As it stands Rifle Butt isn't very useful at all, you save minimal time by using it instead of swapping to knife or pistol. It does less damage, but in an absolute emergency it can save you, you can also spam it if a skulk gets in very close range before you've emptied your clip, if you're lucky you'll do a bit of damage before you die or line up another shot on them.
As stated above, when it comes down to the current game mechanics, axe is higher damage, but costs you time to swap between.
I really think that modifying the knock back function, and Rifle Butt overall, would introduce some very interesting gameplay elemens.
For example let's say Rifle Butt got changed as such:
Only registers if there is a direct hit,
Damage dealt is the same,
Knock back distance = skulk bite range (no stun)
Melee fatigue, to prevent players from spamming the attack.
We'd see more intense up close and personal fights between players, it would give players a small window of opportunity to save their own lives (Say near doors which can be shut, or by objects which they can uses to obstruct the attacker's paths) and generally give marines a bit more control over what is thrown at them then what they currently have.
This all being said, Marines have been getting many many buffs while aliens get slowly nerfed to even things out, and we still have a very large patch coming to the game (I believe) that is going to introduce even more variables that we'll all be dealing with. There could be quite a few things in it that make this ability, or any other changes that would make playing the game we know now very inconvenient after that patch comes in.
Before Marines get too many fixes and buffs (Even though they've technically got the short end of the stick as far as the large majority of NS2 players are concerned) before any major gameplay changes come in we should see what gets added as far as units, etc.
Might have run off topic with this, am sick currently, but hope it's an interesting post to read.
You could think about purchasing a shotgun instead of your LMG. Then your 'rifle butt' could decorate the halls of your starship with a fine layer of skulk innards.
It's not a meaty attack or anything, but you had 50 bullets to seal the deal and you already $%*&ed that up. You should be happy you can repurpose your rifle for anything other than throwing it at the skulk while making girly man noises in the hope its distracted long enough to draw your pistol, soldier!
Those bullets cost the Colonial Marines fifteen thousand dollars per round. I hope you can sleep at night knowing children starved for that wasted ammo! If you had any conscience at all, you would club every mother lovin' Skulk to death and thank God we created your @$$ out of nanites in the first place!
I use it all the time. I find it easy to land on jumping skulks, but not lethal to be a reliable means of defense. It saves ammo and puts 2 free LMG rounds' worth of damage on target. The trade off is you're probably going to get bit, and alien melee is much more deadly. It is relatively easy to land, so I'm dubious about buffing it. I feel a more damaging rifle butt attack should be balanced by a longer wind-up time, longer cooldown, or temporary slow debuff to prevent 'no-skill rifle butt spam'.
Single dual exo, since the jp+sg costs more than half of a one gunner. You may as well forget the fist exo even exists for what it's worth unless the com is dropping it.
Exos aren't worthless though, they provide the meat that makes a JP assault work instead of just melting back at the first sign of trouble. They fill the tank player role, giving the aliens something to target that isn't the even squishier marines and the marines something to rally around.
They're not exactly tanks when it takes a single Skulk seven seconds to kill an A3 Exo.
Oni are tanks. Exos are giant metal deathtraps.
Without support. With support it can last forever, partly because marines are capable of healing it to full, unlike other marines. A tank in an WoW dies in even fewer seconds without support. Like I said it's a focus point for the aliens and a rally point for the marines.
Before I always used the rifle-butt. Now I always change to pistol right after an empty lmg clip. It's just too damn risky. One time I killed a drifter with the rifle-butt. Almost thought it was OP.
if you could whack people away from you (NO STUN) It would be significantly more useful.
volcano, that glitch only worked if you jumped into an ip/pg and you went flying out the other end, right? So if you are jumping at someone to bite them and they riflebutt you, logically, you will get thrown backwards hence not gain momentum?
......
ERMAGHERD BIG WURDS.
You know that was not the only glitch, sure it provided some laughs at times but its not something that ever seemed to work right.
I was glad to see it removed from IP's and PG's...but that was the tail end of a series of challenges with that mechanic and you know it.
