This is why I compare the commander to a GM, their purpose is to take everyone's differing ideas of fun, and make decisions which either work for everyone, or at least work for as many as possible.
GM: Okay guys, you see an Army of Orcs in front of you, and a Dragon approaching on the Horizon. What do you do?
Players: I ready my Fireball! I prepare Healing Spells! I ready my bow! I draw my sword!
GM: You know guys, I'm the GM and I know whats coming. You all die, get ready to roll up new characters.
Players: "WHAT?!?"
GM: I'm the GM, you guys made me the GM. I have more knowledge than you about what is going on. I know what fun is. You won't win, it won't be fun. Just roll up new characters. I'm bored with this game and so should you be.
This doesn't sound like any table top RPG I have ever played...
That's... kind of exactly what a GM is allowed to do, that's why the phrase 'rocks fall everybody dies' exists.
Of course that sort of adversarial GMing is considered a bad idea by anybody who plays tabletop RPGs, but the point is, and this is the point I'm trying to make, that doesn't mean it is wrong for a GM to have absolute power, it means only that it is entirely possible for you to have a bad GM.
The GM having absolute power over the game is a necessary part of having the game operate smoothly. If you have problems with the GM repeatedly making bad decisions, don't play with them any more. If the GM keeps dropping a tarrasque on the tavern where you start because he thinks it's funny, the GM is dumb, if the GM suggests, after a party wipe against a reasonable encounter, that you maybe try another system, the GM is trying to keep it interesting for you.
Same goes for commanders. If your commander keeps doing dumb stuff like recycling the minute a marine loses the first engagement vs a skulk, that commander is a dumb commander and you should replace him. If he recycles because you obviously lost and it's time to start the next round, that commander is... well pretty normal for someone playing a strategy game.
That's... kind of exactly what a GM is allowed to do, that's why the phrase 'rocks fall everybody dies' exists.
Of course that sort of adversarial GMing is considered a bad idea by anybody who plays tabletop RPGs, but the point is, and this is the point I'm trying to make, that doesn't mean it is wrong for a GM to have absolute power, it means only that it is entirely possible for you to have a bad GM.
The GM having absolute power over the game is a necessary part of having the game operate smoothly. If you have problems with the GM repeatedly making bad decisions, don't play with them any more. If the GM keeps dropping a tarrasque on the tavern where you start because he thinks it's funny, the GM is dumb, if the GM suggests, after a party wipe against a reasonable encounter, that you maybe try another system, the GM is trying to keep it interesting for you.
Same goes for commanders. If your commander keeps doing dumb stuff like recycling the minute a marine loses the first engagement vs a skulk, that commander is a dumb commander and you should replace him. If he recycles because you obviously lost and it's time to start the next round, that commander is... well pretty normal for someone playing a strategy game.
True enough; however, there does exist a sort of "social contract" between GM and Players (and to extend the analogy between Com and Marines). The players "give" that power to the GM trusting that they won't abuse it and that the GM has the players' fun and best interests in mind.
Trust and the internet are not so friendly. More needs to be done to protect that trust in a consequence free environment such as 1 of hundreds of servers. Coms that violate that trust don't just lose 4-5 friends for a RPG on Friday night, they can potentially lose customers for UWE. Allowing such dictatorial control over other people that you don't even know and probably will never meet is a recipe for failure. Steps should be taken to limit the damage one person can do to the game in progress and possibly to the game as a whole.
I am not claiming that this is a rampant problem bringing down every game currently live by any stretch. It is not wide spread, but when it happens it is detrimental.
And as a preemptive strike, we can't require servers to have 24/7/365 admin coverage. We can't simply slough off every problem to "play on better servers". If we do that then server admining will become a full time job, and that will also not bode well for the game.
I think that any attempt to program this troll tactic out of the game will likely result in more frustration for legitimate players than the very rare occurrence of a trollmander recycling both IPs.
I disagree, I dont see why we would allow 1 person to make a decision for the entire team and recycle.
Concede is put in place to ensure a majority want to end the game.
If your in the minority on your team and cant get a concede vote to work then you should either play it out (seeing as thats what everyone else wants to do) or leave the server.
