Aliens vs Marines NSL Invitational

Fule

This is the second day I'm watching these matches and I have to ask - wtf is wrong with aliens? Aliens almost never win in competetive games - seems like they really have been either nerfed or marines have been buffed.

fanatic

Marine vs. alien win stats from the tournament has been pretty close, with marines having a slight percentage wise advantage (yesterday it was 52%/48%). Unfortunately rounds between american teams and european teams are causing a lot of problems, because of a poorly thought out rule that says that marines always play on their home server, which means that aliens are always at a big disadvantage during these matchups.

fourgorgestwoskulks

Marines about to win 7-0 again. UWE should send the coin to germany.

Xarius

I'm kind of sad they have to fly nexil all the way to Germany to have them lose versus ARC, lol.

Runteh

I was a little disappointed seeing Nxl play out the matches that were quite possibly GG calls on two occasions. Sauna were playing until about 2.00AM, and is far too late to be playing for such a big prize. All is fair in love and war though I suppose.

I think as someone mentioned, it would be better for EU/US to play it out and the winners face off in Germany.

Congrats though, both teams played like gents and looking forward to the final. I do think however that the whole 'ping' thing had a massive part in who won that at the end.

I still think EXOs need a massive look into in terms of viability. I quite like the idea of instead of researching 'Jetpacks' and 'Exos', how about a 'high tier weapons' research that gives you access to buying either JP/Single EXO (more useless/40 res option)? Then with the ability to upgrade to double EXO through commander.

I think it needs changing up, because they dont give marines any real advantage as they cant beacon. They are too much of a risk because of that, and losing one is a huge res loss. HMG/HEAVY ARMOUR was viable in NS1 because losing it was not such a big loss.

Hugh

You appear to have missed the Day One results, and be fixating on a less-than-perfect match involving a ping differential.

These are the day one results: http://unknownworlds.com/ns2/nsl-invitational-day-one-results/

If after seeing that kind of win loss record, you still want to come in here and post 'ZOMG ALIENS BROKEN,' then there's not much anyone can do to make you happy about balance.

RainyCaturday

NS2Stats confirms that it's not as big a difference as people make it seem but there is a 3% Marine Favor, mostly due to ping and skulk bug(?) hurting early game in some rare cases. (Trying to approach down a long corridor was deadly to aliens before but losing all your momentum makes it worse)

All in all, after seeing all the matches, I don't feel there is a huge advantage to Marines as a result of the patch. Just a very slight one and it has to do with a lot of other things from the patch added together, not just one or two things, and ping.

Great tournament so far and I can't wait to see Nxzl clean house in Germany and make USA proud!

fanatic

I want to say thanks to all the great admins, referees and casters and all our opponents for another fantastic tournament. I had a lot of fun playing this weekend and I think the patch has been, for the most part, a great success.

Runteh wrote: »

I still think EXOs need a massive look into in terms of viability. I quite like the idea of instead of researching 'Jetpacks' and 'Exos', how about a 'high tier weapons' research that gives you access to buying either JP/Single EXO (more useless/40 res option)? Then with the ability to upgrade to double EXO through commander.

More viable exos in comp play is the last thing I want to see. We (archaea) have actually tested a few decent exo strats, and could use them in matches if we wanted to, but have decided not to because:

(a) They're high risk.
(b) Exos degenerate gameplay.

Runteh

I'd rather see them as being a lot weaker fana, but more affordable. I am quite surprised they came into the game the way they did.

I thought they would be closer to the mech in aliens but smaller. I.e not total body coverage.

Totally agree with your point on degenerate play, they are too big, clumsy and just don't compliment the tacticality and movement of a standard marine. Also they are messy on screen for everyone trying to play.

Great art work, etc, but they feel out of place compared to ns1.

Know who you are btw, I am a fan living in the eu and all!

fanatic

Alright, I misunderstood you then. Agreed on weaker but cheaper.

