NS2_Tarvos [Need Advice / Criticism]

QwiXXeRQwiXXeR Join Date: 2004-11-05 Member: 32640Members
edited April 2013 in Mapping
Update 18/04/2013 - New Version on Workshop

Bug Fixxes
- Power node added to Waterfall (Thanks @hozz )
- Power node in Living no longer starts built (Thanks @Flaterectomy )
- Eggs should now spawn in Steam Room (Thanks @WhiteDevil )
- AI units should now navigate catwalk, cargo and living quarters correctly

Changes [Some of these changes/cover are quite Butchered!, as they are temp to see gameplay]
- Waterfall -> Steamroom corridors with more cover
- Crevice a touch smaller with more cover
- Cave -> Crevice connection removed (Kind of want Crevice/Cave to act like Server/Cargo so mite redo this whole area at some point)
- Steam room
-- Hive and RT Swapped.
-- Rearranged a bit with the big blocks of cover shrunk and split up.
- Catwalk got some safety rails (But is still a bit dangerous)
- Observation
-- Elevation lowered to make assault from lockers easier
-- Catwalk lowered slightly and new ramp added from CC
-- [Too] large pillars added under catwalk for LOS and skulk climbing.
-- Exit to server change to be 2 doors split with a wall for more cover.
- Server room got some vents under the walkway and a some arched ceiling
- Landing pad ceiling lowered on one side and a touch of cover added
- Bit of cover added between catwalk/lab to stage your onos suicide run
- Almost all corridors got some head room for skulks (Kind of a temp solution before detailing later)
- Some colour added to RR (I think hive is causing errors in console )

My other thoughts
(Kind of want Crevice/Cave to act like Server/Cargo so mite redo this whole area at some point, I may craft it into "1" larger cave area but that is still kinda split by LOS
Heres the overview, Hope we get to play it some so I can get more feedback

Update 12/04/2013 - Finally finished the grey box of the map and have published it!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=138562031
Please check it out and tell me what you think, Also below I have changed the Flow map from before to a minimap (No real vents have been added yet)

Update 29/03/2013 - I lost my map due to HDD crash and have had to restart :(
Ive posted a little nosound video of the Living quarters which I did after the crash just to get back into things before I greybox the map... again :P, hopefully quicker this time.
Also the layout flow below does not represent what I had before and am now aiming for so I will update that in the future, hopefully with a eagle eye of the greybox.

Update 04/04/2013


=================================================

Well I thought I mite post up some things from the map I'm working (and reworking) on :P

This is the current Minimap without any vents added yet.
3pKBg5q.jpg

The theme is a small listening post on an asteroid or really small rocky planet, So i want the map to seem like it was originally just the Central landing pad, Living quarters and the Observation/recording room, with some storage rooms and a out of mind Thermal power room. Which was then extended to house a small lab for examining some of crystals discovered inside.
Unbeknownst to the researchers, aliens had infected the caverns of the asteroid/planet, so this half is more rocky/wet/steamy and cavernous (Possible vegetation, depending how theme/inspiration goes). With some natural cave entrances in landing pad and Steam room and a forced entry by the aliens into the lab.
This is where the marines come in and we start playing the map.

One of the main features is the central landing pad which will seem sunk into the asteroid/planet with a force field up above where the drop ship has come down from.

I'm still in real early Grey Box stage , I have remade this a few times as I'm learning to map :P, so i have some crappily semi propped out rooms in another file but I'm pretty much going from scratch with geometry on this one.

I cant think of a name, Tarvos is a name of a moon of Saturn.
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Comments

  • killer monkeykiller monkey Join Date: 2010-02-26 Member: 70743Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Name is taken already
  • DarkSeraphDarkSeraph Join Date: 2004-06-07 Member: 29174Members
    Get more creative with the name - as in name the actual outpost. Look up names of moons or something like that.
  • QwiXXeRQwiXXeR Join Date: 2004-11-05 Member: 32640Members
    Hey Guys, Name is definately a work in progress :P, but I'l leave it for now.