Seriously I cant believe that people are arguing for this to be left in, considering we now have official way to end these long drawn out games (either f4 or vote concede).
You say "legitimate players"...what about us legitimate players who wanted to play out the game?
Why should a minority influence the game experience for the majority?
Sounds like some players people dont understand that not every game needs to be serious.
Some of us play for enjoyment, if thats what the majority of the server wants then thats what they should get.
Their is a reason that the concede vote is not set to say 10% of the players on a team...its to stop 1 or 2 trolls conceding the map for everyone.
Recycle still gives these people that option, get rid of recycle options.
Its only 1 team that can do it...and its most often done to end a game (prior to concede), now you see people conceding rather than recycling (atleast I do on teh aussie servers (though some people need to be told what to do).
You can't believe people don't support restrictions on marine recycle because you don't understand why they want it. To me, this isn't about troll commanders (very, very rare -- I've seen it happen in the single digits out of 1000+ hours played). Vote concede and surrender are irrelevant because this also is not about commanders single handedly ending the game. This is because there are, albeit very rare, circumstances where a commander would legitimately want to recycle something where these restrictions would inevitably get in the way.
The benefit from this is so tiny that it will likely be overshadowed by the annoyance of the feature. I'm not convinced UWE needs to put time into this, nor that it would actually be net beneficial.
Yay...so you want 1 person to be able to end a game...why the heck did UWE not them add teh concede button only to the comm view?
Oh wait...because they believe to concede is not a decision for 1 player, but rather the majority.
I cant believe I actually am in agreement with Savant...that I think indicates that this is more than just whether the marines can concede a game but whether 1 person should be able to end a game without his teams agreement.
Troll or 1337 player who believes the game is over...is the majority of the team does not exist then a recycle should not be able to happen.
Whether this is things not being able to be recycled if in same room as a comm chair or just removing the recycle option all together something has to change.
I am sick of having 1 person decide for everyone else that a game is over, this is a bad mechanic as it ONLY APPLIES TO MARINES.
Aliens can just as easily need to recycle a chamber to drop an RT..but cant. I dont see why marines should get this luxury if aliens dont.
We have F4 and Concede that are for both side to end game that are over...recycling a base is no longer needed and serves only to troll.
A comm doesn't feel like his marines are listening...simply recycles and ends the game...seen it happen and also heard the marines rage in teh RR.
There's really no reason to twist GORGEous' words around in the vain attempt at a valid rebuttal. There is no way for the recycle ability to be restricted enough to stop the commander from ending the game that won't affect recycle as a gameplay mechanic. Even if you were to stop the commander from recycling 2 IPs, 1 Resource Tower, the Armory and the Arms Lab he would still be able to recycle enough to take the Marine team out of the game for good. The only real solution to the problem is either to completely remove recycle from the game or give server admins the ability to disable on their server which would cripple and cause a loss for the Marine team in more cases than the commander recycling all your shit to "troll" you. Most commanders that recycle anyway do it because the game is over and idiots want to play grab ass in Marine Start with Grenade Launchers.
The fact that agree with Savant should clue you in to how wrong you actually are.
Sorry I did not twist Gorgeuos' words, he is saying that 1 person (ie the marine comm) should be able to decide a game is over.
Hello. Real GORGEous here. I never said, nor do I really believe, that 1 person should be able to decide a gamer is over. You didn't twist my words, you just flat out talked past them. I explicitly said that I don't care about it because it isn't a problem. It doesn't happen very often and any attempt to fix it will hurt the marine commander's ability to recycle in legitimate games.
I care more about maintaining the marine commander's ability than I do about fixing a 1 in 1000 troll.
So you care more about 1 person (the comm) than the other 11-23 players in a game and dont believe recycling is an issue, How have I overlooked this?
Sorry but we have more than 2 people playing this game.
The comm is just another player who happened to hop the chair.
They are not some massively smart person whom the rest of the server should bow to (become a server admin if you want to get people to do that).
A commander in no way needs to recycle a base/room with a comm chair in it, if you want to end the game hit the concede buttong and ask your team to do the same.
If that doesn't work it means your in the minority and everyone else wants to keep playing.