ScardyBob

EddieFromEurope wrote: »

This is the second day I'm watching these matches and I have to ask - wtf is wrong with aliens? Aliens almost never win in competetive games - seems like they really have been either nerfed or marines have been buffed.

B240 introduced some small changes that turns out to have had a profound effect on skulk movement. A lot of the comp teams haven't had much time to adjust (the patch came out on Thursday) and it shows in the tourny. The count of the win rate for the Invitational (through the semi-finals, but excluding the yet to come finals and 3rd place decider) is:
Alien = 32
Marine = 54
Total = 86
For a 37% alien winrate in the tourny. Compare that to the last weekend Invitational Qualifier tourny which was (excluding forfeits):
Alien = 80
Marine = 46
Total = 126
For a 63% alien winrate. To be frank, I'm not opposed to seeing the winrate swing into the marines favor a bit as we've seen many patches where aliens had the advantage. Also, since we have a good idea of what caused the swing, it wouldn't be hard to tweak the values closer to the B239 numbers to push the winrate closer to a 50/50 balance.

Runteh wrote: »

I was a little disappointed seeing Nxl play out the matches that were quite possibly GG calls on two occasions. Sauna were playing until about 2.00AM, and is far too late to be playing for such a big prize. All is fair in love and war though I suppose.

I think as someone mentioned, it would be better for EU/US to play it out and the winners face off in Germany.

Congrats though, both teams played like gents and looking forward to the final. I do think however that the whole 'ping' thing had a massive part in who won that at the end.

The late-night for Saunamen was an unfourtunate consequence of having an international tournament using a two-stage, round robin format. Add in delays and the unforeseen 3-way tie in Stage 2, group A between Arc, Hg, and Saunamen and its not surprising that it went late into the night for EU teams. I was skeptical of this format precisely because I feared that something like this would happen.

GORGEous

Runteh wrote: »

I was a little disappointed seeing Nxl play out the matches that were quite possibly GG calls on two occasions. Sauna were playing until about 2.00AM, and is far too late to be playing for such a big prize. All is fair in love and war though I suppose.

In a tournament like this, you are rushed from one game to the next. We took the time to decompress from our losses, discuss our mistakes, and regroup for the next game. The time situation was unfortunate, but ultimately not our faults. We also had guys awake since 7-8am (PST) and that's just a fact of life for cross-continent competition.

Virsoul

If you watch our one other loss against HG in the first stage, we play until absolutely all hope is lost.

http://www.twitch.tv/sting_reddog/c/1981092

If there's a slim chance you can win, you take it.

Fule

Virsoul wrote: »

If you watch our one other loss against HG in the first stage, we play until absolutely all hope is lost.

http://www.twitch.tv/sting_reddog/c/1981092

If there's a slim chance you can win, you take it.

I didn't see every single match you played, but I like how you didn't give up so quickly and kept fighting.

Maybe aliens are not bad at all, but I was a little bit confused when I watched Nexzil vs Saunamen yesterday which made me create this thread.

Xarius

More viable exos in comp play is the last thing I want to see. We (archaea) have actually tested a few decent exo strats, and could use them in matches if we wanted to, but have decided not to because:

So instead of maximising strategic depth which would make for far more exciting gameplay they should just leave some aspects of the game completely non-viable in competitive? You'd think NS 2 already had plenty of features like that. (Sentries, shade, third hive abilities, etc)

I do agree they need to raise the skill ceiling on exos at any rate, there's little to no skill involved and they're not even close to being as fun as HA/HMG was.

ScardyBob

EddieFromEurope wrote: »

I didn't see every single match you played, but I like how you didn't give up so quickly and kept fighting.

Maybe aliens are not bad at all, but I was a little bit confused when I watched Nexzil vs Saunamen yesterday which made me create this thread.

It makes much more sense to fight to the bitter end in a tourny rather than a scrim or public match as the goal is to win rather than practice or being entertained. Also, I find comebacks to be much more viable in comp matches because of the higher level of organization and coordination involved. Even when your down to one base, you still have an opportunity to deliver a crippling blow that can get you right back in the game.