    I thought I'd upload some grey boxxing I did in Observation, I removed the doors while doing it but there will be one down near the RT and one on the catwalk.
    seems a little small now but think im going to extend the back of the room a little, maybe with some terminals.

    VCF0mnm.jpg
    JIvioeN.jpg
    2bynRZR.jpg
    q5x4M4T.jpg

    Let me know what you think.

    I'm really new to mapping, trying to mostly just use the line tool and then Extrude/Move to try keep things clean, can be a real exercise for me to think in my head what lines I need before I start moving/extruding.
  • DarkSeraphDarkSeraph Join Date: 2004-06-07 Member: 29174Members
    Lookin good. I like the name Tarvos too.

    If you're new don't forget the biggest keys to clean geometry: Snap to Min Grid, and Weld Nearby Vertices.
  • QwiXXeRQwiXXeR Join Date: 2004-11-05 Member: 32640Members
    Yeh those really help :P

    Thought I'd put a little update of today's work :)

    Pushed the corner back a bit for the CC and buildings, also a little more space around the RT
    NQiL9Kt.jpg
    Next is my Server Room RT, ultimately I want a overhead glass vent system with cabling etc so I have put a quick functioning placeholder one in.
    KNUwGie.jpg
    From the other side of the room, There are windows on the left on each side of the room that look into the upper level of a cargo room adjacent.
    aoBIIrC.png
    This is a view from one of said windows, The door you see will be broken and unusable, access will be on the otherside (The RT is visible i nthis shot becuase I raised the floor temporarily but its back down again to help block a little.
    mraLny8.jpg
    And then a view from other side into 1 half of cargo (Pretty under done at the moment)
    E23Qz1p.jpg


    :) , I'm thinking of maybe dropping the techpoint from landing and making it a 4 Tech Point, and/or dropping two of the extra res nodes to make a longer middle game.
  • xtcmenxtcmen Join Date: 2004-04-20 Member: 28040Members, Squad Five Blue
    Your layout seems a bit too complex. Try reducing the amount of hallways by combining some of them. For example, your middle tech point has 6 entrances leading to it.
  • QwiXXeRQwiXXeR Join Date: 2004-11-05 Member: 32640Members
    Yes, As I go through it and box it out I'm trying to turn many of the corridors into rooms instead.
    There is only 4 main entrances into middle, the two pink ones are vents, and I'm thinking they will most link to the rooms/corridors just outside of middle?
    Like my Diagram has cargo and server room apart from each other, but in the map they are pretty much next to each other, so there are no corridors, just a doorway.
    Thanks for the feedback :)
  • QwiXXeRQwiXXeR Join Date: 2004-11-05 Member: 32640Members
    Little update on my work in progress
    Here's a broken catwalk between server and Lab, I'm going to have to put a lot of time into this and this is nowhere near the finished thing lol :P
    EMtizya.jpg
    Here is the entrance looking into Lab on the left, you can just see the breached wall on the far end, the window on the right will look into a locked room.
    EiNxmom.jpg
    Looking into the Lab
    wYlxWtV.jpg
    Looking into the locked room, will be a laser hitting a crystal, will need to put lots of work into that
    kYtzSH2.jpg
    Another look into lab, with table on ramp blocking RT from being sniped.
    xrDcOHT.jpg
    A view from the breached wall
    hmmsMXQ.jpg
    And finally, a view from the raised walkway behind the Tech point.
    aRLPv7p.jpg

    The vent in the roof has a Slow spinning fan.