That is their right, you should not be able to destroy their game experience.
Its time to actually act like an adult and take into consideration opinions of people on the server other than your own.
If you dont like their decisions then go find another server and a different group of people, there is no reason to allow an egotistical person to recycle everything.
This is not how games should end as their is no consensus from teh players.
ScatterJoin Date: 2012-09-02Member: 157341Members, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2013
Let's rename the commander to elected democratic official just so that mediocre players such as hakenspit and savant feel valued in the team.
It's called a commander for a reason, and there is nothing more annoying than those that didn't assume the responsibility to think that their opinion matters in the game.
Let's rename the commander to elected democratic official just so that mediocre players such as hakenspit and savant feel valued in the team.
It's called a commander for a reason, and there is nothing more annoying than those that didn't assume the responsibility to think that their opinion matters in the game.
It's called commander because he is trying to command you to victory. See my previous comments for why it is completely flawed to apply the same logic to a mechanic that will, absolutely, 100% of the time, lose you the game.
If the game is lost, seek the agreement of your team before ending it. Recycling without asking is rude, presumptuous, and potentially detrimental to many more people's gaming time than the 20s it would have taken you to ASK your team first.
If a marine commander commands the game to its current state he reserves the right to know/judge when its over, GG is GG and if you didn't like it, next time you can command and play it out yourself.
Don't know about you guys, but once the aliens have 4 hives I really don't enjoy the 15 minute turtle some games take to end, there's obviously no chance of a come back, and I don't want to be forced to keep playing a dead game because some people are having fun being raped.
Jesus Christ do you guys not get it? There are already several ways to get out of those situations:
1) VOTE CONCEDE
2) ASK YOUR TEAM IF THEY OBJECT TO YOUR RECYCLING, IF THEY DON'T (they won't), THEN RECYCLE
3) LEAVE THE SERVER
4) F4
Of these, number 2 or number 1 are the ones to choose. CONSULT YOUR TEAM ffs. Seriously. It is SO EASY. SO EASY. Stop being so lazy, and so greedy for the power, and start thinking about other people than yourself. There is an EXCEEDINGLY high chance they will not object to you recycling, but FFS ASK THEM FIRST.
I'm getting really angry with people failing to understand a simple matter of courtesy towards their fellow gamers.
Hey, I'm the guy stuck in the comm chair watching the carnage, and I don't understand how these guys like getting repeatedly onos raped and won't concede (maybe they don't know how?).
I'm getting really angry with people failing to understand a simple matter of courtesy towards their fellow gamers.
Yes, and we are all getting really angry with certain backseat commanders who fail to understand their opinion is moot and point short of ejecting their current commander and doing something about it themselves.
I don't think this mechanic needs to be fixed. Personally I never recycle as commander I just tell my team to vote concede if we lost. If I am tired of commanding and they don't end the game I can jump out. I think recycling is just as fair a decision as the comm though can be frustrating for those who do want to try and dig it out sometimes.
That said I think adding a bunch of arbitrary-ish rules around what can and can't be recycled obfuscates the mechanic. It makes it harder to understand and implement. If all of a sudden recycle is greyed out or missing on a random item it makes the interface more confusing, which is something we should avoid.
Like Chris0123 said people are free to eject him if he recycles and people don't like it. I say keep recycle as is, and ask your comms to keep the game going if that is what you are there for.
I don't think this mechanic needs to be fixed. Personally I never recycle as commander I just tell my team to vote concede if we lost. If I am tired of commanding and they don't end the game I can jump out. I think recycling is just as fair a decision as the comm though can be frustrating for those who do want to try and dig it out sometimes.
That said I think adding a bunch of arbitrary-ish rules around what can and can't be recycled obfuscates the mechanic. It makes it harder to understand and implement. If all of a sudden recycle is greyed out or missing on a random item it makes the interface more confusing, which is something we should avoid.
Like Chris0123 said people are free to eject him if he recycles and people don't like it. I say keep recycle as is, and ask your comms to keep the game going if that is what you are there for.
What can you do after you eject the comm that recycled everything and then spammed med packs?
He has already ended the game as you now have no res, IP's or armoury.
