Suggestion for Exos v2.0
Benson
Join Date: 2012-03-07 Member: 148303Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
Join Date: 2012-03-07 Member: 148303Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
Here is a way to turn Exos from Battle Mech into Heavy Marine
First:
Make Exo minigun damage normal type (currently Heavy). This will make armor on all lifeforms more effective, this way Exos can't kill fades like lmgs kill skulks, and take hive down in 20 seconds by themselves. Keep fist as is dealing Heavy damage, to make it more useful.
This would let HP armor values be balanced so that each weapon can be useful, and the damage isn't so crazy that only onos can fight Exos for more than 2 seconds.
Second:
Make Exos modular. Buy a Dual fist Exo for 25 Res, and additional weapons for 25 each, using the proto lab as an armory. Due to the proposed damage type changes, dual fists dealing heavy damage would still be viable for most lifeforms.
This also allows for additional weapons to be added easily and make all Exos viable, since they could easily upgrade their weapons. Additional weapons could include the Railgun, a Heavy Flamethrower, or Heavy welder capable of building, basically turning the Exo into a heavy marine.
The second part of this would be giving each Exo weapon a weight, just like light marines. This means that a dual fist Exo would move considerably faster than a dual-weapon Exo, and single Exos would move noticeably faster than duals. Railguns would weigh more than miniguns. Heavy welders would weigh a little more than a fist, giving each variant unique mobility.
First:
Make Exo minigun damage normal type (currently Heavy). This will make armor on all lifeforms more effective, this way Exos can't kill fades like lmgs kill skulks, and take hive down in 20 seconds by themselves. Keep fist as is dealing Heavy damage, to make it more useful.
This would let HP armor values be balanced so that each weapon can be useful, and the damage isn't so crazy that only onos can fight Exos for more than 2 seconds.
Second:
Make Exos modular. Buy a Dual fist Exo for 25 Res, and additional weapons for 25 each, using the proto lab as an armory. Due to the proposed damage type changes, dual fists dealing heavy damage would still be viable for most lifeforms.
This also allows for additional weapons to be added easily and make all Exos viable, since they could easily upgrade their weapons. Additional weapons could include the Railgun, a Heavy Flamethrower, or Heavy welder capable of building, basically turning the Exo into a heavy marine.
The second part of this would be giving each Exo weapon a weight, just like light marines. This means that a dual fist Exo would move considerably faster than a dual-weapon Exo, and single Exos would move noticeably faster than duals. Railguns would weigh more than miniguns. Heavy welders would weigh a little more than a fist, giving each variant unique mobility.
Comments
The one thing that the other team has that scares the shit out of you.
I'm getting your point but you can't bring in a mech without any weapon! I know what your intentions are regarding balance and damage-dealing but let's not forget that this is a military weapon/robot/vehicle. It would be as ridiculous as a battle tank without a cannon.
@Frothy
exactly!
The dual fist still dealing heavy damage would make it good vs all the melee lifeforms except Onos (I like punching fades to death), but more importantly, allows for full customization of weapons since it would be 2 "empty" slots, it could just be bought for 50, and get 1 free weapon, or something. I would like to see the fist be on par with the guns, just lacking range. Hell they could even do structure damage and we could see siegebreaker Exos ripping down hives. But the fists aren't really that important.
Also, allowing them to have flamethrowers and welders would also increase their utility and survivability making a pair of minigun/welder exos amazing and no longer a liability (beacon = a bunch of dead Exos). In addition, having a welder/gun setup would allow the Exo to move faster, allowing a tradeoff to minimize the unable to phase part of Exos. It would have to be a noticable difference though.
Main reason for these suggestions are i fear we are going to have proto labs with too many redundant options. 1 Mini Exo, 2 Mini Exo, Railgun Exo, Dual Railgun Exo, and i dont even know if theres going to be Railgun/Minigun Exo. Seems inefficient to have so many options and not allow for customization of loadouts. I'd rather see: JP and EXO, with EXO selected, get a buy menu in the description area. Personally I'd rather have heavy marines than Battle Mechs.
I don't get scared by oni as much as I do by fades. You can kite/avoid a good onos. You can't kite/avoid a good fade.
Also, exos are laughable. All you have to do is hit the tech points where they aren't and replace the hives as they get taken down and generally you win on balanced teams.
The suggestion to move exo damage to normal is terrible beyond belief. Exos are meant to kill hives and oni. That's their job and purpose. Removing heavy damage would mean that a dual exo can't shoot down a carapace onos in one salvo and make them even more useless than they are right now.
Exos aren't supposed to deal with fades either. Jetpackshotgunners are.
Is it still ridiculous when you factor in what i said about rebalancing the HP/Armor values of lifeforms?
Are you OK with the fist being useless?
Are you OK with Exos being an enourmous liability due to REQUIREING support to function?
-- Onos does not require support, but is much more effective when it has it.
Exos are supposed to only kill Onoses and Hives?
