Please optimize the game
lame-o
Join Date: 2010-04-24 Member: 71517Members
Join Date: 2010-04-24 Member: 71517Members
I pre-ordered NS2 in 2010 or whatever and I've tried to play this game since alpha. While the game looks good and is (probably) fun, there's no way in hell I'm going to play it because of the performance issues.
I know the engine was very much a solo effort, but seriously, NS2 is REALLY poorly optimized and as a low/mid-range computer owner I can't be bothered to play in a slideshow.
I know the engine was very much a solo effort, but seriously, NS2 is REALLY poorly optimized and as a low/mid-range computer owner I can't be bothered to play in a slideshow.
Comments
I am on a high-end machine that couldn't play during the early days of Beta for this very reason. It was only recently in the 200 Builds that the game was playable for me.
I know the engine was very much a solo effort, but seriously, NS2 is REALLY poorly optimized and as a low/mid-range computer owner I can't be bothered to play in a slideshow.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What are your system specs?
4650 HD Radeon 2gb vram,
4gb ram
It's a pretty old comp, but I don't see how my specs are relevant since I can play modern games, and I should ideally be able to play NS2 very smoothly.
4650 HD Radeon 2gb vram,
4gb ram
It's a pretty old comp, but I don't see how my specs are relevant since I can play modern games, and I should ideally be able to play NS2 very smoothly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry to have to tell you this but that's a very old comp by today's standards: there are entry level APU's @ 100$ and RAM @ 15$ that outperform your computer in all ways.
and a 2.0 Ghz Quadcore is not horrible... but if it is not one of the the more recent gen of quadcore cpus than you are kind of left behind in almost any game. Your computer is about 5 to 6 years old technologically... Can you imagine playing Quake III well on a pentium 1? Seriously?
Hate to be or sound so forceful or sarcastic... but PC gaming has always required you to upgrade to play games well at the worst every 5 years...
2 Ghz is too slow, you need closer to 3 Ghz at least. 4 Ghz is recommended. Try overclocking
4650 HD Radeon 2gb vram,
4gb ram
It's a pretty old comp, but I don't see how my specs are relevant since I can play modern games, and I should ideally be able to play NS2 very smoothly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What kind of quad core are we talking... Is it a C2Q or an iCore? In general those specs are below the low end for what you need to run NS2...
Seriously, there is something really wrong with the way game decides what to render and what not, it seems to me that engine draws everything in front of you, regardless if there is a wall or not.
On all low, ns looks like early 2000 game with the exception that I don't have even static shadows, but with addition of specular highlights (wish we could turn those off as well).
And it doesn't even have physics aside from ragdolls... and no decals. So I have not idea what's my MHzs are used for.
On all low NS2 definitely doesn't look like a 2000 era game, the texture res is way too high for that. Also its not the rendering that is causing the isues, it is purely the game code being written in lua and the communication of lua to c++ that is causing the slowdowns on old rigs. You simply need lots of Ghz to be able to run it...
I didn't meant year 2000, but the first half of last decade. Was keeping Doom 3 and Unreal 2/UT2003 in my mind. NS maps reminds me of those very much.
Still, looks/performance ratio on all low is kind of disappointing.
By the way, is there a way to get wireframe view in game ? Like, on my own server with sv_cheats. I'd really love to see how mane polys some things use and what exactly is rendered at any given moment.
4650 HD Radeon 2gb vram,
4gb ram
It's a pretty old comp, but I don't see how my specs are relevant since I can play modern games, and I should ideally be able to play NS2 very smoothly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're trying to make a point, yes, but it's untruthful to not specify what the modern games are, what performance you get, or on what resolutions.
Your PC unfortunately needs some upgrade money dumped on it, this is not an optimization issue as much as an actual "modern game" running on an old PC.
By the way, what are the benefits of this for players? First thing that comes to mind is mods, but what about the vanilla game?
cheats 1
r_wireframe true
<!--quoteo(post=2063358:date=Jan 19 2013, 09:42 PM:name=xen32)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xen32 @ Jan 19 2013, 09:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2063358"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->By the way, what are the benefits of this for players? First thing that comes to mind is mods, but what about the vanilla game?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The game being release this early :P
It is very fast to prototype stuff with a small team using lua
r_wireframe true<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, clipping works much much better then I would expect it to work. Nice.
Tho I always wondered why there have to be those things inside eggs, if there is no way to see them besides rotating third person camera while evolving.
<img src="http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/1890/2013012000001.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
And while we are talking about optimization. If I'd make a low-poly structures mod, would I be able to use it on any server (like skins) or consistency checks won't allow me to do so?
Tho I always wondered why there have to be those things inside eggs, if there is no way to see them besides rotating third person camera while evolving.
