, Balance Test Mod will become vanilla Natural Selection 2 – and the way you play will change.
Perhaps there should be an announcement clarifying that then. People aren't going to read a 79 page thread to find out what is and is not going to happen.
Given UWEs previous record of last minute changes making it in to live builds I think people have a reason to be worried.
Please don't let BT mod become vanilla... This change is too drastic and it seems inappropriate for the developers to do so. Seems like Sewlek took NS2 and made his own little version and is now replacing vanilla with it when there are a lot if unstable concepts to be fixed/removed/added/sex
Sometimes I really wish there was a system in place that prevents a marine weapon from disappearing when there's a marine in it's direct vicinity. (Basically reset the despawn timer to 5 seconds if there is a marine less than 1-2 meters away)
It just seems silly to me that you have to "juggle" your team mate's weapon to keep it alive when that is basically the same as just "guarding" it anyway. Standing on top of the weapon stack should be enough, imho.
Would also prevent the frustration when your Shotgun despawns right at your feet for no apparent reason and you were actually about to pick it up but the game decided to pick the Welder first.
Neat idea, this would be great.
I'm not a fan of how much air control I have as a marine. I shouldnt be able to run straight forward, jump, curve 180 in the air, landing were I jumped from or even slightly farther back. That kind of agility should be a strictly alien thing imo.
- Researching abilities on crags/shades/shifts is unintuitive and pointless. There was nothing wrong with researching them on the hive, this seems like "change for the sake of change" to me.
- The 30-second penalty should only apply to the commander. Seems ridiculous that a player should sacrifice five ticks because they are briefly jumping into the hive to drop an RT somewhere.
- Researching abilities on crags/shades/shifts is unintuitive and pointless. There was nothing wrong with researching them on the hive, this seems like "change for the sake of change" to me.
- The 30-second penalty should only apply to the commander. Seems ridiculous that a player should sacrifice five ticks because they are briefly jumping into the hive to drop an RT somewhere.
The general idea of giving marines a way to take down individual alien upgrades is not a bad one. It's the execution, by putting those upgrades into a global pool of utility chambers, that fails big time. Dedicated auto-placed structures for Hive upgrades might be a better alternative, so there is no additional management involved for the khammander and no additional hidden costs. But I would be wary even of that at the moment because it's just so easy at the moment for marines to lock aliens permanently down in their Hive location and kill those upgrades if they wanted to, so the re-acquisition would have to be not too expensive for aliens.
If it would only apply to the original commander, then what is going to happen if that commander is forced to leave the match at some point and someone else becomes the "permanent" commander?
A limitation of this magnitude is imho simply uncalled for. It doesn't add any new strategies or addresses major balance issues. All it does is removing existing strategies. If you want the commander to stay in his seat, give him incentive to do so instead of just forcing him.
Comments
should be better now
or you'll lose the players
xxx
I'd agree with this from some play I had last night, I was paying special attention to LMG vs. Lerk since the issue came up in the thread and it does seem to absolutely shred them now, compared to live.
I actually kind of like the concept behind making the shotgun deal heavy damage, since the earlier lifeforms have a smaller proportion of their EHP as armour it means that early shotguns are a bit less deadly there and hopefully the numbers can be balanced so that fades are appropriately survivable. Maybe the shotgun's base damage needs to go down slightly more? There is a side issue that this seems likely to make carapace totally useless vs. the most popular marine weapon but there you go.
Really do hope strafe jumping comes back for speed gains.
tonight's match i came across a drifter been stuck inside the fade body tho getting 5 shotgun blast close range with amour 3 and weapon 2 they both lived.
My preferred way of spending pres as commander was a pack of mines and a welder in case of emergency. That was my personal commander kit. Now this roleplaying element is taken away from me
Edit: also, this sorta limits hotseat commander strategy, which mostly applies to aliens, where you start as a commander, drop basic stuff and go to the battlefield, and whoever spawns drops additional structures needed and does researches. There will be one guy with 20 less pres from the start and whoever gets in the hive is punished by not getting res for 5 ticks.