I was under the impression that Exos were supposed to be the marine assault unit, I had no idea they weren't supposed to kill skulks, gorges, lerks, or fades.
So, yeah. Thanks for the input.
Seems like everyone only sees what they want to...
The double Claw (fist) exo variant would function as a relatively cheap and fast (for an exo) meat shield protecting the infantry behind it and clearing Whips and other structures. The main idea here, however, is not introducing the double Claw variant itself, but rather having it as a stepping stone enabling full exo customization.
Changing the Minigun damage type also seems a sound idea when we take into account the soon-to-arrive Railguns. Railguns will likely be strong anti armor weapons and so Miniguns could take the role of general meat grinders.
Heavy Welders would be a very interesting option, giving the exos some more staying power without Marine support but reducing the firepower at the same time. Also, giving exos the option to be able to construct buildings is very important in my opinion, seeing as most Marine teams struggle to maintain their infrastructure even with pure infantry compositions. Heavy Welders would make exos less a liability and more an actual fighting force capable of taking and securing locations.
I'm not sure a Heavy Flamethrower is a good idea, though. Its anti-building utility is already fulfilled by the Claw and the Minigun is very similar as an anti-lifeform weapon. Improved Cyst clearing could be done using the Heavy Welder. Also, I believe it would make it too easy for an exo to defend against Skulks that managed to get into close range.
I second this.It's called Natural Selection for a reason.. the clue is in the name.. The whole point of the game is team play. You can't go and kill the opposition with a lone exo; just as you can't with an onos.. You have to band together.
It does take a while to save up for an exo but the satisfaction it ultimately brings is well worth the res.
It's currently a very well balanced game. Once both teams are at maximum it gets interesting because you have to think quicker and work faster to outsmart the opposition.
All the aliens have to do is kill power nodes and that makes pretty much all the machinery in the room redundant.
What the marines have to do IMO is a lot harder as aliens have cloaking speed and silence so as long as your com is clever enough to deploy a few scanners then you can see what's coming otherwise you are in the dark.
I don't think you realize how damaging a couple of skulks are to an exo either.
I'm sure UWE played with the exo stats quite a bit before unleashing the exo on the aliens.
An Onos can easily take a couple of Marines on its own, especially with Stomp, while a single Skulk can be a serious problem to a lone Exo. So yes, you can kill the opposition with a lone Onos just fine if you play cautiously.
I'm not saying that Exos should have the same role and capabilities that the Oni have. No. I understand that Exos are slow siege units that need support to be effective. That's fine. However, as it currently stands, Exos require too much support and are too helpless without it for their cost. Not to mention they limit the team's ability to maintain their infrastructure because they can't build, repair or quickly react to distant threats (no beacon or phasing). Adding some versatility would certainly help to make Exos a more worthwhile investment for the Marine team. Currently Jetpacks are almost always a better choice.
Correct, the game does require teamwork. Which is why I feel it would be OK to have Exos welding eachother (teamwork)
I have walked into a base many times as an onos and taken down the obs, then PG by myself. The onos can take and deal a ridiculous amount of damage, and when coupled with regen, allows an onos to practically never leave, so long as he is left alone for 4 seconds. In addition to this, if the onos does get caught alone, it has MUCH more mobility (charge + celerity = bullet-train onos) and can easily escape anything but JPs (and sometimes even escape JPs).
I absolutely realise how devestating a pair of skulks can be to an Exo, which is why I feel extra mobility for less heavy guns is very good thing. Exos would be able to use a heavy welder to kill skulks at their feet, or be able to turn/jump jet away faster to get a clear shot at them, idealy
I dont think UWE really did play with the numbers enough before releasing the Exo. When the Exo was released, they hadn't adjusted the Onos' HP/Armor values which lead to onoses literally living .5 sec against a dual exo. The Onos had a mechanic called Hide Armor which helped it absorb bullets from LMGs, giving it much more effective HP vs light marines, but not so much as to be ridiculous. Since Exo miniguns dealt heavy damage, they wern't affected by this mechanic, so UWE just gave the Onos some steroids and called it a day, rather than adjusting the damage on the Minigun, or factoring in existing mechanics (one of the few things they've done wrong imo). Personally, I felt the onos fit its role much better pre-Exo.
Build exos solely dedicated to taking out ONOS!
I love this idea by the way. Exos should be able to have LMGS, fists, grenade launches, shotguns, rail guns, etc...
One of my biggest issues with Exos atm is that thats what they are anyway
I'm hoping to change the functionality of Exos and make them more widely used, and useful overall!
How about a flak cannon instead, for those pesky lerks sporing your light marines, give Exos AA guns too!
And I think welding Exos shouldn't take that long. Or Exos get the ability/upgrade (tres) to slowly self-repair (proportional rate to current hp, which means: very low = high self-repair rate, moderate = moderate self-repair rate, high = low self-repair rate)
¹ when it has that same speed for any direction already, nevermind!