Sorry but there are ways built in to end a game, recycling is really legacy from NS1 where it was much more necessary as marines only had 1 res pool (team res).
We have a range of ways to end a game, with only recycling being the one where 1 person can end the game for the other 11+ people on the server.
As David Gerard penned (possibly quoted) "The problem with common sense is that it isn't (common)"...I think this can be extended to common courtesy Roo as it seems we are somehow in the minority in the belief that we are not the only person in the game.
Everyone else seems to think that by getting into the comm chair they somehow now more or are entitled to more influence than the rest of the server.
I hope UWE recognise the issue and limit what can be recycled and stop allowing 1 person to dictate the game has ended regardless of what the other people on the server want to do.
Hey, I'm the guy stuck in the comm chair watching the carnage...
You'll find the LOG OUT button in the top right corner of your screen in the commander interface.
Should you find yourself in a 'lost cause', get out of the chair. It's that simple. Either someone else will step up and take over - which relieves you of any concern - or the game will collapse very quickly.
Hey, I'm the guy stuck in the comm chair watching the carnage...
You'll find the LOG OUT button in the top right corner of your screen in the commander interface.
Should you find yourself in a 'lost cause', get out of the chair. It's that simple. Either someone else will step up and take over - which relieves you of any concern - or the game will collapse very quickly.
Hey, I'm the guy stuck in the comm chair watching the carnage...
You'll find the LOG OUT button in the top right corner of your screen in the commander interface.
Should you find yourself in a 'lost cause', get out of the chair. It's that simple. Either someone else will step up and take over - which relieves you of any concern - or the game will collapse very quickly.
If you "hop out of the chair" because you don't want to com anymore, the loss instantly becomes your fault.
My favourite are the guys who try to command from the ground.
"Get phase gates."
"Oh, get mines."
"Make sure you get weapons/armour upgrades."
"Are you researching shotguns?"
I usually tell them to shut up, and let me command.
Nothing wrong with more experienced players giving tips and guiding inexperienced commanders, though, now is there?
edit: not calling you inexperienced, just saying that it's just as bad conduct from the commander to tell his team to shut up. Sometimes the best ideas come from ground to top.
Hey, I'm the guy stuck in the comm chair watching the carnage...
You'll find the LOG OUT button in the top right corner of your screen in the commander interface.
Should you find yourself in a 'lost cause', get out of the chair. It's that simple. Either someone else will step up and take over - which relieves you of any concern - or the game will collapse very quickly.
If you "hop out of the chair" because you don't want to com anymore, the loss instantly becomes your fault.
No, your team could have someone else hop in (as often happens when comms rage quit).
Besides which...I dont think recycling everything makes it a team decision or the aliens fault....so if your worried about being blamed for the loss then recycling is not an option either.
My favourite are the guys who try to command from the ground.
"Get phase gates."
"Oh, get mines."
"Make sure you get weapons/armour upgrades."
"Are you researching shotguns?"
I usually tell them to shut up, and let me command.
Nothing wrong with more experienced players giving tips and guiding inexperienced commanders, though, now is there?
edit: not calling you inexperienced, just saying that it's just as bad conduct from the commander to tell his team to shut up. Sometimes the best ideas come from ground to top.
Yeah, but when you're already doing what they're asking for, it's annoying.
Absolutely not. That's like saying if the comm gets disconnected that it's their fault.
Actually that is quite so, besides from being called a "rage-comm" for refusing to play a lost game, your reputation from furthur commanding is tarnished in the view of the people who thought your original opinion was wrong to begin with, children like this are never sated, and for good reason.
Once the comm gets out of the chair they are just another player.
In theory, yes.
In practice, no.
Then you tell them if they think they can do a better job then they can get in the chair. That usually shuts them up pretty quick.
No, they ask you if they should call the Waaaaahmbulance, and then tell the aliens that their comm is QQing, GG, and then they hop in the chair and recycle everything.
I think that any attempt to program this troll tactic out of the game will likely result in more frustration for legitimate players than the very rare occurrence of a trollmander recycling both IPs.
I disagree, I dont see why we would allow 1 person to make a decision for the entire team and recycle.
Concede is put in place to ensure a majority want to end the game.