EDIT: The comm is in the chair so much that he honestly can't go fade with the others anyway, he'd surely be 10 res short minimum and then there's the fact he probably went gorge+hydras, it's just not gonna happen.
It just seems silly to me that you have to "juggle" your team mate's weapon to keep it alive when that is basically the same as just "guarding" it anyway. Standing on top of the weapon stack should be enough, imho.
Would also prevent the frustration when your Shotgun despawns right at your feet for no apparent reason and you were actually about to pick it up but the game decided to pick the Welder first.
What's so wrong with lifeform eggs? If they are too cheap, increase the cost of them rather than switching the entire mechanic up for the sake of it. Lifeform eggs are obvious in their purpose. They also aren't the same thing as a player evolving, they don't need to necessarily cost the same for things to remain transparent to the players.
More needless complexity. Seriously, the make random stuff up and see what sticks aspect of the BT mod is frightening when you consider it is going to replace live at some point.
BT is not going to replace live. Some things from BT are going to go into live. The things that appear to work well will be put into a separate mod and extensively tested prior to being put into live.
You would know this already if you read this discussion thread and kept an open mind.
See, marine comm has to med/ammo/scan and occasionally beacon and nano. This discourages marine comm to leave, as he will be more useful inside CC. He should not be punished for taking a risk of leaving CC to defend base.
Alien team does not miss that match when comm is out of the hive, but still comm should not be punished for doing so.
Exactly. It might not be the case for comp, but in pubs, if you want more jetpackers on your team, you drop jetpack. If you give them res, they might as well buy exos. If you need gorges at specific location, you drop gorge egg at specific location. Some skulk will take it and become a gorge. Now, if you give people additional res, you will also have to tell em to go to specific location and evolve gorge. And I'm not sure if many people will do so. Also, 15:1 means like 75 tres if you want only one player to go gorge without using 'own' pres. Sure, everybody gets pres for conversion, but you wanted only one free gorge.
Why is the Alien commander such a pain to deal with? There has already been amazing posts about the issue of how confusing it is to deal with so many requirements. Upgrades being tied to the Shift/Crags/Shades are highly confusing and a pain to deal with. This is also tied with Drifters loosing their scouting role and being paper planes. I understand that you desired to make Drifters into Macs, but Macs at least have a proper amount of health.
Perhaps there should be an announcement clarifying that then. People aren't going to read a 79 page thread to find out what is and is not going to happen.
Given UWEs previous record of last minute changes making it in to live builds I think people have a reason to be worried.
Neat idea, this would be great.
I'm not a fan of how much air control I have as a marine. I shouldnt be able to run straight forward, jump, curve 180 in the air, landing were I jumped from or even slightly farther back. That kind of agility should be a strictly alien thing imo.
- Researching abilities on crags/shades/shifts is unintuitive and pointless. There was nothing wrong with researching them on the hive, this seems like "change for the sake of change" to me.
- The 30-second penalty should only apply to the commander. Seems ridiculous that a player should sacrifice five ticks because they are briefly jumping into the hive to drop an RT somewhere.
The general idea of giving marines a way to take down individual alien upgrades is not a bad one. It's the execution, by putting those upgrades into a global pool of utility chambers, that fails big time. Dedicated auto-placed structures for Hive upgrades might be a better alternative, so there is no additional management involved for the khammander and no additional hidden costs. But I would be wary even of that at the moment because it's just so easy at the moment for marines to lock aliens permanently down in their Hive location and kill those upgrades if they wanted to, so the re-acquisition would have to be not too expensive for aliens.
If it would only apply to the original commander, then what is going to happen if that commander is forced to leave the match at some point and someone else becomes the "permanent" commander?
A limitation of this magnitude is imho simply uncalled for. It doesn't add any new strategies or addresses major balance issues. All it does is removing existing strategies. If you want the commander to stay in his seat, give him incentive to do so instead of just forcing him.