I used it all the time when it was knockback + stun but now it's better to just switch to the pistol. They nerfed it up to the point where it's so situational that it may as well not exist at all.
Single dual exo, since the jp+sg costs more than half of a one gunner. You may as well forget the fist exo even exists for what it's worth unless the com is dropping it.
Exos aren't worthless though, they provide the meat that makes a JP assault work instead of just melting back at the first sign of trouble. They fill the tank player role, giving the aliens something to target that isn't the even squishier marines and the marines something to rally around.
They're not exactly tanks when it takes a single Skulk seven seconds to kill an A3 Exo.
Oni are tanks. Exos are giant metal deathtraps.
Without support. With support it can last forever, partly because marines are capable of healing it to full, unlike other marines. A tank in an WoW dies in even fewer seconds without support. Like I said it's a focus point for the aliens and a rally point for the marines.
The difference between a game-changing Exo and a useless Exo is their ability to shoot skulks at their own feet. It's amazing to me how many players are still awful at doing that. It's actually quite easy if you simply take your time and aim carefully instead of spamming bullets in a panic.
Now to drag this back on topic, it's much the same with marines shooting skulks at their own feet!
I figured out an intresting bug with the bash.
If you reload, the reload is actually shorter that it's animation. To be precise, at the point where the marine shuts the holding mechanism for the mag (makes sence, eh?).
Bashing at that point will cancel the animation, but the reload it done and the weapon is ready to fire.
Futhermore, if your mag is completly empty (I've had it happen wit differently filled mags too, but not always), and you reload, but hold fire and execute the cancel above, you will actually fire during the bash.
I only did this in pregame fights (aka. goddammit someone go com), so I can't say if the shots fired actually deal damage, same for the bash. Gotta try it out...
Single dual exo, since the jp+sg costs more than half of a one gunner. You may as well forget the fist exo even exists for what it's worth unless the com is dropping it.
Exos aren't worthless though, they provide the meat that makes a JP assault work instead of just melting back at the first sign of trouble. They fill the tank player role, giving the aliens something to target that isn't the even squishier marines and the marines something to rally around.
They're not exactly tanks when it takes a single Skulk seven seconds to kill an A3 Exo.
Oni are tanks. Exos are giant metal deathtraps.
Without support. With support it can last forever, partly because marines are capable of healing it to full, unlike other marines. A tank in an WoW dies in even fewer seconds without support. Like I said it's a focus point for the aliens and a rally point for the marines.
The amount of support that it takes to keep up an Exo means that if you're doing that, you have neither the force to properly pressure the Aliens (Exos are far too slow) or defend your bases. Meanwhile an Onos will crush a Marine position, support optional.
It's never worth buying an Exo when you can get a Jetpack + Anything both earlier and cheaper, while also being more effective than an Exo will ever be.
Single dual exo, since the jp+sg costs more than half of a one gunner. You may as well forget the fist exo even exists for what it's worth unless the com is dropping it.
Exos aren't worthless though, they provide the meat that makes a JP assault work instead of just melting back at the first sign of trouble. They fill the tank player role, giving the aliens something to target that isn't the even squishier marines and the marines something to rally around.
They're not exactly tanks when it takes a single Skulk seven seconds to kill an A3 Exo.
Oni are tanks. Exos are giant metal deathtraps.
Without support. With support it can last forever, partly because marines are capable of healing it to full, unlike other marines. A tank in an WoW dies in even fewer seconds without support. Like I said it's a focus point for the aliens and a rally point for the marines.
The amount of support that it takes to keep up an Exo means that if you're doing that, you have neither the force to properly pressure the Aliens (Exos are far too slow) or defend your bases. Meanwhile an Onos will crush a Marine position, support optional.
It's never worth buying an Exo when you can get a Jetpack + Anything both earlier and cheaper, while also being more effective than an Exo will ever be.
I don't ever research exos, arcs are just as good if not better. Also if you tell everyone throughout the game that they are not getting exos, not now, not in 10 minutes, not ever, you have slightly more chance of convincing them to buy mines.