If your in the minority on your team and cant get a concede vote to work then you should either play it out (seeing as thats what everyone else wants to do) or leave the server.
Seriously I cant believe that people are arguing for this to be left in, considering we now have official way to end these long drawn out games (either f4 or vote concede).
You say "legitimate players"...what about us legitimate players who wanted to play out the game?
Why should a minority influence the game experience for the majority?
Sounds like some players people dont understand that not every game needs to be serious.
Some of us play for enjoyment, if thats what the majority of the server wants then thats what they should get.
Their is a reason that the concede vote is not set to say 10% of the players on a team...its to stop 1 or 2 trolls conceding the map for everyone.
Recycle still gives these people that option, get rid of recycle options.
Its only 1 team that can do it...and its most often done to end a game (prior to concede), now you see people conceding rather than recycling (atleast I do on teh aussie servers (though some people need to be told what to do).
You can't believe people don't support restrictions on marine recycle because you don't understand why they want it. To me, this isn't about troll commanders (very, very rare -- I've seen it happen in the single digits out of 1000+ hours played). Vote concede and surrender are irrelevant because this also is not about commanders single handedly ending the game. This is because there are, albeit very rare, circumstances where a commander would legitimately want to recycle something where these restrictions would inevitably get in the way.
The benefit from this is so tiny that it will likely be overshadowed by the annoyance of the feature. I'm not convinced UWE needs to put time into this, nor that it would actually be net beneficial.
Yay...so you want 1 person to be able to end a game...why the heck did UWE not them add teh concede button only to the comm view?
Oh wait...because they believe to concede is not a decision for 1 player, but rather the majority.
I cant believe I actually am in agreement with Savant...that I think indicates that this is more than just whether the marines can concede a game but whether 1 person should be able to end a game without his teams agreement.
Troll or 1337 player who believes the game is over...is the majority of the team does not exist then a recycle should not be able to happen.
Whether this is things not being able to be recycled if in same room as a comm chair or just removing the recycle option all together something has to change.
I am sick of having 1 person decide for everyone else that a game is over, this is a bad mechanic as it ONLY APPLIES TO MARINES.
Aliens can just as easily need to recycle a chamber to drop an RT..but cant. I dont see why marines should get this luxury if aliens dont.
We have F4 and Concede that are for both side to end game that are over...recycling a base is no longer needed and serves only to troll.
A comm doesn't feel like his marines are listening...simply recycles and ends the game...seen it happen and also heard the marines rage in teh RR.
There's really no reason to twist GORGEous' words around in the vain attempt at a valid rebuttal. There is no way for the recycle ability to be restricted enough to stop the commander from ending the game that won't affect recycle as a gameplay mechanic. Even if you were to stop the commander from recycling 2 IPs, 1 Resource Tower, the Armory and the Arms Lab he would still be able to recycle enough to take the Marine team out of the game for good. The only real solution to the problem is either to completely remove recycle from the game or give server admins the ability to disable on their server which would cripple and cause a loss for the Marine team in more cases than the commander recycling all your shit to "troll" you. Most commanders that recycle anyway do it because the game is over and idiots want to play grab ass in Marine Start with Grenade Launchers.
The fact that agree with Savant should clue you in to how wrong you actually are.
Sorry I did not twist Gorgeuos' words, he is saying that 1 person (ie the marine comm) should be able to decide a game is over.
Hello. Real GORGEous here. I never said, nor do I really believe, that 1 person should be able to decide a gamer is over. You didn't twist my words, you just flat out talked past them. I explicitly said that I don't care about it because it isn't a problem. It doesn't happen very often and any attempt to fix it will hurt the marine commander's ability to recycle in legitimate games.
I care more about maintaining the marine commander's ability than I do about fixing a 1 in 1000 troll.
So you care more about 1 person (the comm) than the other 11-23 players in a game and dont believe recycling is an issue, How have I overlooked this?
Sorry but we have more than 2 people playing this game.
The comm is just another player who happened to hop the chair.
They are not some massively smart person whom the rest of the server should bow to (become a server admin if you want to get people to do that).
A commander in no way needs to recycle a base/room with a comm chair in it, if you want to end the game hit the concede buttong and ask your team to do the same.
