Build 236 has ruined NS2_docking
baconbits
Join Date: 2013-01-17 Member: 180124Members
Join Date: 2013-01-17 Member: 180124Members
Two major changes have ruined this map.
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Old version<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro-->New version<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
1. East wing
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Used to be an easily harassed extractor point for aliens and made it a nuisance for marines but still useful.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro-->Now the extended hallway from terminal to east wing, the removal of the window passage way, and the high view over the open hallway to departure makes harassing it nearly impossible. Marines now control the right hand of the map without contest.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
2. Courtyard
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->With constant harassment on east wing and bar by aliens courtyard's resource was usually defaulted to aliens to become their 4th/5th semi-contest resource.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro-->Without courtyard's node aliens can barely hold 4 resource sites (usually just 3). While marines control everything else.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
With eastwing's new setup marines can focus hard through bar on locker room and without any consequence to the eastern half of the map. This generally leads to early marine control of locker and harassment on maintenance. This ultimately gives them control of the majority of the map and makes an alien comeback very difficult.
Both of these changes have huge negative effects for aliens on a map that was arguably one of the most balanced on NS2.
Please return the map to normal. Victory was easily attainable for both sides in the previous version, now its greatly slanted in marine's favor.
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Old version<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro-->New version<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
1. East wing
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Used to be an easily harassed extractor point for aliens and made it a nuisance for marines but still useful.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro-->Now the extended hallway from terminal to east wing, the removal of the window passage way, and the high view over the open hallway to departure makes harassing it nearly impossible. Marines now control the right hand of the map without contest.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
2. Courtyard
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->With constant harassment on east wing and bar by aliens courtyard's resource was usually defaulted to aliens to become their 4th/5th semi-contest resource.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro-->Without courtyard's node aliens can barely hold 4 resource sites (usually just 3). While marines control everything else.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
With eastwing's new setup marines can focus hard through bar on locker room and without any consequence to the eastern half of the map. This generally leads to early marine control of locker and harassment on maintenance. This ultimately gives them control of the majority of the map and makes an alien comeback very difficult.
Both of these changes have huge negative effects for aliens on a map that was arguably one of the most balanced on NS2.
Please return the map to normal. Victory was easily attainable for both sides in the previous version, now its greatly slanted in marine's favor.
Comments
Aliens need to use speed to advance and attack early in the game but this is effectively stopped with the vast mobility of marines on this map.
Done :)
East wing is now a lerk/skulk paradise for sure, the entire area around the RT is full of places to hide and ambush, and its a much longer run for marines then it used to be, I predict it will be nearly impossible for marines to hold.
New cafe is a viable, if still not great hive due to its closeness to terminal hive location, before you could shoot it from too far away and kill it easily so if you had to take cafe it was basically an auto loss.
Aliens should never be able to hold courtyard for long. The only reason they could ever hold it was due to incompetent marines. Its easy to shoot the rt from a distance when running from terminal, and if marines hold locker, its impossible for aliens to hold the courtyard rt against being shot from the upper level.
The new vent from locker to maintenance makes holding that RT much easier then before.
I was actually going to make a post at some point that docking is now ridiculously biased to aliens and that maybe they should considering putting landing pad RT back in.
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Old version<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro-->New version<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
1. East wing
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Used to be an easily harassed extractor point for aliens and made it a nuisance for marines but still useful.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro-->Now the extended hallway from terminal to east wing, the removal of the window passage way, and the high view over the open hallway to departure makes harassing it nearly impossible. Marines now control the right hand of the map without contest.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course they should control east side of the map easily. Think about it, they removed landing pad RT, then they have no RT till they get to 2nd techpoint, Cafeteria. Only East Wing is their only possible resource node. I find your argument unfortunately really absurd. Even Aliens get at least 1 or 2 more free nodes, Stability/Maintanence(next to ball court), they used to have 3 when ball court had also its own node.
1. East wing
<!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro-->Now the extended hallway from terminal to east wing, the removal of the window passage way, and the high view over the open hallway to departure makes harassing it nearly impossible. Marines now control the right hand of the map without contest.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
2. Courtyard
<!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro-->Without courtyard's node aliens can barely hold 4 resource sites (usually just 3). While marines control everything else.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. East wing's redesign was made with Aliens in mind for the most part, I don't see how you can think that it's any more marine biased than it was before. The RT positioning was designed in such a way that it's now more feasible for aliens to hold in the early game. There is also a lot more cover for aliens to ambush from now. You also did not mention that Departures redesign, which was essentially a buff for aliens because marines must now commit to pushing through one hallway or another, instead of camping those two cramped corridors leading out of the hive that have been removed.
2. Courtyard RT was simply end game res inflation, it was not needed.
You also left out that the changes to Cafeteria. These changes make the techpoint viable to take for aliens as a second hive now that it can't be Arc'd from Terminal. And also that the shortcut to Locker Rooms hive from courtyard has been removed, making it a longer travel time to rush or harass for marines.