    Let me know what you think :)
  • HowserHowser UK Join Date: 2010-02-08 Member: 70488Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    nice work, seems you're really learning how to use spark now!
    For gray boxing thats quite detailed, personally I like my boxes with just grayness in them at pre-testing phase! but its cool to experiment and have fun with what you're doing. So I'll let you off.
    the crystals are very psychedelic, a bit visually distracting in fact, tone that shizzel down or make them all one colour.
    Secondly you should add me on steam and join our map testing group... as long as you aint from austrialia that is. We're not racist, its the pings see
  • QwiXXeRQwiXXeR Join Date: 2004-11-05 Member: 32640Members
    Its a really great editor, and I have tried to put a lot of hours in.
    Yes, ideally I would like to just grey box it all with minimum detail, but then I'm torn because I'm always thinking of some idea and I'm like, oooh, I wanna learn how to do that or see how it looks.
    I don't know if maybe I should go with pure greybox but then have another room somewhere that I brush and prop and light completely so when I'm in that mood I just work on that :P, would make some nice screens too.
    Haha, yes they are a bit, I've tried to make them darker and reduced the range on the lighting a lot to make it light up the glass chambers more instead.

    Yes I think I will do, Came home on Sunday and you were all testing, of course didn't have the password then but I'l add you on the weekend :)
  • ObliviousSightObliviousSight Join Date: 2012-09-07 Member: 158306Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    What alot of mappers have been doing is to work on the ready room so as to get the style and mood of their level nailed down, so maybe you could use that for when you are feeling creative? What I personally do is to create a small section, say a wall or a pillar on its own, that allows me to practice my geometry and experiment with how I would like the level to look, without throwing it all into the greybox.
  • QwiXXeRQwiXXeR Join Date: 2004-11-05 Member: 32640Members
    Thanx for the idea Oblivious, Decided to revisit my dark box of a ready room haha, and have some fun doing some props and textures (Except the ones on stupid angles around doorway arches :( lol )

    Here's a view of one end of the room, still some work to do on the roof and wall props.
    MOVvdo5.jpg
    Heres a view of the marine side of things, pretty simple but im fairly happy with it.
    l1wpooQ.jpg
    Here is a not so great view into the alien side
    P28fJYz.jpg
    View inside from the roof of the cave, this has some of the themes I want my main alien spawn to have
    sKyd3fR.jpg
    A view closer to the water, you enter and join alien team :)
    mXLgoZK.jpg

  • QwiXXeRQwiXXeR Join Date: 2004-11-05 Member: 32640Members
    Hey guys, Really quick post,
    How "Rough" can a grey box be to be acceptable to play and test ?
    Because I just through the following room together to check sizes and LOS blocking requirements etc which ofcourse needs a lot more work, but could it be ok to playtest ?
    EsF6dBb.jpg
  • Egad!Egad! Join Date: 2011-10-19 Member: 128250Members
    This map looks unbelievably cool. Awesome work.
  • ObliviousSightObliviousSight Join Date: 2012-09-07 Member: 158306Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    NS2_Caged is a good example of a good greybox in my opinion. Take a look at it and you should have a fair idea of how far you need to go. But I would say that what you have looks fine to test.
  • QwiXXeRQwiXXeR Join Date: 2004-11-05 Member: 32640Members
    Yes, Caged of course looks like great example of a grey box but then there is the added benefit of most of the geometry shape coming from the original :)
    Would be nice if I could greybox up geometry like that on the first pass without putting a lot more thought into how the final room will look :)
  • FlaterectomyFlaterectomy Netherlandistan Join Date: 2005-02-03 Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    Indeed, I had it easy with Caged as all I had to do was copy the original geometry. I cut some corners here and there, but much of it is simply what the original looked like.

    The primary problem with greyboxed testing seems to be that aliens do not blend into the environment at all (combination of lack of textures and often very bright areas), making them easy to spot, and a basic greyboxed map in its early stages will likely mostly have straight, rectangular corridors with no wall/ceiling cover. You can drop some crates on the floor to add cover for aliens there, but the other surfaces are often neglected at this stage and perfectly flat. An easy solution here is to extrude some squares in your walls/ceilings in strategic locations to give skulks a better chance at ambushing, etc.