If that doesn't work it means your in the minority and everyone else wants to keep playing.
That is their right, you should not be able to destroy their game experience.
Its time to actually act like an adult and take into consideration opinions of people on the server other than your own.
If you dont like their decisions then go find another server and a different group of people, there is no reason to allow an egotistical person to recycle everything.
This is not how games should end as their is no consensus from teh players.
For the third time, I don't care about the commander recycling things to end games. You keep talking about this, but I'm not even contesting it. I don't personally think that it is right for a commander to recycle and end the game with vote concede in the game. I think games should be conceded with the vote concede option and not the commander recycling the IPs.
That said (please read it), I still think your/savant's idea to programming limitations on the recycle ability is harmful to the game. You'll break more things than you fix because what you're trying to fix is a borderline nonexistant problem.
Comments
That's... kind of exactly what a GM is allowed to do, that's why the phrase 'rocks fall everybody dies' exists.
Of course that sort of adversarial GMing is considered a bad idea by anybody who plays tabletop RPGs, but the point is, and this is the point I'm trying to make, that doesn't mean it is wrong for a GM to have absolute power, it means only that it is entirely possible for you to have a bad GM.
The GM having absolute power over the game is a necessary part of having the game operate smoothly. If you have problems with the GM repeatedly making bad decisions, don't play with them any more. If the GM keeps dropping a tarrasque on the tavern where you start because he thinks it's funny, the GM is dumb, if the GM suggests, after a party wipe against a reasonable encounter, that you maybe try another system, the GM is trying to keep it interesting for you.
Same goes for commanders. If your commander keeps doing dumb stuff like recycling the minute a marine loses the first engagement vs a skulk, that commander is a dumb commander and you should replace him. If he recycles because you obviously lost and it's time to start the next round, that commander is... well pretty normal for someone playing a strategy game.
There's a specific name for that approach to designing software, and I can't remember what it is, but it basically amounts to 'bloody stupid'.
'Keep throwing more maintenance time at it' is not a good solution to a problem.
True enough; however, there does exist a sort of "social contract" between GM and Players (and to extend the analogy between Com and Marines). The players "give" that power to the GM trusting that they won't abuse it and that the GM has the players' fun and best interests in mind.
Trust and the internet are not so friendly. More needs to be done to protect that trust in a consequence free environment such as 1 of hundreds of servers. Coms that violate that trust don't just lose 4-5 friends for a RPG on Friday night, they can potentially lose customers for UWE. Allowing such dictatorial control over other people that you don't even know and probably will never meet is a recipe for failure. Steps should be taken to limit the damage one person can do to the game in progress and possibly to the game as a whole.
I am not claiming that this is a rampant problem bringing down every game currently live by any stretch. It is not wide spread, but when it happens it is detrimental.
And as a preemptive strike, we can't require servers to have 24/7/365 admin coverage. We can't simply slough off every problem to "play on better servers". If we do that then server admining will become a full time job, and that will also not bode well for the game.
So you care more about 1 person (the comm) than the other 11-23 players in a game and dont believe recycling is an issue, How have I overlooked this?
Sorry but we have more than 2 people playing this game.
The comm is just another player who happened to hop the chair.
They are not some massively smart person whom the rest of the server should bow to (become a server admin if you want to get people to do that).
A commander in no way needs to recycle a base/room with a comm chair in it, if you want to end the game hit the concede buttong and ask your team to do the same.
If that doesn't work it means your in the minority and everyone else wants to keep playing.
That is their right, you should not be able to destroy their game experience.
Its time to actually act like an adult and take into consideration opinions of people on the server other than your own.
If you dont like their decisions then go find another server and a different group of people, there is no reason to allow an egotistical person to recycle everything.
This is not how games should end as their is no consensus from teh players.
It's called a commander for a reason, and there is nothing more annoying than those that didn't assume the responsibility to think that their opinion matters in the game.
It's called commander because he is trying to command you to victory. See my previous comments for why it is completely flawed to apply the same logic to a mechanic that will, absolutely, 100% of the time, lose you the game.
