Whinners just don't get it
UncleCrunch
Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos
Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos
Reading some post, i see that everyone has a rant on something or some class or whatever. Most of the time they talk about experiences that tend to be opposed, like Clanplay vs pub. Gorge need this or that. Fade this, Onos that.
Forgetting the simplest things like player comfort (keyboard bind for one) or simply "performances".
<b>the code have a very big problem</b>
Considering that :
-there is a lot of "occlusion stuff" in maps it seems.
-it's common to see one alien turning around a marine and so on (lag/perf) for minutes sometimes.
-lag shot/one shot all other the place.
-getting stuck all the time if you start to ninja. Sometime you have to avoid the "stuck point" more than alien.
Instead of doing modification to the gameplay for dumbs (i'll explain) which it seems to be the point with those updates; make huge improvements on performances.
Why? The one thing that ppl like is to be able to succeed (even small steps by small steps). To be honest. Killing a marine as alien the "clean way" is more enjoyable than getting one shotted because of lag and perf problems. Good players that just can't do it because of that, just leave. Same on marine side. The performance problem is also responsible for the "hard to finish" symptom. It's so not even laggy sometimes, more "slideshowy" in marine base/hive.
<u>Population:</u>
And now we have on one side +150h players vs rookies (or dumb). One succeed the other one get hammered and finally leave the game too. League games (video) seems to be so boring as all teams do the same "plan" like robots that nobody imagine it's gonna last. It clearly looks like the same symptoms on NS1 except it took less than 2 months to get there.
If one thing; make huge improvements on that performance issue and it'll change the balance so drastically that you gonna have to modify it in favor of alien and or modify maps and give it more "space". We clearly see that players with top of line rigs are able to get the job done (even dumbs).
And it's not about buying a new PC but getting more players (to chew on). And these ones do not come with top of the line rigs.
Forgetting the simplest things like player comfort (keyboard bind for one) or simply "performances".
<b>the code have a very big problem</b>
Considering that :
-there is a lot of "occlusion stuff" in maps it seems.
-it's common to see one alien turning around a marine and so on (lag/perf) for minutes sometimes.
-lag shot/one shot all other the place.
-getting stuck all the time if you start to ninja. Sometime you have to avoid the "stuck point" more than alien.
Instead of doing modification to the gameplay for dumbs (i'll explain) which it seems to be the point with those updates; make huge improvements on performances.
Why? The one thing that ppl like is to be able to succeed (even small steps by small steps). To be honest. Killing a marine as alien the "clean way" is more enjoyable than getting one shotted because of lag and perf problems. Good players that just can't do it because of that, just leave. Same on marine side. The performance problem is also responsible for the "hard to finish" symptom. It's so not even laggy sometimes, more "slideshowy" in marine base/hive.
<u>Population:</u>
And now we have on one side +150h players vs rookies (or dumb). One succeed the other one get hammered and finally leave the game too. League games (video) seems to be so boring as all teams do the same "plan" like robots that nobody imagine it's gonna last. It clearly looks like the same symptoms on NS1 except it took less than 2 months to get there.
If one thing; make huge improvements on that performance issue and it'll change the balance so drastically that you gonna have to modify it in favor of alien and or modify maps and give it more "space". We clearly see that players with top of line rigs are able to get the job done (even dumbs).
And it's not about buying a new PC but getting more players (to chew on). And these ones do not come with top of the line rigs.
Comments
Besides, the performance is an ongoing process, something which isn't just a simple tweak patch to fix the performance.
Not necessarily
<!--quoteo(post=2065157:date=Jan 22 2013, 07:39 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Jan 22 2013, 07:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2065157"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not to mention that people also want more balancing work done and content as you've also mentioned. So everything they devs do go hand in hand. As you've said, better performance has influence over certain balance aspects, so it is all tied together from where I'm standing :)
Besides, the performance is an ongoing process, something which isn't just a simple tweak patch to fix the performance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Still, there is a countdown for every game which is bound to the community. For what i see; it's bleeding.
Players: more player means more average PC. 2 games and you see if you can play it or not. Most of them won't continue.
Maps : Not so easy to do. Open an official map and you'll see that you have to be organized to do one decent map (not a good map, a working one). So maps won't pop up like that. That is another problem.
Do you remember "bomber man (2D)"? That game doesn't need a high end PC, but damn it's fun. Having great graphics is ok but first things first.
Programmers pushing on performance issues would IMO solve a lot of problems.
Please elaborate. When is this not the case? Just fire the art department for the time being?
<!--quoteo(post=2065549:date=Jan 23 2013, 08:12 PM:name=UncleCrunch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (UncleCrunch @ Jan 23 2013, 08:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2065549"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Still, there is a countdown for every game which is bound to the community. For what i see; it's bleeding.