So as I said, most of these changes were made with aliens in mind, because some areas of the map were too marine biased, or because they limited expansion options for aliens in the early/mid game. Claiming that the map is more marine biased now is laughable.
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Old version<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro-->New version<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
2. Courtyard
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->With constant harassment on east wing and bar by aliens courtyard's resource was usually defaulted to aliens to become their 4th/5th semi-contest resource.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro-->Without courtyard's node aliens can barely hold 4 resource sites (usually just 3). While marines control everything else.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, isn't it even so more than enough that aliens have 3 nodes constantly? 4-5 nodes without threat always mean that aliens are winning the game! I assume you're adapted on alien dominating and overpower on docking and complain about its balance now. Sorry again, but this is really absurd.
You say you think that free 3-5 nodes for aliens on either Generator or Locker Room are balanced, and that sounds no more or less than absurd.
Comparison, early game :
Marine's available node : (East Wing), Terminal, Cafeteria
Aliens's available node : Generator, Maintanance, Locker Room, Stability, (Tram Departure)
In NS2, Marine should have more rts than aliens, so that aliens should keep pressure on their rts with their mobility. But in Docking, aliens get even far more close and safe nodes than Marines. Even 4~5 still! And it was even 7 when Ball Court and Courtyard had their own. I still find this argument really unuseful and absurd.
No, we decided on these changes in light that it would help Aliens with Departures and Cafeteria as well. Courtyard giving Aliens a free 4/5th RT very easily is just bad. Otherwise the rest of the changes were aimed to help aliens. And in Map Testing, we found this to be true.
You clearly don't understand the game if you think Aliens need 4-5 RTs in order to stay competitive in a match. And unless you're just running on the ground as a Skulk in departures/east wing.. you should find that it's more travel time for Marines to hit that Hive.. more cover for aliens, and a better area for Lerks to fight in. All of which lead to it being more alien favored.
It's going to be addressed afaik.
Locker Rooms should be ARC'able from Bar, if that is what you're implying.
Bar is a room that contains the closest RT to that Alien hive, is the most straight forward Marine approach pathway, is directly accessed from the Hive and can still be assaulted via the vent.
If Aliens can't, or don't, hold down Bar, they deserve to lose Locker Rooms. Key map points shouldn't be nerfed just because they're key.
Bar is a room that contains the closest RT to that Alien hive, is the most straight forward Marine approach pathway, is directly accessed from the Hive and can still be assaulted via the vent.
If Aliens can't, or don't, hold down Bar, they deserve to lose Locker Rooms. Key map points shouldn't be nerfed just because they're key.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i was talking about the courtyard/maintenance hall corner where it takes marines 5 seconds to run to from their spawn and defend the arcs
You clearly don't understand the game if you think Aliens need 4-5 RTs in order to stay competitive in a match. And unless you're just running on the ground as a Skulk in departures/east wing.. you should find that it's more travel time for Marines to hit that Hive.. more cover for aliens, and a better area for Lerks to fight in. All of which lead to it being more alien favored.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
5-6 RTs is how aliens<i> can</i> outplay marines once they've locked down 3 tech points. As it is with only 2 hives aliens can't take more than 4 RTs. I don't mean 4 uncontested I mean 4 period, there is no option to even contest a 5th.
Every single map until now gave aliens at least 5 RTs as an option to at least try and hold. It's not just to try to win the economy against a multi-base marine either, it also helps when marines try to lock down one of the aliens more obvious resources to keep the game going rather than starving the aliens at 3.
Aside from that, I like the changes. Yeah East Wing is a bit more of a trek, but that's true for both sides. It's a much nicer and roomier area now though. The Courtyard res node was really an abnormality, and I could see why they removed it. The lack of a res node means both teams will use the center of the map to transit through, which makes for a more interesting game imho.
Every single map until now gave aliens at least 5 RTs as an option to at least try and hold. It's not just to try to win the economy against a multi-base marine either, it also helps when marines try to lock down one of the aliens more obvious resources to keep the game going rather than starving the aliens at 3.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Locking down 3 tech points is a dramatic advantage for either team. You shouldn't expect to be on even footing in that situation.
Of course not, but I expect to be able to play through it at least some of the time. If you can take and HOLD all the exterior res nodes it should be enough to get up some higher lifeforms and a lot of extra defensive structures and push through to capture the third. Without even the possibility of fighting over enough nodes to win the resource game even while the other team wins tech your just stuck on the wrong end of a bad snowball.
<b>Step 2</b>: Demand that the dogs who made this game, undo all their changes.
<i>Seriously, you don't have to place step 2. I'm pretty sure people are smart enough to get the point without you being inadvertently rude.</i>