I figured out an intresting bug with the bash.
If you reload, the reload is actually shorter that it's animation. To be precise, at the point where the marine shuts the holding mechanism for the mag (makes sence, eh?).
Bashing at that point will cancel the animation, but the reload it done and the weapon is ready to fire.
Futhermore, if your mag is completly empty (I've had it happen wit differently filled mags too, but not always), and you reload, but hold fire and execute the cancel above, you will actually fire during the bash.
I only did this in pregame fights (aka. goddammit someone go com), so I can't say if the shots fired actually deal damage, same for the bash. Gotta try it out...
Once you confirm it, let one of the playtesters/devs know.
People need to consider, that melee is alien territory. Think of it this way: A marine can dodge. He can position himself good to keep aliens at distance. In short: With skill, you can use your range advantage to avoid attacks from the alien.
On the other side, the alien needs to get close to you, to do damage. It sure can avoid your bullets by dodging too. But as soon as it has overcome this hurdle, it should be in the advantage. The alien can't do anything against a rifle butt. Thats why it was nerved so hard.
---
This said, I agree that it may be nerved to hard right now. Not in terms of damage. Actually I think it should do no damage. But instead it should be able to throw back jumping / leaping skulks. It should have a very narrow hit-cone.
Why? Now we have a skill-demanding mechanic that lessens the impact of Leap. It can't be used to kill your opponent. But to get a little bit of distance against aliens that are not on the ground, is a situational and interesting mechanic. It's only important, that the alien can do something to avoid it (=sticking to the ground) and that it is not to easy to execute. You would need to aim properly.
People need to consider, that melee is alien territory. Think of it this way: A marine can dodge. He can position himself good to keep aliens at distance. In short: With skill, you can use your range advantage to avoid attacks from the alien.
On the other side, the alien needs to get close to you, to do damage. It sure can avoid your bullets by dodging too. But as soon as it has overcome this hurdle, it should be in the advantage. The alien can't do anything against a rifle butt. Thats why it was nerved so hard.
---
This said, I agree that it may be nerved to hard right now. Not in terms of damage. Actually I think it should do no damage. But instead it should be able to throw back jumping / leaping skulks. It should have a very narrow hit-cone.
Why? Now we have a skill-demanding mechanic that lessens the impact of Leap. It can't be used to kill your opponent. But to get a little bit of distance against aliens that are not on the ground, is a situational and interesting mechanic. It's only important, that the alien can do something to avoid it (=sticking to the ground) and that it is not to easy to execute. You would need to aim properly.
I don't like this idea: one of the challenges of good skulk play is to make sure you're as difficult to hit as possible - especially when you're against decent marines, this is even more important. The use of different heights while attacking (ie not being a ground skulk) is just about the only thing a good skulk can do against a decent marine to avoid certain slaughter. To basically require skulks to play in one way or risk being batted away only to be shot like a clay pigeon just seems too restrictive to me.
Comments
As stated above, when it comes down to the current game mechanics, axe is higher damage, but costs you time to swap between.
I really think that modifying the knock back function, and Rifle Butt overall, would introduce some very interesting gameplay elemens.
For example let's say Rifle Butt got changed as such:
Only registers if there is a direct hit,
Damage dealt is the same,
Knock back distance = skulk bite range (no stun)
Melee fatigue, to prevent players from spamming the attack.
We'd see more intense up close and personal fights between players, it would give players a small window of opportunity to save their own lives (Say near doors which can be shut, or by objects which they can uses to obstruct the attacker's paths) and generally give marines a bit more control over what is thrown at them then what they currently have.
This all being said, Marines have been getting many many buffs while aliens get slowly nerfed to even things out, and we still have a very large patch coming to the game (I believe) that is going to introduce even more variables that we'll all be dealing with. There could be quite a few things in it that make this ability, or any other changes that would make playing the game we know now very inconvenient after that patch comes in.
Before Marines get too many fixes and buffs (Even though they've technically got the short end of the stick as far as the large majority of NS2 players are concerned) before any major gameplay changes come in we should see what gets added as far as units, etc.