Players: more player means more average PC. 2 games and you see if you can play it or not. Most of them won't continue.
Maps : Not so easy to do. Open an official map and you'll see that you have to be organized to do one decent map (not a good map, a working one). So maps won't pop up like that. That is another problem.
Do you remember "bomber man (2D)"? That game doesn't need a high end PC, but damn it's fun. Having great graphics is ok but first things first.
Programmers pushing on performance issues would IMO solve a lot of problems.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First of all, I wouldn't worry about NS2's expiry date. The next big content patch is just around the corner and I'm sure it will lure a few ppl that went on hiatus back in.
Second: yes, NS2 in 2D would probably have much better performance and devs suck for pushing graphics and game complexity (NS2's ressource demand is NOT about graphics btw)! If you want I can make you a really good deal on my GameBoy (like new, smoke-free household).
But the thing that baffles me the most is that people think performance is such a huge deal in ns2.
I know, I know, you're likely going to go off at me and say something like "BUT SKYRIM 60FPS ETCETC".
You guys have no idea how good ns2 has improved since the early days.
The original alpha ran at like 10fps on hardware similar to my computer. The mid beta (in 2010/2011/early/mid2012) ran at like 30 to 40fps on my computer.
Now it runs almost always at 90fps, dips down to about 70.
On top of that, ns2 used to have a minimum fps of 50 where it went smooth (mouse lag disappeared). They also optimised to bring that down to about 30 to 35, where moving the mouse results in a responsive feeling uh, response.
Can you imagine the complaints if people were getting 35fps and they need 50fps and they're running i5 2500ks and better?
NS2 is "optimised enough" for now, sure, I want them to continue to boost performance always, but it's not such a huge deal anymore.
I used to struggle to hit things with a shotgun due to the constant mouse lag, like a quarter second before the look even moved a bit.
UncleCrunch... what kind of computer are you trying to run this thing on? And what kind of settings? It seems to me you need an upgrade, or at least overclock or lower some settings down.
One more thing, ns2 used to hitch, all the freaking time, like every 10 freaking seconds. You guys have it easy.
edit: I noticed you're account is from 2005, so you probably played the beta and alpha... you're not trying to run ns2 on a computer from 2005 are you?
Perhaps you should work on your communication and critical thinking skills before throwing around that term?
I've even seen a team that was half gorges win several times on aliens, now tell me there's not something wrong here?
Also hit detection is horrible now, I'm getting hit by skulks that are attacking people a skulk length away from me, dodging skulks is nearly impossible now and gorges can solo and heal themselves and outrun humans lol, one other thing gorge damage is 40 human pistol is 30 or 35 I forget.. There have been a few games where I've dropped 1000+ damage into a single gorge that kept running off.
On the alien side I get hit by people just spraying, they can aim straight forward and I'll bite their feet or head and get hit from lag and the terrible hit detection. I understand making it easier on noobs and all but don't dumb the game down because it'll get boring.
I agree modifying the game wasn't needed before the patch, now adding more to the game would be great.
The only thing is the people who speak out are usually the ones who can't win and are just mad cause they're sore losers.
Like I said, I was with a team that owned the humans, we all went human the next round and lost terribly, same players and we did good but aliens are op now.
The performance isn't terrible, I run a 3570k at 4.5ghz with 2 -gtx480s. I can't max the game out unless I want to lag with a full room but I can make it pretty enough to play. That's also something with the drivers that the card manufactures create.
When was the last time as alien you said "damn that infestation bump pixel on the ceiling is hugely well done!". Basically you keep your attention on the game at hand. Same for Chess (another game that is more conceptual than shiny like an android smart phone"). It's the main point. A concept as good as NS is held back by performance issues. It is ok to have good graphics. still, first things first.
<!--quoteo(post=2065797:date=Jan 24 2013, 02:05 AM:name=KwisatzHaderach)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KwisatzHaderach @ Jan 24 2013, 02:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2065797"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->First of all, I wouldn't worry about NS2's expiry date. The next big content patch is just around the corner and I'm sure it will lure a few ppl that went on hiatus back in.
Second: yes, NS2 in 2D would probably have much better performance and devs suck for pushing graphics and game complexity (NS2's ressource demand is NOT about graphics btw)! If you want I can make you a really good deal on my GameBoy (like new, smoke-free household).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If those patches are like the NS1 upgrades; i wouldn't expect much from the hiatus ppl. They come back checking things out but leave faster every time.
If the game demand is not about graphics which IMO is half true; that means code performance is an issue. Same problem. Perf perf perf. Ultimately performances are having an impact on balance. In this case, huge impact.
<!--quoteo(post=2065827:date=Jan 24 2013, 04:26 AM:name=Ironsoul)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ironsoul @ Jan 24 2013, 04:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2065827"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I find it interesting that people are complaining about ns2 performance. It's running quite sophisticated graphics technology and all game logic running in lua is also understandably going to hit performance a bit.