If the game is lost, seek the agreement of your team before ending it. Recycling without asking is rude, presumptuous, and potentially detrimental to many more people's gaming time than the 20s it would have taken you to ASK your team first.
1) VOTE CONCEDE
2) ASK YOUR TEAM IF THEY OBJECT TO YOUR RECYCLING, IF THEY DON'T (they won't), THEN RECYCLE
3) LEAVE THE SERVER
4) F4
Of these, number 2 or number 1 are the ones to choose. CONSULT YOUR TEAM ffs. Seriously. It is SO EASY. SO EASY. Stop being so lazy, and so greedy for the power, and start thinking about other people than yourself. There is an EXCEEDINGLY high chance they will not object to you recycling, but FFS ASK THEM FIRST.
I'm getting really angry with people failing to understand a simple matter of courtesy towards their fellow gamers.
That said I think adding a bunch of arbitrary-ish rules around what can and can't be recycled obfuscates the mechanic. It makes it harder to understand and implement. If all of a sudden recycle is greyed out or missing on a random item it makes the interface more confusing, which is something we should avoid.
Like Chris0123 said people are free to eject him if he recycles and people don't like it. I say keep recycle as is, and ask your comms to keep the game going if that is what you are there for.
What can you do after you eject the comm that recycled everything and then spammed med packs?
He has already ended the game as you now have no res, IP's or armoury.
Sorry but there are ways built in to end a game, recycling is really legacy from NS1 where it was much more necessary as marines only had 1 res pool (team res).
We have a range of ways to end a game, with only recycling being the one where 1 person can end the game for the other 11+ people on the server.
As David Gerard penned (possibly quoted) "The problem with common sense is that it isn't (common)"...I think this can be extended to common courtesy Roo as it seems we are somehow in the minority in the belief that we are not the only person in the game.
Everyone else seems to think that by getting into the comm chair they somehow now more or are entitled to more influence than the rest of the server.
I hope UWE recognise the issue and limit what can be recycled and stop allowing 1 person to dictate the game has ended regardless of what the other people on the server want to do.
Should you find yourself in a 'lost cause', get out of the chair. It's that simple. Either someone else will step up and take over - which relieves you of any concern - or the game will collapse very quickly.
My favourite are the guys who try to command from the ground.
"Get phase gates."
"Oh, get mines."
"Make sure you get weapons/armour upgrades."
"Are you researching shotguns?"
I usually tell them to shut up, and let me command.
Or I could just end it now.
If you "hop out of the chair" because you don't want to com anymore, the loss instantly becomes your fault.
Nothing wrong with more experienced players giving tips and guiding inexperienced commanders, though, now is there?
edit: not calling you inexperienced, just saying that it's just as bad conduct from the commander to tell his team to shut up. Sometimes the best ideas come from ground to top.
No, your team could have someone else hop in (as often happens when comms rage quit).
Besides which...I dont think recycling everything makes it a team decision or the aliens fault....so if your worried about being blamed for the loss then recycling is not an option either.
Yeah, but when you're already doing what they're asking for, it's annoying.
Really annoying when you actually know what you're doing and have a plan though.
Superfluous chatter can cause critical info to be missed.
Is it when these assumed "experienced" players are wrong in the first place.
Once the comm gets out of the chair they are just another player.
Actually that is quite so, besides from being called a "rage-comm" for refusing to play a lost game, your reputation from furthur commanding is tarnished in the view of the people who thought your original opinion was wrong to begin with, children like this are never sated, and for good reason.
In practice, no.
If you hop out of the chair for any reason beyond "They're eating our IPs/Power.", you get yelled at.
No, they ask you if they should call the Waaaaahmbulance, and then tell the aliens that their comm is QQing, GG, and then they hop in the chair and recycle everything.
For the third time, I don't care about the commander recycling things to end games. You keep talking about this, but I'm not even contesting it. I don't personally think that it is right for a commander to recycle and end the game with vote concede in the game. I think games should be conceded with the vote concede option and not the commander recycling the IPs.
That said (please read it), I still think your/savant's idea to programming limitations on the recycle ability is harmful to the game. You'll break more things than you fix because what you're trying to fix is a borderline nonexistant problem.
Please read this post before you respond again.