Might have run off topic with this, am sick currently, but hope it's an interesting post to read.
It's not a meaty attack or anything, but you had 50 bullets to seal the deal and you already $%*&ed that up. You should be happy you can repurpose your rifle for anything other than throwing it at the skulk while making girly man noises in the hope its distracted long enough to draw your pistol, soldier!
Those bullets cost the Colonial Marines fifteen thousand dollars per round. I hope you can sleep at night knowing children starved for that wasted ammo! If you had any conscience at all, you would club every mother lovin' Skulk to death and thank God we created your @$$ out of nanites in the first place!
I got these angry marines gloves, I'd really like to utilize those to their full potential.
Without support. With support it can last forever, partly because marines are capable of healing it to full, unlike other marines. A tank in an WoW dies in even fewer seconds without support. Like I said it's a focus point for the aliens and a rally point for the marines.
This totally needs reconsidering. +1 for OP.
I was glad to see it removed from IP's and PG's...but that was the tail end of a series of challenges with that mechanic and you know it.
The difference between a game-changing Exo and a useless Exo is their ability to shoot skulks at their own feet. It's amazing to me how many players are still awful at doing that. It's actually quite easy if you simply take your time and aim carefully instead of spamming bullets in a panic.
Now to drag this back on topic, it's much the same with marines shooting skulks at their own feet!
Does the rifle butt technique consume less time than the normal reload or simply allow you to get an attack in and reload?
If you reload, the reload is actually shorter that it's animation. To be precise, at the point where the marine shuts the holding mechanism for the mag (makes sence, eh?).
Bashing at that point will cancel the animation, but the reload it done and the weapon is ready to fire.
Futhermore, if your mag is completly empty (I've had it happen wit differently filled mags too, but not always), and you reload, but hold fire and execute the cancel above, you will actually fire during the bash.
I only did this in pregame fights (aka. goddammit someone go com), so I can't say if the shots fired actually deal damage, same for the bash. Gotta try it out...
The amount of support that it takes to keep up an Exo means that if you're doing that, you have neither the force to properly pressure the Aliens (Exos are far too slow) or defend your bases. Meanwhile an Onos will crush a Marine position, support optional.
It's never worth buying an Exo when you can get a Jetpack + Anything both earlier and cheaper, while also being more effective than an Exo will ever be.
It has it's applications.
I don't ever research exos, arcs are just as good if not better. Also if you tell everyone throughout the game that they are not getting exos, not now, not in 10 minutes, not ever, you have slightly more chance of convincing them to buy mines.
Once you confirm it, let one of the playtesters/devs know.
Confirmed! The timing is really easy to pick up too. Even in high intensity combat. Enjoy it while it lasts!
Lol, should I have said anything?
On the other side, the alien needs to get close to you, to do damage. It sure can avoid your bullets by dodging too. But as soon as it has overcome this hurdle, it should be in the advantage. The alien can't do anything against a rifle butt. Thats why it was nerved so hard.
---
This said, I agree that it may be nerved to hard right now. Not in terms of damage. Actually I think it should do no damage. But instead it should be able to throw back jumping / leaping skulks. It should have a very narrow hit-cone.
Why? Now we have a skill-demanding mechanic that lessens the impact of Leap. It can't be used to kill your opponent. But to get a little bit of distance against aliens that are not on the ground, is a situational and interesting mechanic. It's only important, that the alien can do something to avoid it (=sticking to the ground) and that it is not to easy to execute. You would need to aim properly.
I don't like this idea: one of the challenges of good skulk play is to make sure you're as difficult to hit as possible - especially when you're against decent marines, this is even more important. The use of different heights while attacking (ie not being a ground skulk) is just about the only thing a good skulk can do against a decent marine to avoid certain slaughter. To basically require skulks to play in one way or risk being batted away only to be shot like a clay pigeon just seems too restrictive to me.
Heh, not in public. Maybe it will get left in as a skill. I wonder if reload speed is someting they might tweak any way for early game balance.