And while we are talking about optimization. If I'd make a low-poly structures mod, would I be able to use it on any server (like skins) or consistency checks won't allow me to do so?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah the occlusion is pretty good, those embryos inside the eggs are there because the game will get more visuals (translucent eggs for example)
I think models similar to materials will pass consistency checks... I've created something called NS2 Pixel (very low res textures ie: 2048x2048 -> 32x32), which pre-build 200 did help a bit with hitching, but didn't give more FPS. lower poly models might help though, although as I said the game code is more of an issue, not the rendering. Unless you are severely GPU bottlenecked...
Still, looks/performance ratio on all low is kind of disappointing.
By the way, is there a way to get wireframe view in game ? Like, on my own server with sv_cheats. I'd really love to see how mane polys some things use and what exactly is rendered at any given moment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ns2 with low settings(with reasonable resolution of course) looks definately like Doom3.
I think models similar to materials will pass consistency checks... I've created something called NS2 Pixel (very low res textures ie: 2048x2048 -> 32x32), which pre-build 200 did help a bit with hitching, but didn't give more FPS. lower poly models might help though, although as I said the game code is more of an issue, not the rendering. Unless you are severely GPU bottlenecked...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yup the graphics of this game are not what cause the late game slowdown. I think it's mostly all the infestation/entities/fighting you got going on. Which is why lowering all settings to the lowest does not yield much performance increase. Especially when you got aliens controlling the entire map and put crags, whips etc all around it with the marines spamming grenades etc etc. At that point the quality of visuals goes out the windows and it is all game coding.
Here's an excerpt I took from one of Hugh's article on NS2 Lua
"Natural Selection 2 features very, very complex 'game logic.' Power grids, resource systems, tech trees, asymmetrical sides, multiple creatures, structures, and abilities. An accessible language like Lua means the relatively small Unknown Worlds team can create relatively complex game logic in a short space of time.
Lua, then, brings benefits and drawbacks to the table.
Right now, Lua takes up around 50% of the CPU cycles that NS2 goes through to produce ever frame. This is, on its own, almost entirely responsible for the limited framerates that people experience when playing in the NS2 Beta. Rendering in Spark is actually very fast. This is why turning down graphics options, or playing on a more powerful GPU, yields negligible performance benefits."
So yea I do not think the team could have finished writing such a complex game if they used anything other than LUA but it does have it's drawbacks. That article is from April 2012 so things have probably improved since then but in the meantime I think upgrading is the only option to get better performance.
Hugh said in one of teh Q&A that they wanted it so when you looked around as an egg, the worm thingy moved with you and if you stopped looking around then the worm stopped moving too so marines wouldn't know you were a live egg.
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lua-scripted_video_games" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lua-...ted_video_games</a>
I love the infestation though and it is a large part of why this game is unique as well as the other entities that are not static. Plus they can extend the game by bringing content to us much more easily and efficiently with Lua. However the drawbacks are still there which means players with weaker CPUs will find playing hard and tend to be frustrated. Game performance is a priority for them and they are always working on it but it will take time.
okay... ahm... so... ... ... i am stunned right now,
i always thought that they where going a lonely way with this lua thing
and the lack of performance is because of their vanguard role...
but right now, i can feel the power of money in form of manpower and manyears again :((
it looks like only carmack is the only one man army out there :/
now count how many entities (the buildings etc) both sides have combined, and theres your awnser.
start a single game, go alien. awsome fps.
now spam cysts in your hive and keep spamming. your fps will start to take a nosedive at a certain point. All entities.
Still, looks/performance ratio on all low is kind of disappointing.
By the way, is there a way to get wireframe view in game ? Like, on my own server with sv_cheats. I'd really love to see how mane polys some things use and what exactly is rendered at any given moment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doom 3 used forward rendering meaning it barely had 2 lights in a room for performance reasons. NS2 uses deferred rendering and has tons of pixel lights dotted around everywhere. You probably can't name another game that has as many lights as this game has. Even Uncharted 3's graphics don't match up to this technically.
Also, the amount of polygons in a scene probably hasn't been particularly relevant since about 2004. The amount of shadow casting lights is a bigger issue.
All those crappy console ports you play are using tons of tricks to get decent visuals (some still even use lightmaps like Batman: Arkham City, which means the lighting is static and can't be changed) compared to NS2's engine.
now count how many entities (the buildings etc) both sides have combined, and theres your awnser.
start a single game, go alien. awsome fps.
now spam cysts in your hive and keep spamming. your fps will start to take a nosedive at a certain point. All entities.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But if the code is compiled why should this even be a problem? I don't see how Lua can cause the game to run slowly unless it requires a runtime with a huge overhead.
Lua is compiled by NS2?