    To answer your question more directly, I think you can start as soon as the map is fully albeit simply greyboxed, as maptesting will likely inform you where you may need to add some additional temporary wall/ceiling cover.
  • QwiXXeRQwiXXeR Join Date: 2004-11-05 Member: 32640Members
    Thanks for the comments guys :).
    Just a little change to the ready room, its now usable as a RR
    cS0iRbV.jpg
  • MisterYoonMisterYoon Join Date: 2012-08-18 Member: 155747Members
    omg is that a readyroom? That just let us know how good you are at mapping. I hope you good luck with this map!
  • AurOn2AurOn2 COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS! Australia Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
    he must be lying about the greyboxing, he has a finished map and hes teasing us with year old phootage! RAWR!
  • QwiXXeRQwiXXeR Join Date: 2004-11-05 Member: 32640Members
    Haha, thank for the comments :P, unfortunately I am still greyboxxing :(
    Finding it hard to do the cave/alien sides of the map because they need to look more natural and not boxxy, but it needs to be boxxy to greybox and get it done lol :P. Just doesnt look rite ATM.

    I have 1 more tech room to do and then a RT room to do, Then I'll post a new overview of how its evolved.
    Like after reading that mapping guideline I have dropped the entrances to starting tech points to just 2.
  • QwiXXeRQwiXXeR Join Date: 2004-11-05 Member: 32640Members
    Hi all

    Unfortuantely got some bad news :(
    My SSD drive which my map was on died last night and unfortunately I had not uploaded it to the workshop or anything .

    So I'm going to have to start from scratch, with just my memories and the screenshots I posted here.

    Luckily I had really only just finished grey boxxing but still a lot of time lost.
  • DarkSeraphDarkSeraph Join Date: 2004-06-07 Member: 29174Members
    Ouch that really sucks man, sorry to hear. I backup my drives, but also keep a backup of my mapping stuff on Dropbox. So at most I'll only lose a couple days worth of work.
  • QwiXXeRQwiXXeR Join Date: 2004-11-05 Member: 32640Members
    lessoned learned :P , RMA is picking up the drive 2moro, I keep a backup OS on another drive so I can atleast reinstall ns2 there as temp and start mapping :P
  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Members
    Some really cool details in this map. Like that rock collapsed on the walk way.
  • QwiXXeRQwiXXeR Join Date: 2004-11-05 Member: 32640Members
    Well after losing my entire map, I decided to spend some time working on one of my RT rooms so I could just have some fun before greyboxxing out the rest of the map, Here is some WIP shots from Living Qaurters.
    Still lots of work to do, you can ignore the CC/Hive in the background its just so i can test the map :)
    dvIA3Hs.jpg
    qkPfN2w.jpg
    APSsyMI.jpg
  • QwiXXeRQwiXXeR Join Date: 2004-11-05 Member: 32640Members
    Tried to warm the room up a little with a more red light coming in from space ans some little yellow lights on the raised walkway.
    Also textures more, put some columns in and changed the roof from being so flat
    oudLpeH.jpg
    CxiuwxX.jpg
  • QwiXXeRQwiXXeR Join Date: 2004-11-05 Member: 32640Members
    edited April 2013
    Update 29/03/2013 - I lost my map due to HDD crash and have had to restart :(
    Ive posted a little nosound video of the Living quarters which I did after the crash just to get back into things before I greybox the map... again :P, hopefully quicker this time.
    Also the layout flow in the OP does not represent what I had before and am now aiming for so I will update that in the future, hopefully with a eagle eye of the greybox.

  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Members
    Really nice overall. Maybe a little too grey? The ceiling at 0:17 is strange.
  • killer monkeykiller monkey Join Date: 2010-02-26 Member: 70743Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    The lighting should be more uniform, if its blue/green and yellow/orange then keep it at that, dont put red in there or white/gray
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