But the thing that baffles me the most is that people think performance is such a huge deal in ns2.
I know, I know, you're likely going to go off at me and say something like "BUT SKYRIM 60FPS ETCETC".
You guys have no idea how good ns2 has improved since the early days.
The original alpha ran at like 10fps on hardware similar to my computer. The mid beta (in 2010/2011/early/mid2012) ran at like 30 to 40fps on my computer.
Now it runs almost always at 90fps, dips down to about 70.
On top of that, ns2 used to have a minimum fps of 50 where it went smooth (mouse lag disappeared). They also optimised to bring that down to about 30 to 35, where moving the mouse results in a responsive feeling uh, response.
Can you imagine the complaints if people were getting 35fps and they need 50fps and they're running i5 2500ks and better?
NS2 is "optimised enough" for now, sure, I want them to continue to boost performance always, but it's not such a huge deal anymore.
I used to struggle to hit things with a shotgun due to the constant mouse lag, like a quarter second before the look even moved a bit.
UncleCrunch... what kind of computer are you trying to run this thing on? And what kind of settings? It seems to me you need an upgrade, or at least overclock or lower some settings down.
One more thing, ns2 used to hitch, all the freaking time, like every 10 freaking seconds. You guys have it easy.
edit: I noticed you're account is from 2005, so you probably played the beta and alpha... you're not trying to run ns2 on a computer from 2005 are you?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, not that old. let's say 2009. and a GC(1go) from 2010. I do have a better grip on the game now as marine (adaptation to FPS drop). And i'm positive that marines can truly win more if performances were here for everybody. Aiming ranged weapon needs FPS. So good marines team will ultimately have a top of the line PC in order to increase their efficiency. That is not exactly the type of guy i often meet in the NS community. It looks like the Diablo III "Visa Mastercard Armor"... Let's add a little more democracy (as "for everyone") in there.
<!--quoteo(post=2066058:date=Jan 24 2013, 03:33 PM:name=Tinker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tinker @ Jan 24 2013, 03:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2066058"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Perhaps you should work on your communication and critical thinking skills before throwing around that term?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
After many years on forums about NS in more than one tong, i can say there are dumb ppl that just don't get it. They are not noobs which i respect, especially when they are open minded and ask what to do or "how to". These are two separate classes.
In fact concerning NS2 play testing we discovered a new dumb "under class". The 12Yo cursing on Vets when they loose games... Do they even lift?
These dumb whined for having camouflage on the forums. guess what...
We still don't have a decent key-binding for commander. Hard coded, "qwerty" bound stuff.
I do believe it is far more difficult to balance Camouflage than key-bindings. As an example.
The more they make noise the more the get what they want; the more it ruins everything.
<!--quoteo(post=2066927:date=Jan 26 2013, 04:31 AM:name=AvastIdiocracy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AvastIdiocracy @ Jan 26 2013, 04:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2066927"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The game before the patch was excellent the only people who complained were the ones who were terrible at alien. Crap alien team with good commander = win almost every time since the patch.
I've even seen a team that was half gorges win several times on aliens, now tell me there's not something wrong here?
Also hit detection is horrible now, I'm getting hit by skulks that are attacking people a skulk length away from me, dodging skulks is nearly impossible now and gorges can solo and heal themselves and outrun humans lol, one other thing gorge damage is 40 human pistol is 30 or 35 I forget.. There have been a few games where I've dropped 1000+ damage into a single gorge that kept running off.
On the alien side I get hit by people just spraying, they can aim straight forward and I'll bite their feet or head and get hit from lag and the terrible hit detection. I understand making it easier on noobs and all but don't dumb the game down because it'll get boring.
I agree modifying the game wasn't needed before the patch, now adding more to the game would be great.
The only thing is the people who speak out are usually the ones who can't win and are just mad cause they're sore losers.
Like I said, I was with a team that owned the humans, we all went human the next round and lost terribly, same players and we did good but aliens are op now.
The performance isn't terrible, I run a 3570k at 4.5ghz with 2 -gtx480s. I can't max the game out unless I want to lag with a full room but I can make it pretty enough to play. That's also something with the drivers that the card manufactures create.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't worry i do not loose game more than i win. I use to kill RTs first if possible.
i'd say 80%/20% on alien side; 50/50% on marine side.
That said : "I run a 3570k at 4.5ghz with 2 -gtx480s" do you own a nuclear power plant also ? (just kidding... still)
I did ask and do agree with ppl that ask for a benching tool on NS2. We would have a better understanding of what's going on.
And i do agree on the fact that it should be more "precise". Even hidden in the dark parasiting a marine (occupied with building a RT, so he's not moving) isn't working at all sometimes. I do have a "crosshair" mod, i can't miss that.